Suggestions and Requests

Do you want a game which is enjoyable to play due to the game mechanics.
Or do you want a historical respresentation for the AI to play alone?
Protip: False dichotomies generally aren't useful.

Someone has analyzed the Egyptian layout before and it's surprisingly intelligent, though if you really want it gone, the upcoming implementation of the big map should fix the Egyptian problem as the AI seems to do well when given large swaths of terrain to settle
 
Egypt is ranked something like 130/190 for GDP per capita, so this is fine. Anyway, if you need it for the UHV, aren't you already winning?
 
Some people are really taking this whole social distancing a bit too far smh.
 
Someone has analyzed the Egyptian layout before and it's surprisingly intelligent

For all the reasons I had laid out, I still strongly disagree with this.

Really like half of all my issues with this mod come from the fact that the AI is hilariously incompetent at settling cities. Not really even the mod's fault, the AI was awful at settling in vanilla too, although to a lesser degree. Honestly, I really do wish the AI would just select from a list of pre-determined spots and settle there, but I know never in a million years will Leoreth do that, so I'll stick to worldbuildering the map to something more sane every time after finishing autoplay.
 
For all the reasons I had laid out, I still strongly disagree with this.
Go play Civ5 then, if you just want to sit on four cities half a continent away from each other for the entire game.
 
I'm more interested in the possibility of something like influential culture allowing a city to work the third ring of culture, or maybe unlocked by a wonder, than arguing over minimum separation distances between cities, on the new map.
 
I'm more interested in the possibility of something like influential culture allowing a city to work the third ring of culture, or maybe unlocked by a wonder, than arguing over minimum separation distances between cities, on the new map.
That won't happen.
 
Everything you said before seems to indicate the opposite.

No, I don't believe so. I don't like when the AI founds cities with coast tiles as their only "food" while also capturing no resources. You are misinterpreting my issue.
 
No, I don't believe so. I don't like when the AI founds cities with coast tiles as their only "food" while also capturing no resources. You are misinterpreting my issue.
And yet you chose Egypt as example, a civilization renowned for its bountiful floodplains.
 
Disregarding the annoyance, of lack of potential for (clusters of) cities or the penalty for razing (some of) them.

I believe it is fair to say some cities are consistently rather underwhelming. Arguim being one of them.

Arguim itself in my games usually serves the purpose of being a safe haven for ships that disrupt my piracy. It would be nice to have some kind of (additional) mechanism in the game that would increase the value of cities over time that does not rely on the yields of the location of the map.

For example: an increase in citytile yield for every n turns you own the city.
Or: a configuration of cities that gives a bonus (perhaps even to the entire empire). In which the ´problemcity´ is one of the very few necessary possibilities. (eg the trianular trade on the atlantic ocean for Arguim specifically, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_trade )

(or even more simple; an increase in revenue for certain cities through the companies mechanic (eg double or even triple the conversion of trading goods in conjunction with less culture required or perhaps even less trading resources required)
 
There is no issue with close cities, I actually find them to be preferable in resource dense areas. Europe, for example, is much more compelling with densely packed cities. It makes conquest, culture and city building more interesting, not to mention it plays better historically. Conquering Italy should take a series of sieges of its dense cities while conquering Russia requires long marches to more sparsely placed cities. The variation is why non-DoC civ always feels lacking, no matter what mods you are using. Mind you, a Russian city working the maximum allowed tiles is likely less effective than a Venice and Milan working half the amount of tiles due to terrain and resources. The penalty for razing cities and stability mechanics are an effective deterrent for players trying to re-make these dense areas into super cites.

Your issue is not with one-tile distant cities but with "useless" cities. I've seen a handful myself. I think the solution is to work on game mechanics to reflect their real life utility rather than having sparsely populated super-cities.
Regarding Arguim, one mechanic I would like to see added is an overhaul of navies. Power in the period of imperialism was safeguarded by navies and navies were supplied by ports. A Portuguese player should have a vested interest in grabbing supply ports to protect their trade routes from Malacca to Arguim. When playing America, there is no incentive to controlling the Pacific islands when in reality they were vitally important to American interests. There should be a mechanic for naval re-supply where ships only get x amount of turns on the open sea before they must dock in a port (except for caravels). Failing to make it into a friendly port in time will cause the ship to become lost at sea. Perhaps there should be some gold penalty associated with open borders docking so that you have a vested interest in establishing your own ports. Therefore if I control the Arguim, I actually make money off of all the European ships sailing around the African coast that dock there. This would offset the maintenance cost of an otherwise useless city. Perhaps there is a way to work in an international trade route mechanic as well so that you can purposefully disrupt trade routes through naval dominance. Or maybe a new colonial "trade ship" unit that automatically travels between two selected cities and maintains foreign relations or allows trade routes from colonial cities. Lets say Portugal, for example, picks up Malacca and Macao from their trade company. A Portuguese player would want to build or capture cities in coastal Africa, Arabia, and India to fill out the trade route. Otherwise they'd need to cozy up to those empires and pay to use their ports to complete the trade route.

I think trade resources are currently very well represented by this mod, however trade mechanics could use overhaul when possible.
 
And yet you chose Egypt as example, a civilization renowned for its bountiful floodplains.

Sure, I chose Egypt because it's AI has a problem with handling the land around it.

Spoiler :
upload_2020-4-23_23-22-33-png.553278


Specifically I was referring previously to Akhetaten, which captures no resources not already captured by a previous city and works no valuable unworked tiles. Other notable offenders include Mut and the city to the west of Alexandria, who also capture no new resources or valuable unworked tiles and have to take other tiles from already productive cities just to do anything at all. Selima technically captures the cotton but is also of very dubious utility.

If you'd founded these cities in vanilla Civ4, any high level player would rightly call that a poor move for a variety of reasons, and the reasons it's a poor move are made even more prominent by DOC's ruleset.

In any case, I'll cease talking about this because I'm not going to get buy-in from Leoreth. It's rather immaterial if you agree with me or not.
 
In any case, I'll cease talking about this because I'm not going to get buy-in from Leoreth.
I wonder what makes you think that.
 
Your issue is not with one-tile distant cities but with "useless" cities. I've seen a handful myself. I think the solution is to work on game mechanics to reflect their real life utility rather than having sparsely populated super-cities.
Regarding Arguim, one mechanic I would like to see added is an overhaul of navies. Power in the period of imperialism was safeguarded by navies and navies were supplied by ports. [...]

I think trade resources are currently very well represented by this mod, however trade mechanics could use overhaul when possible.

I agree in principle, not sure about the details of your specific suggestions though.

An easy but heavy-handed solution could be to substantially increase unit supply costs.

To make tightly packed cities more valuable, how about several cities can share a given resource if they are only one tile apart? I.e. for the purposes of limited resource supply they all count as one city, not several. To illustrate, let me take Zaddy's screenshot here:

Spoiler Egypt example :
upload_2020-4-23_23-22-33-png.553278


First, assume Alexandria belongs to Egypt too. Second, let's pretend Egypt actually has two Wheat resources connected to its trade network. Third, if that isn't already the case, let's say a single Wheat resource can only supply a single city.

With my mechanic there would basically be three "clusters" of cities that the limited resource supply mechanic would consider to be a single city each instead of several. Currently, two Wheats would only supply e.g. Nwt-Rst and Alexandria. What I'm suggesting is that here those same two Wheats would instead supply the three cities on the Mediterranean coast as well as the Nwt-Rst, Abw and Akhetaten triangle, assuming neither Selima nor Mut have a decent amount of culture. Instead of 8 cities the resource assignment algorithm would only see 3 here, so only one "city" (actually a group of two cities in this example) would go without Wheat instead of 6.

If that's too contrived or complicated to code, we could just use distance maintenance as a shorthand instead, so all cities whose distance maintenance cost is below a certain threshold (let's say 0.5) would share the resources of the capital or the nearest city with an Administrative Center.

If we look at that Egyptian screenshot again as an example, I would imagine it like this: In the beginning only Akhetaten and Abw would share Nwt-Rst's resources. With jails in place, Pi-Ramesses and Mut could be supplied from the capital too. Finally, if Egypt even lives that long with this setup, Alexandria would join the party when it completes a Courthouse. That is to say, the radius around a Palace or Administrative Center within which any cities would be supplied with that city's resources for free would be 2 tiles at first (so only within the BFC), then 3 tiles with Jails, and finally 4 tiles with Courthouses on top of that.

Specifically I was referring previously to Akhetaten, which captures no resources not already captured by a previous city and works no valuable unworked tiles.
Akhetaten is a port which should pay for itself with the Great Lighthouse and can work two good tiles.

Other notable offenders include Mut and the city to the west of Alexandria, who also capture no new resources or valuable unworked tiles and have to take other tiles from already productive cities just to do anything at all.

The city west of Alexandria puts additional culture pressure on the Spartan Fish, and again pays for itself with the Great Lighthouse.

Selima technically captures the cotton but is also of very dubious utility.

Selima is doing fine.

If you'd founded these cities in vanilla Civ4, any high level player would rightly call that a poor move for a variety of reasons, and the reasons it's a poor move are made even more prominent by DOC's ruleset.

IIRC high level vanilla Civ4 players are all about cottage sharing in the early game to get a rich Bureaucracy capital up and running. The unhealth from the flood plains punishes cities that grow too big, making it more attractive to have several small cities instead of few large ones.
 
I wonder what makes you think that.

Typically posts where you agree with the need for change, you like them. You didn't like my posts so I assume you didn't feel it was that big of an issue. I know the settler AI is extremely complex and difficult to get the AI to arrive at more intelligent outcomes. So, my suggestion was mostly a brute-force method which I know you're not a fan of.

With regards to your replies, Imp. Knoedel, I've already previously discussed with others if that city placement is intelligent or not and they supplied mostly the same responses. Forgive me, but I'm going to decline to talk about it more because I don't think we're going to reach agreement.
 
Oh, I didn't know my likes were so highly scrutinised. Only in the bug report thread I specifically like posts to acknowledge I have noted the bug report. Beyond that I wouldn't read too much into it.
 
The recent discussion thread suggesting Shia Islam be added got me thinking about how minority religions are represented in the game. Would it be possible to add a mechanic that determines/shows a rough percentage for each religion in a city instead of each religion being equally present? I don't think it would be worth doing just for one religion to be added, but I think it could also improve the representation of other minority religions like Judaism. It could also allow for a distinction between a minority non-state religion and majority for things like stability calculation and UHVs. Not sure if it's worth it if it would be a pain to implement, but I think it could be a cool feature.
 
I considered this when I changed religion rules, but I think this level of granularity only complicates things with very little gain.
 
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