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Discussion in 'Civ4 - Road to War' started by vidimce, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. obliterate

    obliterate Warrior Monk

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,305
    Location:
    Melbourne, #fiftychat
    Finland did hold off Soviet Invasion, and actually gained a bit off land (all be it with the help of the Germans). So they can't be that bad.
     
  2. krokodil

    krokodil Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    pow is not nessesarili extermination camp, every country involved in ww2 had pow camp even USA. We need that option to turn on or off, to sattisfy all players, ofcourse its even much easier not to make it at all and satisfy only those players who believe its not good to have it implemented in the game but in that case this game would be less simulative as it could be with pow camps.
     
  3. Jaythekiller

    Jaythekiller Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Ajaccio,Corsica,france (Europe)
    and to be more simulative unique building of Germany should be extermination camps wich give -1 jew/turn :D.
    In France we've got a proverb saying "better is the enemy of good" wich means you can't always make things better and sometimes you must leave things like they are because it won't be good to change them in any way
    By the way my grandfather went to a nazi camp(and survived happily for me and my family)and i can't afford with the idea of POW in a game and i assume you can understand that ;)
     
  4. krokodil

    krokodil Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    thats a point if u cant afford to have pow thing in the game then toggle it

    off, this should be for those who wants to play war simulator. Maybe u

    shouldnt even play this game where u move ur armies and killing other armies

    wich is even worse then pow camps. fyi my countrymen suffered

    extermination camps more then any other countries in the world, and my

    grandfather as well survived all the way through Berlin tho he never been

    captured in pow camps. I also wish there were no pow camps and no armies

    to kill ppl but unfortunately for all of us they were reality of ww2. Thats

    exactly why i would like pow camps to be introduced to this game where my

    red army can dash for enemy pow camp and rescue ur grandfather and

    others. This is reality wether we want it or not, and if there are few players

    that cant accept it let them toggle off that option and not for them to

    decide for rest of the players not to have that option at all. Obviously this

    could be pain for programers to add extra features but extra hard work will

    make this game even better with more options for those players who would

    apreciate it and like to see simulate game at all 100%.
     
  5. Dale

    Dale Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,986
    Other players might not be able to decide for other players if pow's are in or not, but I bloody well sure can!

    NO POWS! I've been over that before.
     
  6. sangeli

    sangeli Major General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    How about directional fortification for units (especially infantry)? I think that would be a good way to stimulate realistic fighting because, as Road to War already is, most fighting is in cities. If directional fortification is implemented, then it would be more rewardable for the AI and players to make lines of defense (many of you say "look at the maginot line" but I can assure you that even the Germans believed in lines of defense) thus stimulating realistic warfare. With directional fortifications, it allows flanking to be effective. I have many more suggestions that are essentially corrilaries to this and thus need not be stressed now, but if you are interested just ask me :)
     
  7. Metz

    Metz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    New "civic": Camps.

    You may build camps with workers on any tile and depending your camps give the following bonuses depending on which civic your using.

    Camps:

    No Camp = No bonus. Low maintenance.

    Labor Camp = +3 hammers to nearest city. Low maintenance.

    Death Camp = -50% war unrest, +2 gold to nearest city, +1 happiness to all fascist cities of your civilization. Medium maintenance.

    Soviet Gulag = -50% war unrest, +2 hammers to nearest city, +1 gold to nearest city. Medium maintenance.
     
  8. sangeli

    sangeli Major General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    1. Unit Direction - Pretty straight forward, every unit is oriented in a certain direction. Attacks from the flanks give the attacker a good bonus. Obviously, there needs to be a way to pick the direction of your units like a rotate button. For units in cities, they have no direction. The benefits for unit direction are well worth the cost, at least in my opinion.

    2. Military Control - During war, whenever one of your units occupies another countries territory, it becomes yours until the enemy takes it back, even if the original unit is no longer on the square. This is so the AI is not so content in just waiting in cities.

    3. Unit Fuel and Ammunition - There is already a unit fuel mod, I think it would be good to take advantage of it. Ammunition would work the same way as fuel does in the mod, except its for all units and it uses copper and iron. Combined with suggestion 2, it makes encirclement an option and forces the AI not to give up ground so leniently.

    4. New units - A medium tank unit, two types of mobile artillery/anti tank artillery, improved marine, and an improved paratrooper. Most notably of all of them is mobile artillery because they were used extensively throughout the war as a tank destroyer, and I think the current tank destroyer is inadequate. All obsolete/old tanks should have the ability to be upgraded to mobile artillery.

    5. Concept research - AsioAsio in his World War Two mod did this well. One you definitely need is "Blitzkrieg/combined arms warfare". Before researching blitzkrieg (Germany starts with it obviously), you can't use combined arms in attack (you have to use single units) and tanks can only go the same speed as infantry. With this implemented in the game, you don't need to completely overpower Germany. Germany thus has a relatively easy task in defeating France but later on in the war it makes the task for Germany much harder. This really isn't concept research but each Civ should start the game knowing different techs, for example the USSR should start the 1939 scenario ready to research medium tanks.

    6. Techs spawned by Event - I think that a number of techs should not be researchable before a certain event. Notably, the Blitzkrieg tech should be spawned by the fall of france. After that, all countries can research Blitzkrieg. Also, presuming sloped armour is changed to Medium tank, which it should, Germany cannot unlock that tech, and thence the Panther, before the invasion of the Soviet Union. Likewise, many techs cannot be unlocked by the United States until they enter the war. There are probably more to think of but I think that is a good start.

    7. Special Units - There should be certain units that only a certain civ can have that don't fit into any catagories. For example, the panzergrenadiere should only be available to Germany.

    8. Unit Bonuses - There should be a myriad of bonuses for each unit. For example, heavy tanks should be only as strong as medium tanks but get a bonus vs. tanks because they had thicker armour. All German tanks should get a bonus against regular artillery because in early Blitzkrieg doctrine, one of the tanks primary jobs was to destroy field artillery. However, in order to have this artillery needs to be broken into seperate catogaries: field artillery and anti-tank artillery.

    I don't expect you to implement any of these suggestion, but I do hope you at least read and consider them before saying no.
     
  9. Karjala

    Karjala Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    Hello! Its very good mod but this thing troubled me.

    Finland should join Axis when they invade Soviet Union with Germany at June 1941.

    I was playing with Finland in Europe 1939 scenario with historical settings.
    SU was quickly crushed by Axis and myself after this victory conditions say I need eliminate 6 rivals or win by score. Both impossible because I cant go on war with anyone :(

    In WWII Finland was allied with Germany and let them use their territory to attack SU. Finland also received lots of material support from Germany.
    United Kingdom declared war on Finland at December 1941.
    They did not join to fights againt Finnish troops but along with United States they send lots of material help to Soviets.
     
  10. Fin Imperial

    Fin Imperial Monarchist

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Kingdom of Finland
    Otherwise it would be good, then again, it would lead to war with Norway!? (Unless germans took them down before) Also, UK and USA would pretty much be gathering troops to attack Finland, which is completely strange. Anyway, on my opinion, Finland was as much as an Axis state as Siam.
    (Did I write that right? English ain't my first language)
    PS. Perhaps Finland would join Axis with 1944, during Ryti-Ribbentrop agreement, and if Germans would be losing too much area, the Lapland War would begin.
     
  11. rhinoman

    rhinoman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    32
    Ok I played this game as the albanians recently. I played on settler as I thought I was going to be quickly conquered by Italy anyway. Heres what hapened...
    1. Built an infantry
    2. Built an Artilery
    3. Built Tank
    4. Started building a battle ship until...
    5. Spy destroyed my wells
    6. Buit a worker to build new well
    7. Built other stuff cant remember what
    8. Right on time Italy declared war
    9. Italtian Air force and 2 battleships destroyed army within 3 turns
    10. Italian air force continued pounding on until Noember 2 1940 never alowing me to have a unit for 1 turn
    11. November 2 the Italians finaly sent in one paratrooper and defeated me.

    Why did it take them that long?
    My city was completly undefended.
    Was the AI that stupid that they couldnt load a unit into a transport and conquer me earlyer.
     
  12. rhinoman

    rhinoman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
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    32
    I agree POW's wouldn't add much to the game, Would bog it down and would be somewhat offensive.

    How about a little Notification in historical play that is activated by certin events but is no more controled by the player than vichy france is controled by germany. For example if Russia counquered It's share of poland and poland is dead their is a possibility that a pop up will come saying "Katyn Forrest Massacre commited" and would give some datails it would have no affect on the game but it's respectful to acnowlege the war crime. Same idea would go with Key Holocaust events and Japanesse genocides. I just feel that is respectful to mention them but dissagre about allowing a player to lead POW's around having them build railroads and disbanding them over key war crime citys.
     
  13. danrh

    danrh Chieftain

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    Jan 11, 2008
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    Location:
    Port Hedland, Western Australia
    Well it was the Italians after all :mischief:

    Yes he AI is that stupid.

    Dan
     
  14. danrh

    danrh Chieftain

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    Jan 11, 2008
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    Location:
    Port Hedland, Western Australia
    While I do agree with Dale on the POW issue I wouldn't mind seeing the capture of an enemy city provide the player with a free worker unit.

    Dan
     
  15. rhinoman

    rhinoman Chieftain

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    Jan 19, 2008
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    In the add on pack 2 at least albania (if it's still alive) does not join the allies. Mabye this should be fixed as they probaly would have joined the allies had they survived to the german invasion of poland. The best way to ballence the russians is to lower their infantry strength and give them less of a navy but give them citys to siberia and enhance the winter.
     
  16. rhinoman

    rhinoman Chieftain

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    Jan 19, 2008
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    32
    Nah would be kind of pointless as europe starts out basicly fully improved. Youd end up with lots of workers with nothing to do. This improvement would not be worth having the couple of players becoming offended.
     
  17. rhinoman

    rhinoman Chieftain

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    Jan 19, 2008
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    main reason that they held of the solviet agressions was that their troops rocked at winter warfare compared to the solviets. For the finnish in the axis debate they wernt really in the axis but perhaps germany could have a easyer time getting open borders from them.
     
  18. rhinoman

    rhinoman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
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    32
    Because the african campaign in this mod is almost all on plains and grassland. It wouldn't be worth it
     
  19. Dale

    Dale Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
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    With Finland, because of the German AI sucking at finishing Norway, they weren't included as an ally, but they do have open borders with the German alliance.

    I did test it as an ally, but UK/CA/US/USSR pounded Finland from both sides, leaving the USSR stronger against Germany.

    So I changed it to how it is now. Gameplay will always trump reality.
     
  20. danrh

    danrh Chieftain

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    Location:
    Port Hedland, Western Australia
    A special forces/commando unit could be implemented using the bombard function. These units could be invisible (25-50% chance on being detected by infantry type units) and only be able to attack via the bombard facility this way they could be modelled as weak (small team v a brigade/division should never be anywhere close to fair) but able to inflict damage through precisely targetted attacks. Just a thought.

    Dan
     

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