SUL4: Training Day for Emperors
- Thread starter Sullla
- Start date
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Ihmotep: Erik Mesoy is going away for the week, so you are subbed back IN at your old spot. That means you will be up next after I finish tonight. Going to do my critique and play right now.
LK: I'll have my GOTM8 report up soon, with luck by Sunday night (that's my pet project for this weekend). I'll be happy to discuss the game with you then in the GOTM forum.
LK: I'll have my GOTM8 report up soon, with luck by Sunday night (that's my pet project for this weekend). I'll be happy to discuss the game with you then in the GOTM forum.
Whazzza?I just came by to check in....I haven't played Civ3 since that last turn I played on this one...
I'm far from being ready to play Emporer still partly cause I'm not a serious gamer and other things to do (making a Risk game for mirc
)If you REALLY need me to fill in for a turn or 2 I will but I'll probably do more harm then help
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Tried to post this last night but the forum was down.
Critique for Ziggy:
250AD: Oh no, we've fallen back in time 500 years!
I know you meant to put 750AD, but it still amused me. The decision on Akkad is solid not to move it. The decision had to be made NOW, before any more shields were put into it. And in all honesty, it needed to be moved back earlier since we've already put too much into it at this point. If we have some wastage around our FP, well that's just life. I think we're in a good enough position to live with it. On signing ROPs... be careful. It locks us into 20 more turns of peace for a relatively small gain. In this circumstance I think it's a good move, but we will probably want to take out one of the civs on the other island with cavs in the short time before rifles are discovered. Always think about this when signing ROPs. 320g for Chemistry? Proves for the 1000th time that it's cheaper to buy than to research techs yourself. Going for Smith's? 
Bigtime weed. I'm gonna pull out the imp: icon on you here. With the cascade in full force, we have NO chance to get it. And Smith's has very little power on a small, island map anyway. It would get us back about 30g/turn. Is that worth 600 shields? I just think it's a waste. I would have said this regardless, but time bears out what I said as correct anyway.
760AD: Good trades made this turn. Unless you are planning an attack, always use your excess luxuries to your advantage by trading them. It will make the AI civs happier, but so what? On Emperor, they have no trouble keeping their people happy anyway, so you may as well benefit from it. Sparta on Palace is fine - just remember that it's going to get swapped to WALL STREET, not Smith's.
770AD: I can't keep track of every single build each turn; I'll look over all the cities at the end to see if any changes need to be made.
790AD: (Sigh) We turned research off this turn? It never should have been on for that tech! The AI always goes for Economics; they love Smith's! I have yet to see a game in which they skip it. And what's the deal with the one scientist? Let me say this again: We are not going to get any non-optional techs with a 40-turn scientist!!! If you want to do the 40 turn thing, go for Printing Press/Free Artistry since the AI actually skips it sometimes. Using the scientist on Physics?
800AD: The AI civs all have Metallurgy. So why didn't you buy it?! NOW is the time to turn on research and go for Military Tradition. We've got a VERY narrow time frame here to pull off an attack, and every turn is critical. Even if we weren't attacking, we should go for that tech anyway because cavs are so critical in every way. More luxury deals... with so many trades going on, we will have to break a deal if we want to attack. That's something I'm going to have to think about as I don't usually like to do that. I'll be playing it by ear on my turn.
810AD: What, you though that because the AI civs had no gold they weren't researching? They usually are putting 80-90% into science at this point, so it looks like they have little gold but it's all just going into research. This is an Emperor game, remember. Did you actually think they would just avoid Smith's for the 30-odd turns we would need to complete it? Suffrage will be getting built in 30 turns! Remember the fast pace of the game in tech; this isn't a Regent game here. They aren't trading for it; one civ is researching it, causing the price in beakers to drop, which causes another civ to get it, which drops the price again... and they all have it right away. It's the same thing we use to buy into techs at work, just tech devaluation in action.
820AD: Angry? Well, I don't want to say "I told you so", but... I do recall saying something like "DON'T try to build any wonders" earlier in this game, no?
Hmmm, looks like Sulla's not talking out of his @ss all the time here! On the topic of defense, we're really weak at the moment. The AI is horrible at seaborne invasions, but I'm still a little concerned by the paper-thin quality of our defenses. Perhaps instead of attacking, we should sit back now and build ourselves up until tanks come along? That's not a bad route either.
Comments: You should have bought Mettalurgy a long time ago and started research into Military Tradition instead of wasting gold researching Economics at 1st civ prices. Looking at what our cities are producing, I don't see anything that needs a fix. Some good choices there, at least. We're in an interesting situation: we have few shields, but a ton of gold coming from our cities. It is actually better to rush things in a lot of locations rather than build them, which will take forever. Kind of weird; factories should change that somewhat.
I can't play my turn at the moment, because I want to hear the opinion of all the players in the group. Do you want to try a cav rush against one of the other civs (probably India, they're weakest) at the moment, or sit back and turn our continent into a true model of production and then blitz everyone at the end of the game with tanks? We can do either one. At the moment, we are nowhere near our infrastructure build, and I'm a little bit hesitant to go over to military. Which way we want to go will completely determine how I play my turn, so I want to hear from the players involved. Opinions?
Critique for Ziggy:
250AD: Oh no, we've fallen back in time 500 years!
I know you meant to put 750AD, but it still amused me. The decision on Akkad is solid not to move it. The decision had to be made NOW, before any more shields were put into it. And in all honesty, it needed to be moved back earlier since we've already put too much into it at this point. If we have some wastage around our FP, well that's just life. I think we're in a good enough position to live with it. On signing ROPs... be careful. It locks us into 20 more turns of peace for a relatively small gain. In this circumstance I think it's a good move, but we will probably want to take out one of the civs on the other island with cavs in the short time before rifles are discovered. Always think about this when signing ROPs. 320g for Chemistry? Proves for the 1000th time that it's cheaper to buy than to research techs yourself. Going for Smith's? Bigtime weed. I'm gonna pull out the imp: icon on you here. With the cascade in full force, we have NO chance to get it. And Smith's has very little power on a small, island map anyway. It would get us back about 30g/turn. Is that worth 600 shields? I just think it's a waste. I would have said this regardless, but time bears out what I said as correct anyway. 760AD: Good trades made this turn. Unless you are planning an attack, always use your excess luxuries to your advantage by trading them. It will make the AI civs happier, but so what? On Emperor, they have no trouble keeping their people happy anyway, so you may as well benefit from it. Sparta on Palace is fine - just remember that it's going to get swapped to WALL STREET, not Smith's.
770AD: I can't keep track of every single build each turn; I'll look over all the cities at the end to see if any changes need to be made.
790AD: (Sigh) We turned research off this turn? It never should have been on for that tech! The AI always goes for Economics; they love Smith's! I have yet to see a game in which they skip it. And what's the deal with the one scientist? Let me say this again: We are not going to get any non-optional techs with a 40-turn scientist!!! If you want to do the 40 turn thing, go for Printing Press/Free Artistry since the AI actually skips it sometimes. Using the scientist on Physics?
800AD: The AI civs all have Metallurgy. So why didn't you buy it?! NOW is the time to turn on research and go for Military Tradition. We've got a VERY narrow time frame here to pull off an attack, and every turn is critical. Even if we weren't attacking, we should go for that tech anyway because cavs are so critical in every way. More luxury deals... with so many trades going on, we will have to break a deal if we want to attack. That's something I'm going to have to think about as I don't usually like to do that. I'll be playing it by ear on my turn.
810AD: What, you though that because the AI civs had no gold they weren't researching? They usually are putting 80-90% into science at this point, so it looks like they have little gold but it's all just going into research. This is an Emperor game, remember. Did you actually think they would just avoid Smith's for the 30-odd turns we would need to complete it? Suffrage will be getting built in 30 turns! Remember the fast pace of the game in tech; this isn't a Regent game here. They aren't trading for it; one civ is researching it, causing the price in beakers to drop, which causes another civ to get it, which drops the price again... and they all have it right away. It's the same thing we use to buy into techs at work, just tech devaluation in action.
820AD: Angry? Well, I don't want to say "I told you so", but... I do recall saying something like "DON'T try to build any wonders" earlier in this game, no?
Hmmm, looks like Sulla's not talking out of his @ss all the time here! On the topic of defense, we're really weak at the moment. The AI is horrible at seaborne invasions, but I'm still a little concerned by the paper-thin quality of our defenses. Perhaps instead of attacking, we should sit back now and build ourselves up until tanks come along? That's not a bad route either. Comments: You should have bought Mettalurgy a long time ago and started research into Military Tradition instead of wasting gold researching Economics at 1st civ prices. Looking at what our cities are producing, I don't see anything that needs a fix. Some good choices there, at least. We're in an interesting situation: we have few shields, but a ton of gold coming from our cities. It is actually better to rush things in a lot of locations rather than build them, which will take forever. Kind of weird; factories should change that somewhat.
I can't play my turn at the moment, because I want to hear the opinion of all the players in the group. Do you want to try a cav rush against one of the other civs (probably India, they're weakest) at the moment, or sit back and turn our continent into a true model of production and then blitz everyone at the end of the game with tanks? We can do either one. At the moment, we are nowhere near our infrastructure build, and I'm a little bit hesitant to go over to military. Which way we want to go will completely determine how I play my turn, so I want to hear from the players involved. Opinions?
someone.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Anyone else? I'm not playing this game tonight, since GOTM8 stubbornly refuses to finish for me. It's ending TONIGHT, if I have to stay up till 3am (although I did that last night trying to finish it....)
Ziggy
Very Displaced Canadian
Re: the whole weediness/wonder thing...guilty as charged My only defense (admittedly a poor one is i really thought the AIs would go down the military route rather than all 3 of them researching economics! least i learned ...i won't be making same mistake again
As for what to do next...i agree with your picture of our situation....i frequently found it much better to buy stuff than build it....as i said i probly spent approx 4 THOUSAND gold on my turns just on that and we STILL have 1000+ gold...commercial trait seems just sick in this regard..i like it
I guess we should think about an invasion soon..this mean the next few players will need to get us a navy...we currently have ONE boat if i recall correctly...this should give us some time to build up our infrastructure...some of our bigger citys are one bank/uni away from running out of things to build anyways
My vote is actually for the Egyptians as A) they are biggest...B) they have heaps of island citys which they will have trouble reinforcing...and C) they have my wonder
My only defense (admittedly a poor one is i really thought the AIs would go down the military route rather than all 3 of them researching economics! least i learned ...i won't be making same mistake againAs for what to do next...i agree with your picture of our situation....i frequently found it much better to buy stuff than build it....as i said i probly spent approx 4 THOUSAND gold on my turns just on that and we STILL have 1000+ gold...commercial trait seems just sick in this regard..i like it
I guess we should think about an invasion soon..this mean the next few players will need to get us a navy...we currently have ONE boat if i recall correctly...this should give us some time to build up our infrastructure...some of our bigger citys are one bank/uni away from running out of things to build anyways
My vote is actually for the Egyptians as A) they are biggest...B) they have heaps of island citys which they will have trouble reinforcing...and C) they have my wonder
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
The crowd seems to be in favor of a war with cavs and not waiting for tanks. That's fine, I can live with that. I'll play the turn and have it up by this time tomorrow night.
I'll play the turn and have it up by this time tomorrow night.egil
Chieftain
Silly web site you got is "exeeded its daily transfer"
And I was enjoying reading your Deity game...
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Yes, since I have a freeware geocities site the bandwidth is extremely limited and tends to bust out at some point in time almost every day. 
The good thing is that it is reset every hour, so if you check back later it should be running OK (with luck...) Now if anyone wants to pay me $9.99/month, I can get enough bandwidth for the site to stop crashing. 
The good thing is that it is reset every hour, so if you check back later it should be running OK (with luck...) Now if anyone wants to pay me $9.99/month, I can get enough bandwidth for the site to stop crashing.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
(0) 850AD Too much time has passed since the last turn in this game, and for that I apologize. I have been busy, but that's still no excuse. The common voice from the team seems to be to prepare for a war using Cavalry, so I will work to that end in my 10 turns. Production looks good in most cities; I only change Thermopylae to a musket since a Colosseum is not needed and we need to upgrade our defense. WAY too many SWORDS guarding cities. Actually, this turn will probably be spent just getting our defense back into shape. We'll see. I get Metallurgy from Egypt for 180g and Incense - practically nothing, in reality. Research switched to Military Tradition, available in 4 turns at +50/turn.
(1) 860AD Athens builds musket, starts another for Delphi. There is a caravel with a knight inside floating around; to what purpose, exactly? Well, we can use both of them later, though not at the moment. They return to safe port. I begin a major shuffling of forces as vet hoplites go to cities with barracks to be upgraded to muskets while knights start moving to a concentration point near Sparta. Regular hoplites and swords will be disbanded as I build new vet muskets to replace them.
(2) 870AD Research pulled back 10% with no loss in research time, netting an extra 60g. That's almost enough for one hoplite -> musket upgrade all by itself! We have 4 banks, so I rush one more so that Sparta can build Wall Street. We are now officially broke with 18g in the bank, but I expect that to grow rapidly after I turn off research. We need more workers too, so I plan to pop some out when some of the current builds complete.
(3) 880AD Bank completes in Delphi and we now have 5 turns remaining on Wall Street in Sparta. I hold off on the upgrades this turn to get up to the 1000g we need for Wall Street to be fully effective. Major weed from a previous turn: a stack of 8 workers just chopped down a jungle tile that is in the 21-tile radius of NO cities. That gets chalked up to Ziggy; HUGE waste of our workers' time. I unfortunately didn't catch it until after they finished. There are two other jungle clearings going in next to Knossus when the city is using an unworked grasslands tile. *sigh* Well, with 1 turn left to go on the jungle clearings I have to let them complete, but this has wasted well over 100 worker-turns on useless projects. THINK! No other civs have entered the Industrial Age yet, as they chose to detour to Printing Press. OK, go right ahead there, since we're never going to go to a democracy.
(4) 890AD Between turns Cleo DEMANDS 26g and a territory map. We can easily afford to pay it, but there is also no reason to cave into the demands. The AI is horrible at sea invasions, and at worse we will have a "phony war" across the sea. So I hit the "goodbye" button, and we escape without a declaration of war. Looks like the right call in thus case. Military Tradition discovered, research turned OFF, back up to 455g/turn. Do NOT trade away Military Tradition! Often the AI will ignore it completely, giving us a big advantage. And if they research it... no loss on our part. Moscow's growth has slowed, so I check it. Sure enough, it needs a harbor to keep growing at a good pace, so I switch over to it. Other than the demand, it was an otherwise lazy turn without much going on.
(5) 900AD Very little of notice. Next turn I go back over 1000g and can begin the upgrades again.
(6) 910AD The other civs have a new tech to play with, so we get Physics from Egypt for 118g and silks. Just as a side comment: we could EASILY win a diplomatic victory by just sitting here on our island trading, but I think everyone wants to have a little more action. Wall Street in 2 turns.
(7) 920AD More upgrades take place. I rush some workers in our hopelessly corrupt cities. Note: do NOT waste worker turns inmproving this area! Move them to the area around Babylon where they can do some good.
(8) 930AD Wall Street completes, income up to 522/turn. Stay over 1000g at all times to get the benefit. Core cities finish muskets for the last cities in the area, start CAVS for invasion force. (Which will go to factories in industrial age). The area in the south past Ellipi cannot be irrigated until after Electricity is discovered, and is thus useless to us until that point. Do NOT waste turns improving this area. I have set up Lagash and Samara as worker farms that will produce a steady stream of them every 10 turns for improving the former territory of Bablyon. I strongly suggest keeping this system in place. This southern area is really a mess for defense; I have to rush some muskets to get some legit defenders down there and to free up the knights that are still on defense. A bunch of knights are upgraded to cavs, and several other hoplites are turned into muskets. Right now we are producing military in the core cities, and infrastructure in the second core and outlying cities. When we get the ability to build factories, this should switch so that the core builds them while the outlying cities continue the military push. Just a head's up for long term thinking.
(9) 940AD More routine stuff.
(10) 950AD Nothing of great interest.
Here's the big picture. I have reworked our deplorable defensive situation in the south and we are now about 3/4 of the way to having a modern defender in each city. I don't expect our defenders there ever to be tested, but we want to be safe. Also, having a modern defender in each city DOES help to deter AI attacks, since they can see the entire map at all times. The only cities in the south that have barracks are Mycenae and Samarra; after we finish getting up defenders, Samarra should go back to being a worker factory. We currently need defenders only for a couple more cities, and I have almost completely gotten rid of our use of swords for defense. We have 9 cavs already and a few more knights yet to be upgraded. When we have 20, we can invade whereever we so choose; even against rifles knights can kick some serious butt. I suggest going for India because they are definitely the weakest civ and have two luxuries (wines and spices) that we do not. Getting them would bring us to 7 luxuries, which would allow us to run a war almost indefinitely under a Republic. We need to balace military and infrastructure at all times, so when factories come online make sure most of our core cities start them. I will say more on this when the time comes, too. We will want to puke out a bunch of workers when Steam Power is discovered; Athens should go back to worker factory at that time for a little while. We have far more production and income than anyone else, so I don't anticipate much trouble in our upcoming invasion. Feel free to rush a few buildings; aqueducts in cities that are not growing are probably the best use of money; I just rushed them in Knossus and Smolensk since those cities were not growing. Keep cool and keep plugging away and we will walk to an easy domination victory.
The Game: 950AD
Sulla
Ihmotep (indicates no desire to play, so skipped)
Erik Mesoy (away for the week)
Ridgelake <<< UP NOW
MingTheMerciles <<< on deck
Ziggy
(1) 860AD Athens builds musket, starts another for Delphi. There is a caravel with a knight inside floating around; to what purpose, exactly? Well, we can use both of them later, though not at the moment. They return to safe port. I begin a major shuffling of forces as vet hoplites go to cities with barracks to be upgraded to muskets while knights start moving to a concentration point near Sparta. Regular hoplites and swords will be disbanded as I build new vet muskets to replace them.
(2) 870AD Research pulled back 10% with no loss in research time, netting an extra 60g. That's almost enough for one hoplite -> musket upgrade all by itself! We have 4 banks, so I rush one more so that Sparta can build Wall Street. We are now officially broke with 18g in the bank, but I expect that to grow rapidly after I turn off research. We need more workers too, so I plan to pop some out when some of the current builds complete.
(3) 880AD Bank completes in Delphi and we now have 5 turns remaining on Wall Street in Sparta. I hold off on the upgrades this turn to get up to the 1000g we need for Wall Street to be fully effective. Major weed from a previous turn: a stack of 8 workers just chopped down a jungle tile that is in the 21-tile radius of NO cities. That gets chalked up to Ziggy; HUGE waste of our workers' time.
I unfortunately didn't catch it until after they finished. There are two other jungle clearings going in next to Knossus when the city is using an unworked grasslands tile. *sigh* Well, with 1 turn left to go on the jungle clearings I have to let them complete, but this has wasted well over 100 worker-turns on useless projects. THINK! No other civs have entered the Industrial Age yet, as they chose to detour to Printing Press. OK, go right ahead there, since we're never going to go to a democracy. (4) 890AD Between turns Cleo DEMANDS 26g and a territory map. We can easily afford to pay it, but there is also no reason to cave into the demands. The AI is horrible at sea invasions, and at worse we will have a "phony war" across the sea. So I hit the "goodbye" button, and we escape without a declaration of war. Looks like the right call in thus case.
Military Tradition discovered, research turned OFF, back up to 455g/turn. Do NOT trade away Military Tradition! Often the AI will ignore it completely, giving us a big advantage. And if they research it... no loss on our part. Moscow's growth has slowed, so I check it. Sure enough, it needs a harbor to keep growing at a good pace, so I switch over to it. Other than the demand, it was an otherwise lazy turn without much going on. (5) 900AD Very little of notice. Next turn I go back over 1000g and can begin the upgrades again.
(6) 910AD The other civs have a new tech to play with, so we get Physics from Egypt for 118g and silks. Just as a side comment: we could EASILY win a diplomatic victory by just sitting here on our island trading, but I think everyone wants to have a little more action. Wall Street in 2 turns.
(7) 920AD More upgrades take place. I rush some workers in our hopelessly corrupt cities. Note: do NOT waste worker turns inmproving this area! Move them to the area around Babylon where they can do some good.
(8) 930AD Wall Street completes, income up to 522/turn. Stay over 1000g at all times to get the benefit. Core cities finish muskets for the last cities in the area, start CAVS for invasion force. (Which will go to factories in industrial age). The area in the south past Ellipi cannot be irrigated until after Electricity is discovered, and is thus useless to us until that point. Do NOT waste turns improving this area. I have set up Lagash and Samara as worker farms that will produce a steady stream of them every 10 turns for improving the former territory of Bablyon. I strongly suggest keeping this system in place. This southern area is really a mess for defense; I have to rush some muskets to get some legit defenders down there and to free up the knights that are still on defense. A bunch of knights are upgraded to cavs, and several other hoplites are turned into muskets. Right now we are producing military in the core cities, and infrastructure in the second core and outlying cities. When we get the ability to build factories, this should switch so that the core builds them while the outlying cities continue the military push. Just a head's up for long term thinking.
(9) 940AD More routine stuff.
(10) 950AD Nothing of great interest.
Here's the big picture. I have reworked our deplorable defensive situation in the south and we are now about 3/4 of the way to having a modern defender in each city. I don't expect our defenders there ever to be tested, but we want to be safe. Also, having a modern defender in each city DOES help to deter AI attacks, since they can see the entire map at all times. The only cities in the south that have barracks are Mycenae and Samarra; after we finish getting up defenders, Samarra should go back to being a worker factory. We currently need defenders only for a couple more cities, and I have almost completely gotten rid of our use of swords for defense. We have 9 cavs already and a few more knights yet to be upgraded. When we have 20, we can invade whereever we so choose; even against rifles knights can kick some serious butt. I suggest going for India because they are definitely the weakest civ and have two luxuries (wines and spices) that we do not. Getting them would bring us to 7 luxuries, which would allow us to run a war almost indefinitely under a Republic. We need to balace military and infrastructure at all times, so when factories come online make sure most of our core cities start them. I will say more on this when the time comes, too. We will want to puke out a bunch of workers when Steam Power is discovered; Athens should go back to worker factory at that time for a little while. We have far more production and income than anyone else, so I don't anticipate much trouble in our upcoming invasion. Feel free to rush a few buildings; aqueducts in cities that are not growing are probably the best use of money; I just rushed them in Knossus and Smolensk since those cities were not growing. Keep cool and keep plugging away and we will walk to an easy domination victory.
The Game: 950AD
Sulla
Ihmotep (indicates no desire to play, so skipped)
Erik Mesoy (away for the week)
Ridgelake <<< UP NOW
MingTheMerciles <<< on deck
Ziggy
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Our current map:
Japher
Voted for Bush
Just wondering how your shield production in Sevastopol is, being on such a small island...
Jaspher, as you can see from the fact that a marketplace has 85 turns remaining, it has very low net shield production, probably 1 shield/turn.
BTW, I know that I am "up". I will try to play tonight. It may drift into Wednesday night before I can post though. We will see.
BTW, I know that I am "up". I will try to play tonight. It may drift into Wednesday night before I can post though. We will see.
Ziggy
Very Displaced Canadian
Who cares?...we make bunches of $ every turn...whatever they want we will buy it for them
950AD (0) Do the usual preturn stuff. F1 and cycle through every city to see what is what.
Aqueduct rushed in Knossos. Nineveh move pop around to max growth and rush a marketplace. Marketplace in Babylon. These later two cities had 4 happy and 4 unhappy citizens. Next one and they would go to disorder. Not with marketplaces. I wake the knight in Ashur and send him up to Myceana to upgrade. I move citizens around in Mycenea to max trade as a musket is due next turn and its production would be wasted otherwise. Smolnesk changed from a marketplace to an aqueduct so that it will grow. We are wasting 4 foods per turn here right now with max 6 size. Thermo changed from Cav to Harbor. I want it to build vet boats for us, while Sparta/Athens builds cavs.
We definitely need workers around Babylon and Knossos.
Diplo check. I buy Printing Press from Joanie for WM and 100gp. I strongly consider Ghandis proposal of our extra spices. But I consider whether we will be attacking him before 20 turns run out. I think we probably will, with 9 vet cavs already waiting to go; so I dont make a long term trade with him.
Hit Enter
960AD (1) Babylon to courthouse.
Myceana builds another musket. I consider a library (we dont do science) and a harbor (we have a lot of harbors already). I realize that this is one of our few barrack cities, so it should make troops. We definitely need some defensive guys, particularly in our conquered lands. So musket it is.
Knossos to marketplace.
Nineveh to bank. I strongly consider barracks here. But this is a high growth, low shield city. Better for it to get big and produce lots of cash.
Marketplace rushed in Ur. Odessa gets a courthouse. Minos gets an aqueduct.
Probably some minor weed here. But I rush a library in Eridu for 64 gold. With it, we can expand its boarders to include some whales. This will increase its food production to make it a better worker producer.
Workers moved. Muskets placed in Argos, Nineveh and Babylon. Some Knights woken and sent north to Myceana for upgrade.
Diplo check. Nothing real new.
970AD (2) Ur builds marketplace, Bank cued up. This will eventually be a great city with all of its luxuries in its borders.
Minos builds aqueduct, marketplace cued up.
Eridu cues up worker.
Ellipi rushes an aqueduct.
980AD (3) Ellipi cues up marketplace. Sparta builds cav, another cued. Thermo builds harbor, caravel cued up.
Courthouse rushed in Babylon. Aqueducts rushed in Ashur and Smolnesk. These guys are too close to our FP to be sitting at size 6.
990AD (4) Move workers. Bank to Babylon, marketplaces to Ashur and Smolnesk.
The French start on Newton. They have Theory of Gravity, as does everyone else. They also have Democracy. We get both from Joanie for Silks, WM and 610 gold.
1000AD (5) St Pete finishes a bank, musketman cued up. Delphi finishes bank, Caravel started.
Marketplace rushed in Akkad.
Workers moved.
1010AD (6) Akkad starts a bank.. Marketplace rushed in Smolnesk and Knossos. Aqueduct rushed in Sevastapol.
1020AD (7) Our dye deal with Cleo ended. She asked a lot to continue it. I decline momentarily so that I check around for the cheapest available luxury. On the first city build that popped up, I cycle through all the towns to make sure the lost luxury would not cause unrest.
Cleo wants Spices, Furs, WM and 310g for Dyes. Joanie wants 690 gold and WM for wines. I dont check Ghandi because we are gonna go to war with him before the 20 runs out. I go with Cleo.
Bank finished in Argos, harbor started. Workers moved. Smolnesk and Knossos start banks. Sevastapol starts a marketplace.
Marketplace rushed in Ashur, It would have grown into unrest in a couple more turns.
1030AD (8) Bank to Ashur. Harbor rushed in Argos. Marketplace rushed in Minos. Diplo check.
1040AD (9) Barracks started in Argos. It will join the war effort now that its core stuff is built.
Cathedral rush finished in Pharsalos. It will now join the war effort too.
1050AD (10) Move workers. Diplo check. We have an extra incense to sell to Cleo. We get 8gpt, 80 gold and WM for it. I rush finish a marketplace for Ellipi.
Note to next player (Ming), the workers between Thermo and Odessa are irrigating to bring the water over to Odessa. That will help Odessa grow twice as fast.
Note to Sulla, I maintained at least 1000gp throughout my 10 turns, despite all the rushing that I did.
We now have 16 cavs sitting outside Sparta. We still need more defenders in some of the conquered territory. Our navy now consists of 3 caravels, though several more are on the way.
In looking at the potential attack on India, we could hit it from a ton of angles at once, particularly if we can arrange a ROP with France to put some troops on the border. India will fall quickly, I believe.
Aqueduct rushed in Knossos. Nineveh move pop around to max growth and rush a marketplace. Marketplace in Babylon. These later two cities had 4 happy and 4 unhappy citizens. Next one and they would go to disorder. Not with marketplaces. I wake the knight in Ashur and send him up to Myceana to upgrade. I move citizens around in Mycenea to max trade as a musket is due next turn and its production would be wasted otherwise. Smolnesk changed from a marketplace to an aqueduct so that it will grow. We are wasting 4 foods per turn here right now with max 6 size. Thermo changed from Cav to Harbor. I want it to build vet boats for us, while Sparta/Athens builds cavs.
We definitely need workers around Babylon and Knossos.
Diplo check. I buy Printing Press from Joanie for WM and 100gp. I strongly consider Ghandis proposal of our extra spices. But I consider whether we will be attacking him before 20 turns run out. I think we probably will, with 9 vet cavs already waiting to go; so I dont make a long term trade with him.
Hit Enter
960AD (1) Babylon to courthouse.
Myceana builds another musket. I consider a library (we dont do science) and a harbor (we have a lot of harbors already). I realize that this is one of our few barrack cities, so it should make troops. We definitely need some defensive guys, particularly in our conquered lands. So musket it is.
Knossos to marketplace.
Nineveh to bank. I strongly consider barracks here. But this is a high growth, low shield city. Better for it to get big and produce lots of cash.
Marketplace rushed in Ur. Odessa gets a courthouse. Minos gets an aqueduct.
Probably some minor weed here. But I rush a library in Eridu for 64 gold. With it, we can expand its boarders to include some whales. This will increase its food production to make it a better worker producer.
Workers moved. Muskets placed in Argos, Nineveh and Babylon. Some Knights woken and sent north to Myceana for upgrade.
Diplo check. Nothing real new.
970AD (2) Ur builds marketplace, Bank cued up. This will eventually be a great city with all of its luxuries in its borders.
Minos builds aqueduct, marketplace cued up.
Eridu cues up worker.
Ellipi rushes an aqueduct.
980AD (3) Ellipi cues up marketplace. Sparta builds cav, another cued. Thermo builds harbor, caravel cued up.
Courthouse rushed in Babylon. Aqueducts rushed in Ashur and Smolnesk. These guys are too close to our FP to be sitting at size 6.
990AD (4) Move workers. Bank to Babylon, marketplaces to Ashur and Smolnesk.
The French start on Newton. They have Theory of Gravity, as does everyone else. They also have Democracy. We get both from Joanie for Silks, WM and 610 gold.
1000AD (5) St Pete finishes a bank, musketman cued up. Delphi finishes bank, Caravel started.
Marketplace rushed in Akkad.
Workers moved.
1010AD (6) Akkad starts a bank.. Marketplace rushed in Smolnesk and Knossos. Aqueduct rushed in Sevastapol.
1020AD (7) Our dye deal with Cleo ended. She asked a lot to continue it. I decline momentarily so that I check around for the cheapest available luxury. On the first city build that popped up, I cycle through all the towns to make sure the lost luxury would not cause unrest.
Cleo wants Spices, Furs, WM and 310g for Dyes. Joanie wants 690 gold and WM for wines. I dont check Ghandi because we are gonna go to war with him before the 20 runs out. I go with Cleo.
Bank finished in Argos, harbor started. Workers moved. Smolnesk and Knossos start banks. Sevastapol starts a marketplace.
Marketplace rushed in Ashur, It would have grown into unrest in a couple more turns.
1030AD (8) Bank to Ashur. Harbor rushed in Argos. Marketplace rushed in Minos. Diplo check.
1040AD (9) Barracks started in Argos. It will join the war effort now that its core stuff is built.
Cathedral rush finished in Pharsalos. It will now join the war effort too.
1050AD (10) Move workers. Diplo check. We have an extra incense to sell to Cleo. We get 8gpt, 80 gold and WM for it. I rush finish a marketplace for Ellipi.
Note to next player (Ming), the workers between Thermo and Odessa are irrigating to bring the water over to Odessa. That will help Odessa grow twice as fast.
Note to Sulla, I maintained at least 1000gp throughout my 10 turns, despite all the rushing that I did.
We now have 16 cavs sitting outside Sparta. We still need more defenders in some of the conquered territory. Our navy now consists of 3 caravels, though several more are on the way.
In looking at the potential attack on India, we could hit it from a ton of angles at once, particularly if we can arrange a ROP with France to put some troops on the border. India will fall quickly, I believe.
MingTheMerciles
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 4, 2002
- Messages
- 54
Got the note, got the game. I'll wait for critique and play tomorrow night. Sounds like I'll get to complete the invasion force and send it on it's way, nice!
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
950AD: I like the micromanagement check. This far into a game, I'm not willing to go through each and every city to check for food excesses and tile rearranging (I would do it in important cities and those building wonders), but if you're willing to make the effort, by all means do so! It won't be as easy on non-Small maps though. I agree on holding off on trades with India, since we want to have no deals on the table when we start a war. But buying Printing Press from Joan, even for only 100g? We're NEVER going to democracy, since we're going to be doing more fighting, and the only other reason to go for Printing Press is for Free Artistry and Shakespeare's (which we are also never going to build). It's a waste of money, and although not critical, it's still a waste. Don't trade for stuff you don't need as a general rule.
960AD: Mycenae is the only city in that region with a barracks. Muskets was the right call until cities in that area had modern defenders. Then it could be switched back to infrastructure. Nineveh: yes, barracks would be a waste here for now. We'll want them in almost all cities eventually, but for now a bank was more important to up our income for rush projects. Rush job in Eridu is not a waste since we 1) can always use more culture, 2) have plenty of money and get no benefit for letting it sit around over 1000g, and 3) Eridu is NOT a 1/1 city and can get some gold back on commerce. It's about 80% corrupt, but it can get close to 50% with a courthouse. We should consider rushing a courthouse here with our excess money.
980AD: Cities near out FP definitely should not be stuck at size 6 for lack of growth. Getting uncorrupted cities back growing again is priority #1, so aqueducts are good rushes. Cities with about 50% corruption should get courthouses rushed as their top priority, since this increases gold AND shields. Generally speaking, the rush projects were intelligent decisions on this turn.
1020AD: Anyone who understands how to cycle through cities to prevent disorder from the ending of a luxury deal probably doesn't need help in a training day game... Seriously though, looking for a better deal on the luxury is not a bad idea - as long as you are not in a situation where your civ *REALLY* needs that luxury for happiness. Also, be sure that a city is going to complete something or else you can't use this trick. I agree with the call on the renewed deal too, since we should always be ready to trade an unneeded excess luxury over our hard-earned gold. Note to other players: DO NOT make any deals with Gandhi, ESPECIALLY NOT a Right of Passage agreement! We are going to war as soon as we get about 30 cavs and we don't want to have to break a deal to do it.
1040AD: I love this sentence: "Barracks started in Argos. It will join the war effort now that its core stuff is built." This perfectly describes the mindset we should have at the moment.
Comments: If you had not maintained 1000g at all times throughout your turn, it would have earned a major scolding
from me. This goes for everyone else too from now on, OK? We need more workers with railroads only 2 techs away. Start popping them out of various cities between infrastructure builds and in the really corrupt/useless cities. We need more caravels too. We want to land roughly 30 cavs over on the other continent, and although we will have galleons by then (which caravels upgrade to), we will still need at least 7 or 8 of them to get our guys over there. The ones in production right now will probably be enough, with maybe 1 or 2 more. I suggest a big veto stamp on the musket builds in Corinth and St. Petersburg. Ridgelake's use for them was going to be as defenders in captured cities, but they will be too slow to keep up with the cavs. We can always rush defenders over there as needed, and I'd rather have more offense to blitz faster than defenders to secure ourselves. We will hit India too fast for them ever to mount a counterattack. Look at my story in GOTM8 if you don't agree. I suggest switching them to cavs. When Magnetism is discovered, we will enter the Industrial Age and get Nationalism for free. I would normally suggest trading away Nationalism for huige profits, but we are already making huge profits so there's no need to do so, and VERY good reason for denying Nationalism to the other civs as long as possible. Cavs can take out rifles without much trouble in size 12 and under cities, but if they get to sanitation and get size 13+ cities, we will be in trouble. Get moving! We have to start the attack in roughly 15 turns for it to be at peak efficiency. I will add more specifics after Ming's turn. Successful wars are all about good timing. Good luck.
Sulla
Ihmotep/Erik Mesoy (guys, let me know what your status is)
Ridgelake
MingTheMerciles <<< UP NOW (and knows it)
Ziggy <<< on deck
It won't be as easy on non-Small maps though. I agree on holding off on trades with India, since we want to have no deals on the table when we start a war. But buying Printing Press from Joan, even for only 100g? We're NEVER going to democracy, since we're going to be doing more fighting, and the only other reason to go for Printing Press is for Free Artistry and Shakespeare's (which we are also never going to build). It's a waste of money, and although not critical, it's still a waste. Don't trade for stuff you don't need as a general rule. 960AD: Mycenae is the only city in that region with a barracks. Muskets was the right call until cities in that area had modern defenders. Then it could be switched back to infrastructure. Nineveh: yes, barracks would be a waste here for now. We'll want them in almost all cities eventually, but for now a bank was more important to up our income for rush projects. Rush job in Eridu is not a waste since we 1) can always use more culture, 2) have plenty of money and get no benefit for letting it sit around over 1000g, and 3) Eridu is NOT a 1/1 city and can get some gold back on commerce. It's about 80% corrupt, but it can get close to 50% with a courthouse. We should consider rushing a courthouse here with our excess money.
980AD: Cities near out FP definitely should not be stuck at size 6 for lack of growth. Getting uncorrupted cities back growing again is priority #1, so aqueducts are good rushes. Cities with about 50% corruption should get courthouses rushed as their top priority, since this increases gold AND shields. Generally speaking, the rush projects were intelligent decisions on this turn.
1020AD: Anyone who understands how to cycle through cities to prevent disorder from the ending of a luxury deal probably doesn't need help in a training day game...
Seriously though, looking for a better deal on the luxury is not a bad idea - as long as you are not in a situation where your civ *REALLY* needs that luxury for happiness. Also, be sure that a city is going to complete something or else you can't use this trick. I agree with the call on the renewed deal too, since we should always be ready to trade an unneeded excess luxury over our hard-earned gold. Note to other players: DO NOT make any deals with Gandhi, ESPECIALLY NOT a Right of Passage agreement! We are going to war as soon as we get about 30 cavs and we don't want to have to break a deal to do it. 1040AD: I love this sentence: "Barracks started in Argos. It will join the war effort now that its core stuff is built." This perfectly describes the mindset we should have at the moment.
Comments: If you had not maintained 1000g at all times throughout your turn, it would have earned a major scolding
from me. This goes for everyone else too from now on, OK? We need more workers with railroads only 2 techs away. Start popping them out of various cities between infrastructure builds and in the really corrupt/useless cities. We need more caravels too. We want to land roughly 30 cavs over on the other continent, and although we will have galleons by then (which caravels upgrade to), we will still need at least 7 or 8 of them to get our guys over there. The ones in production right now will probably be enough, with maybe 1 or 2 more. I suggest a big veto stamp on the musket builds in Corinth and St. Petersburg. Ridgelake's use for them was going to be as defenders in captured cities, but they will be too slow to keep up with the cavs. We can always rush defenders over there as needed, and I'd rather have more offense to blitz faster than defenders to secure ourselves. We will hit India too fast for them ever to mount a counterattack. Look at my story in GOTM8 if you don't agree. I suggest switching them to cavs. When Magnetism is discovered, we will enter the Industrial Age and get Nationalism for free. I would normally suggest trading away Nationalism for huige profits, but we are already making huge profits so there's no need to do so, and VERY good reason for denying Nationalism to the other civs as long as possible. Cavs can take out rifles without much trouble in size 12 and under cities, but if they get to sanitation and get size 13+ cities, we will be in trouble. Get moving! We have to start the attack in roughly 15 turns for it to be at peak efficiency. I will add more specifics after Ming's turn. Successful wars are all about good timing. Good luck.Sulla
Ihmotep/Erik Mesoy (guys, let me know what your status is)
Ridgelake
MingTheMerciles <<< UP NOW (and knows it)
Ziggy <<< on deck
MingTheMerciles
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 4, 2002
- Messages
- 54
I'll be playing tonight. Goals will be to:
Priority 1-
Complete the invasion force and get them in position for a strike, in one of those SW cities (Akkad? Not looking at the map now. )
Priority 2-
Finish out homeland defense upgrades (as necessary) , get productive cities fully up on infrastructure & low production cities on worker production.
Priority 1-
Complete the invasion force and get them in position for a strike, in one of those SW cities (Akkad? Not looking at the map now. )
Priority 2-
Finish out homeland defense upgrades (as necessary) , get productive cities fully up on infrastructure & low production cities on worker production.
MingTheMerciles
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 4, 2002
- Messages
- 54
Anyone ever see that awful movie Brewster's Millions? The one where Richard Pryor's character inherits millions of dollars but has to spend it all in a short period of time to inherit even more millions. The point is that he gets sick of spending money. Well, you can call me Brewster, cause I'm just about sick of spending money. To sum my turn up, rush rush rush rush.
Here we go,
Pre turn:
Switch St Petersburgh and Corinth to Cavarly
1060: Ellipi finishes marketplace, starts bank
Rush Bank in Ur, Rush Courthouse in Uruk
Cavalry stack moved south to Akkad, the staging ground for the indian invasion.
Workers continue to improve the land.
1070: Ur completes Bank, starts courthouse
Thermopylae completes and starts Caravel
Uruk completes courthouse starts marketplace
Eridu completes worker starts worker
Workers continue to improve the land.
1080:
Trade France World Map + 400 gold to France for Magentism, we learn Nationalism. Nationalism is NOT traded around.
St Pete- Cavalry complete, cavalry start
Pharsalos cavalry complete, cavalry started
Delphi - Caravel complete, caravel started
Rush bank in Ninevah
Rush bank in Myceanea
Rush Barracks in Ur
1090:
Athens - Cavalry completes, cavalry starts
Ur -> Barracks complete, Cavalry started
Nineveh -> Bank completes, Barracks started
Mycaenae -> Bank completes Cavalry started
1100:
Athens -> Cavalry complete, cavalry starts
Sparta -> Cavalry complete, cavalry starts
Bank rush in Moscow
Courthouse rush in knossus
Cavarlry rushed in various cities
1110:
Rush Bank in Akkad
Cavalries complete, cavalries started.
I ran out of steam taking notes on all the rushing, getting tired. Needless to say, I rushed a lot. Here's my basic pattern. Banks were rushed when they were cheaper than 500. Barracks were rushed after one turn of building and after all other necessary improvements through banks were made. Cavalry were rushed when they cost under 200. I stopped rushing each turn when gold went under 1800 or so. This pattern continued through 1150.
Here are the highlights of the other turns.
1120:
Caravels upgraded in Akkad, Cavalry loading into ships.
The first wave of the invasion force launches, 2 gallons launch full of Cavs.
1130: In addition to rushing...
3 more caravel upgraded and cavlaries loaded.
1140: 3 more galleons launch loaded with cavs
1150: Another galleon reaches Akkad and loads. Several more cavarly in route to Akkad.
Summary: There are 5 full galleons approaching the Indian shore. 2 are just outside the cultural border and 3 are about 1/2 the way across. Another Galleon is loaded in Akkad and ready to go. Another galleon is a turn away from Akkad and there will be at least four more Cavs in Akkad ready to go at that point. By my count, that's 28. Should be enough to start. Because... There are 6 more Cavs getting ready to complete this turn with 3 more galleons about 3 turns from Akkad (They're up North, one's about to complete in Purple). Nearly every city worth a damn has a complete set of necessary infrastructure, so they can be devoted to military output.
Start the war when you'd like, you can wait til all 7 ships are close (would be about 4 turns) or go now with the 5 in the ocean and the next 2 as reinforcements. We have Nationalism, none of the others do.
Self critique, with all this rushing, I probably should have rushed some more. We're now making +802 gold/turn. Specifically, I should've rushed more workers out of Eridu and Lagash, like up to every other turn. As it was, I only got a couple of workers from each as I wasn't rushing them the entire time. We still have 1905 gold and that's after rushing 6 cavs, 2 workers, a galleon, a bank, a barracks, and a partridge in a pear tree in 1105....
No map this time. It's hasn't really changed and I couldn't get a good screen shot with the galleons
The game:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/SUL4_1150AD.zip
Here we go,
Pre turn:
Switch St Petersburgh and Corinth to Cavarly
1060: Ellipi finishes marketplace, starts bank
Rush Bank in Ur, Rush Courthouse in Uruk
Cavalry stack moved south to Akkad, the staging ground for the indian invasion.
Workers continue to improve the land.
1070: Ur completes Bank, starts courthouse
Thermopylae completes and starts Caravel
Uruk completes courthouse starts marketplace
Eridu completes worker starts worker
Workers continue to improve the land.
1080:
Trade France World Map + 400 gold to France for Magentism, we learn Nationalism. Nationalism is NOT traded around.
St Pete- Cavalry complete, cavalry start
Pharsalos cavalry complete, cavalry started
Delphi - Caravel complete, caravel started
Rush bank in Ninevah
Rush bank in Myceanea
Rush Barracks in Ur
1090:
Athens - Cavalry completes, cavalry starts
Ur -> Barracks complete, Cavalry started
Nineveh -> Bank completes, Barracks started
Mycaenae -> Bank completes Cavalry started
1100:
Athens -> Cavalry complete, cavalry starts
Sparta -> Cavalry complete, cavalry starts
Bank rush in Moscow
Courthouse rush in knossus
Cavarlry rushed in various cities
1110:
Rush Bank in Akkad
Cavalries complete, cavalries started.
I ran out of steam taking notes on all the rushing, getting tired. Needless to say, I rushed a lot. Here's my basic pattern. Banks were rushed when they were cheaper than 500. Barracks were rushed after one turn of building and after all other necessary improvements through banks were made. Cavalry were rushed when they cost under 200. I stopped rushing each turn when gold went under 1800 or so. This pattern continued through 1150.
Here are the highlights of the other turns.
1120:
Caravels upgraded in Akkad, Cavalry loading into ships.
The first wave of the invasion force launches, 2 gallons launch full of Cavs.
1130: In addition to rushing...
3 more caravel upgraded and cavlaries loaded.
1140: 3 more galleons launch loaded with cavs
1150: Another galleon reaches Akkad and loads. Several more cavarly in route to Akkad.
Summary: There are 5 full galleons approaching the Indian shore. 2 are just outside the cultural border and 3 are about 1/2 the way across. Another Galleon is loaded in Akkad and ready to go. Another galleon is a turn away from Akkad and there will be at least four more Cavs in Akkad ready to go at that point. By my count, that's 28. Should be enough to start. Because... There are 6 more Cavs getting ready to complete this turn with 3 more galleons about 3 turns from Akkad (They're up North, one's about to complete in Purple). Nearly every city worth a damn has a complete set of necessary infrastructure, so they can be devoted to military output.
Start the war when you'd like, you can wait til all 7 ships are close (would be about 4 turns) or go now with the 5 in the ocean and the next 2 as reinforcements. We have Nationalism, none of the others do.
Self critique, with all this rushing, I probably should have rushed some more. We're now making +802 gold/turn. Specifically, I should've rushed more workers out of Eridu and Lagash, like up to every other turn. As it was, I only got a couple of workers from each as I wasn't rushing them the entire time. We still have 1905 gold and that's after rushing 6 cavs, 2 workers, a galleon, a bank, a barracks, and a partridge in a pear tree in 1105....
No map this time. It's hasn't really changed and I couldn't get a good screen shot with the galleons
The game:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/SUL4_1150AD.zip
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