SUL4: Training Day for Emperors

[MingTheMerciles]

Will miracles never cease. I managed to complete a turn without a city in corruption.

Pre turn.

The Cathedral in sparta had completed, that's why it was on Marketplace. No adjustments made.

70 AD - The Russians are eliminated. Anarchy continues

90 AD - Monarchy Starts, Luxury down to 10%, entertainers and taxmen put back to work, science at 0, one scientist in Pharsalos.

After a long decision, decide not to go for Hanging garden in Sparta, and Start a horsie there for the impending upgrade.

India and Egypt have Feud, they want too much $$ (All our gold-170 + 1 per turn), hold off for a couple of turns

110 AD - Workers continue to improve the lands, nothing

130 - Get Feudalism from India for Map and 65 gold, much better.

150 - Athens completes market, starts settler for North island.

170 - Gems online, marketplaces will provide the extra benefits with 3 luxuries online

190 - Thermopylae completes Aqueduct, starts marketplace

210 - Settler completed in Athens, starts horse. Purple completes Harbour, starts Granary.

230 - Horse completed in Sparta, Marketplace started

250 - Workers work some more.

Currently, we're behind on Theology & The Republic. We can get them fairly cheap. I decided against buying them since we're not going for Sistine, and we need to save money for horse upgrades to devastate the babylonians, I held off.

The galley in the picture has the settler and the hoplite is ready to jump on board before the galley moves as well.

Picture

The Game
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/SUL4_250AD.zip

 

[Sullla]

Crtique for MingTheMerciles:

You managed to complete a turn without a city in corruption? Then why are we getting so little production out of Moscow? The word you're looking for is "disorder", and keeping cities out of disorder is a very good thing.

70AD: Russia defeated!

90AD: Your action is correct in putting all entertainers and taxmen back to work at 10% luxuries. We will want all of the tiles worked to maximize growth and shields at this point. But why the one scientist in Pharsalos? There's no chance in hell that the AI civs are going to take 40 turns to research Engineering! That's a waste of production in Pharsalos. And if you were going to make a scientist (which is not the right move here), it should be in a uselessly corrupt city like Mycenae NOT in a productive city only a short distance from our core. Good job putting specialists to work, bad job creating another one that we don't need.

Hanging Gardens in Sparta? WHY would we want the Hanging Gardens? Wonders are NOT all that great in Civ3. This is Emperor, not Regent, remember. Even assuming we could get it (unlikely without a prebuild), would you rather have the Hanging Gardens or 10 horsemen that can be upgraded to knights and set to attack Babylon? I'd rather have a marketplace than the Hanging Gardens in Sparta at this point. Yes, it would help with happiness but frankly it's not worth the cost we'd have to put into it. Early wonders are mostly a no go idea on Emperor/Deity. You are right to hold off on Feudalism until everyone has it; you saw yourself later that this was the right move.

130AD: As expected, by waiting two turns you were able to get a much better deal on the tech. Everyone else whould remember this too: we want to pay last-civ prices all the time unless the tech is too critical to pass up on even for a few turns (techs like Steam Power, Replaceable Parts, etc.)

150AD: Athens completes a market. Good; we need markets more than anything else at the moment. What is Sparta on at this time - horses? I said to build military AFTER all city improvements are finished in a city. Sparta, with all of its commerce bonuses, is crying out for a market. That should have been built immediately after it finished its cathedral. If you had built a marketplace right away, we would have been pulling in an addition 8g/turn each turn for the last few turns. That adds up fast. Building the horses first was a mistake; military always comes after crucial infrastructure when you are preparing for a war (not when IN one, obviously). We do need that settler from Athens though, so good call there.

170AD: Gems online - the gamble pays off!

190AD: Marketplace is 100% correct call for Thermopylae in this situation; helps on both money and happiness. Good job here.

210AD: Athens finishes settler. So why is the settler on just this turn getting into the galley? Don't tell me you moved across the river and lost a turn that way? If the galley wasn't there for the settler, it was a lack of preparation on your part. We've lost 2 turns as a result, whatever the case may be. If another civ grabs the Kiev site before us... well, we'll know that we could have had it if we had been faster.

230AD: For Sparta and the horses, read my above comments.

Commentary: The turn wasn't BAD, but it missed out on a lot of things that could have been done to make it better. Sparta not building a marketplace stands out as the #1 issue. Athens is not configured optimally as well; it's set for shields at the moment. Look, right now we want gold above all else. To get more gold, we need more citizens working more tiles - which means we need more growth in Athens. It is configured for 10 shields/turn so we can get horses in 3 turns. But the horses can't be turned into knights without the money to do so - and it's 80g PER upgrade. Athens needs to get to size 12 ASAP so it can pull in more money for us. So.... you configured Athens well for one purpose, but it was the wrong one. I suggest the next player immediately change it over to the unused floodplains tiles.

Please reassign the scientist in Pharsalos to a tile. And why is a bonus grassland tile up there not being worked by our workers? Please send someone up there to road and mine it. We don't need Republic for now, but we will want Theology because the other civs may be getting more techs beyond it. Get the tech for as cheap a price as we can manage. We need to start research on Chivalry soon, as there's no guarantee the AI civs will research it anytime soon. I learned this to my disappointment in another game. I suggest going at 40% science, which will get it in 18 turns at +8g/turn. Athens should get switched to Library as part of this. Remember that we get three MP under Monarchy (not two); by moving the excess warrior in Athens to Sparta, we can go 0% luxuries! This nets us some much needed extra income. In the same vein, move the unnecessary warrior in Purple to Thermopylae for MP duty. Move some of those unneeded swords down on the Babylonian border back to the core cities for use in MP duty as well. Although we won't discover Chivalry on the next turn, we will want to broker it for some much-needed cash when it is discovered. Babylon will be run over before it has a chance to build sufficient number of knights. Keep cool, keep thinking, and have fun with the game as we progress towards control of our continent.

Sulla <<< on deck
Erik Mesoy
Ridgelake
MingTheMerciles
Ziggy <<< UP NOW

 

[Ziggy]

Preturn 250ad (0)
Athens played with to grow faster as per Sullas request plus it makes sense )
research changed to chivalry
Pharsalos changed to aqueduct (stuck at size 6)..scientist handed a plough and told to get back to work
warriors shuffled around for MP duty
Lux set to 0...science to 40%....chivalry in 18 at +9gpt
Sparta even with 3 MP will revolt once it hits size 12 in 2 turns...i make a note to raise tax back then (or buy the marketplace...not sure which yet)
Make the diplomatic rounds...everyone is annoyed with us...what have my predecessors been up to?
broker around our world map for chump change (every little bit helps) but this doesn't seem to cheer anyone up
we are paying 2 gpt for a ROP with France?...2 turns left and that will be changing!

Between turns ..Kish's borders expand eating up our spice colony (thankfully we still have another source)
Argos looks like a prime candidate for a flip..god i hope not...

260AD (1) Galley on way to island
swords retreat out of new babylon territory
more shuffling of MP troops

270AD (2)
Athens finishes Library...starts cathedral
Sparta has grown to 12...and is unhappy...taxman hired as the marketplace costs 300 gold! (its due in 7 turns)

280AD (3)
Stevastapol goes into civil disorder at size 2 with a MP??
taxman hired and library switched to temple (due sometime next millenium )...on interrigation of the unhappy dude...it turns out he had been whipped...ack..stupid russians
Settler lands on the island (noone else in sight )
remember to cancel the ROP deal with france...she still wants stuff in return for it..so i politely decline
the Ai's have Engineering...best price is 160gold from India...or 130 + wm + Rop...i consider it but decide to save our gold for now..we dont NEED it just yet

290AD (4)
Corinth builds Aqueduct...starts marketplace
Minos founded on the island...starts Library (really had no idea here...so feel free to swap)

300AD (5)
Pharsalos builds Aqueduct...starts marketplace

310AD (6)
Odessa finishes Library...starts Harbor
Athens grows and will revolt...i hire a taxman and rearrange things so it doesnt grow again untill the turn the cathedral is finished (10)


320AD (7) Moscow Builds Library...starts courthouse
an extra MP makes it to Athens and taxman put back to work
Stevastopol has forgotten the evils of the russian regime and taxman put back to work there as well
our scouting Galley spots a possible saebridge to another island near Minos...i ponder doing a suicide run

330AD (8) Sparta builds Marketplace...starts horsemen
Thermopylae finishes marketplace...starts horsemen
we are making 26gpt with civalry in 8...other option is 8gpt with chivalry in 6...i leave things alone so we can afford the upgrades
our galley bravely sails to sea...(fingers crossed)

340AD(9)
our galley doesn't sink...it moves on but still no land...its just a sea highway to somewhere...? (fingers remain crossed)

350AD(10) sparta trains horsman...starts another
our galley sinks

Summary...our money problems are a thing of the past...we have 555 gold and are making 30/turn...next player gets to play spender...there are piles of trades to be made for techs and horses to upgrade in 6 turns (or less if science is upped)
and if and when we get caravels (or the lighthouse somehow) someone go see where that searoute leads...i think theres another island up there

 

[Sullla]

I won't be able to get time to look at the game until late this afternoon; sorry if that causes any waiting.

 

[Ridgelake]

Originally posted by Ziggy
Between turns ..Kish's borders expand eating up our spice colony (thankfully we still have another source)
Argos looks like a prime candidate for a flip..god i hope not...


Summary...our money problems are a thing of the past...we have 555 gold and are making 30/turn...next player gets to play spender...

How are the libraries coming along in Argos and GemCity? We gotta get those up as culture protection. Perhaps we can also rush build a temple in those to help out......

 

[Ziggy]

they aren't built yet..i was saving our $ up for the knight upgrade
i figured if anything flips...we just take it back off them. a gamble yes but it was that or spend $$ on librarys.....have to wait ages to upgrade the knights..and possibly have them flip anyways
i did keep the swordsmen out of the citys so if they DO flip...we didnt loose em

 

[Sullla]

Critique for Ziggy:

250AD: Starting out with a diplo check is always a good first move in a succession game, and a good habit even when loading up from the last save in a single player game. Why is everyone else unhappy with us? Probably because we haven't been trading much recently, and because we are in first place on the histograph. Civs tend to resent you if you're in first place, and they aren't. Why were we playing 2g to France for a ROP anyway? Perhaps an earlier ruler became confused as to who was paying whom on the diplomatic screen.

270AD: A taxman was the right call in Sparta here. Raising the luxury tax would have cost us too much for a very small increase in production in one city only. And you correctly saw that rushing a marketplace would be WAY too expensive. I want to have at a MINIMUM 800g for upgrades so we can hit with 10 knights off the bat. Anything more than that would be excellent.

280AD: Sevastapol in disorder? That shouldn't be happening, but perhaps the Russians whipped it earlier and it is still feeling the effects. That would be the most likely explanation. It's almost impossible to see this one coming, so you won't get my prodding on this one. Ahh, I read further and see that that was the case. It seems I do know what I'm talking about . You should have taken the deal for Engineering; we need that tech to both see how close to muskets the AI civs are getting (determines when attack must be launched) and to cross rivers so our knights can blitz faster. I'm going to have to hope I can get a deal as good now on my turn.

290AD: Right call on Corinth, we probably want a harbor first in Minos. No biggie, as it's not finishing anything anytime soon.

300AD: Good choice for Pharsalos as well; we definitely want marketplaces in every city for both cash and happiness. It's as good as a free MP in each city while also increasing gold 50%. What a great deal!

310AD: Don't slow down Athens' growth! Don't do this EVER! At worst, we can just make another specialist, but NEVER deliberately slow down growth. Growth = power in Civ3, remember. That's a bad judgement call here.

320AD: I see that you got some MP back to Athens though, which was a good move. Make sure we have 3 in all cities that need them. But we shouldn't be using horses for MP though, since they will be moving out soon... looks like I will have some reshuffling to do.

330AD: Let's debate the merits of the science choice you made. By going at the 8-turn rate, we make 16 more gold per turn, for 6 turns. This adds up to a total of 96 extra gold. BUT with the 6-turn rate, we could go 0% science for two extra turns, which would net us 71g/turn, for a total of 94g extra (71 - 24 over two turns). 94 - 96 = -2 gold, indicating that the two are essentially exactly equal. In this case, it didn't matter what you chose, but that's not always the case. Remember to pay close attention to the science slider when researching.

350AD: Too bad about the galley, but as we already saw, a gamble can pay off in terms of contact with the rest of the world. No reason not to try it here.

No comments, as I'm about to play my turn now. Our money problems are not a "thing of the past" though, because we have to save roughly 1000g for knight upgrades! I'm on it though. War will probably start on my turn.

 

[Ziggy]

330AD: Let's debate the merits of the science choice you made. By going at the 8-turn rate, we make 16 more gold per turn, for 6 turns. This adds up to a total of 96 extra gold. BUT with the 6-turn rate, we could go 0% science for two extra turns, which would net us 71g/turn, for a total of 94g extra (71 - 24 over two turns). 94 - 96 = -2 gold, indicating that the two are essentially exactly equal. In this case, it didn't matter what you chose, but that's not always the case. Remember to pay close attention to the science slider when researching.

I have read that over 4 times now and while i get the basic meaning of it...it just turns to greek (or since we ARE greeks...some other unintelligible language ) when it gets specific to this case...If i understand right you are saying that i should compare the gold made over the 8 turns to the gold made over the 6 turns at higher rate + the gold made at 2 turns of 0% sci?..i get that much im just lost where those numbers come from.lol...i should open the game i guess...anyway i see your point though...i think i was just obsessed with us needing LOTS of gold when we got knights and possibly put that too far in front of everything else

310AD: Don't slow down Athens' growth! Don't do this EVER! At worst, we can just make another specialist, but NEVER deliberately slow down growth. Growth = power in Civ3, remember. That's a bad judgement call here.

oops my bad...ill keep that one in mind...least it was really only for 1 turn ...I add that one to the 10 commandments list im making

I agree with you on harbors in the island citys.....hopefully once we buy knights we can get those going

as for when to launch the Babylon war.....I say soon as we get Knights..or else we are going to lose our southern citys to culture flips...even that might be too late..im amazed we didnt lose one on my turns...good luck

 

[Sullla]

(0) 350AD: I first of all get Engineering from Gandhi for World Map, ROP, and 116g. We can now cross rivers without loss of movement. I also can now see that no one has discovered Invention yet; this is very good news as no one is close to muskets yet. We get 32g from Joanie for a ROP as well, which helps a good bit. I also see in the diplomatic screen that Babylon, despite having iron and horses in its territory, doesn't have these resources linked up to their capital! [dance] Knights vs. spears is not much of a fight. Our horses are all over the place, and serving MP time in many areas. This won't do at all; I start moving them around and shuffling MP so that they can prepare for an offensive. Scratch that; I will just up the lux tax to 10% when I'm ready to attack because right now our cities are precariously balanced and really need those horses. Sevastapol onto Harbor, Minos to harbor as well. Purple to courthouse, which it needs more than a granary; maybe after that it can actually contribute something to our civ. Only 7 horses? We need more of that too. I up science to 50% to get the tech in 4 turns, so we can go min science for 2 extra turns and pull in much more cash. With everything looking good, I start the first turn.

(1) 360AD: The time to research Chivalry has dropped to 1 turn, even at min science. That means that the other civs have discovered it. Yep, everyone else has it... and Invention (uh oh). Better speed this attack along or our window of opportunity is going to shut. I'm glad I'm playing this turn, because some very delicate moves are going to be needed here. I turn a citizen in uselessly corrupt Minos into a scientist and go 0% science; we still get Chivalry next turn. I really wish the AI civs had skipped it, so we could have brokered for cash... what can I say, sometimes they go for it and sometimes they don't. We got a little unlucky here.

(2) 370AD: Ur finishes the Hanging Gardens; massive cascade to other wonders. With luck, we can capture it. Unfortunately, we can no longer build cheap horses and upgrade to knights, but have to build them ourselves. I would pillage our iron to build them... but it would take too long to get it reconstructed again. Dicey indeed here. Luxury tax upped to 10%, horses on MP duty start moving to barracks to be upgraded. 5 horses upgraded for 400g. Three more remain to be upgraded. Swords moving into place around Kish.

(3) 380AD: 2 more horses go to knights, only one horse remains (lack of funds to upgrade). Our swords will hopefully take care of the bowmen around Kish, while the knights take the city on the first turn and then punch deep into Babylonian soil. It should take about 4 more turns to be in posititon to attack.

(4) 390AD: More moving of units into position. Last horse upgraded. Our core cities are going onto knight production for the upcoming war.

(5) 400AD: More moving of units. I need one more turn of setup. Babylon has still not connected its resources (THANK YOU!)

(6) 410AD: Last turn pre-attack. We have 9 knights, all vet, in place to attack, supported by roughly 7 swords. Babylon cannot have pikes in any of their cities except Kish, which is next to the iron resource but not connected to the rest of their empire. I'm always a little nervous at this point, but we have prepared as well as we possibly can at this point. Let's hope for some good luck. Next turn...

(7) 420AD: Iacta alea est! We declare WAR on Babylon honorably and attack. We take Kish and RAZE it to the ground, with no losses! I didn't keep it because our cultural borders already occupy pretty much all of that territory, we have lots of overlap there already, I want to increase the war weariness of Bablyon (under a Republic), and I don;t want Bablyon to get the site back in case some wackiness resutls. Nippur captured! Again, no losses but the town has 5 out of 5 guys resisting. Major culture flip risk, but there are ways to deal with that. Mycaenae gets a barracks rushed for healing purposes (it was only 12g anyway!) We come one knight short of taking Akkad as well. The remaining bowmen around where Kish WAS are mopped up by our swords in the area. All told, we lost 1 knight and 2 swords this turn. Those were very reasonable losses, and we will be able to heal all of our hurt knights back to full health as Babylon continues to weaken away under our attacks.

(8) 430AD: Babylon's counterattack isn't worthy of the name. We lose 0 units, lose 0hp, and our sword goes to elite status. Hey, thanks! Hammurabi has also foolishly moved two bowmen into the open where they can be picked off by our knights. We take Akkad! Only one resistor too. Now we need to pull back for a turn and let our injured units heal up a bit. Our front is completely under control at the moment, and things are looking really sweet.

(9) 440AD: India completes the Great Library, to no purpose because Education has already been discovered! Babylon gets in no counterattacks, and it seems their unit of choice is the longbow. That shouldn't present us with any challenge whatsoever. Our captured workers are doing a great job of putting up key roads in tiles that don't have them; make sure to cover them with swords or knights though. 6 of our 9 knights on the front will be back to full health next turn from almost-dead status.

(10) 450AD: Massive hangover cascade from Great Library. Babylon unwisely has its three best cities, Babylon, Ellipi, and Nineveh, stuck on wonder production (?) More power to us! We lost one sword in the Babylonian attack on our weak "recovery" turn. Now it's time to kick some butt! All threatening units are killed, the path is opened to Nineveh for the next turn!

(11 OT) 460AD: We take Nineveh! Sorry, but I had set it up so well, I just had to finish the deal!

No suggestions now, I'm tired and it's very late. I will put them up tomorrow morning. A fantastic success, set up by the entire team! We should all be proud.

The Game: SUL4 460AD

 

[Sullla]

A much better looking world map! [dance]

 

[Ziggy]

WTG Sulla!

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Only... my sister has to get the comp in like 5 mins, :aaargh: so I might take more than 2 hours to post...

 

[Sullla]

Erik, don't play until you read my commentary! I'm sorry if I couldn't get it up last night, but I was just too tired. Here goes...

Mycenae has a barracks in it and should be used for healing purposes. I suggest rushing one in Nippur as well as the front moves forwards. If we need a cheap defender, vet Hoplites can be rushed out of Mycenae for roughly 75g each, which is quite cheap.

We need to watch for culture flips. For that reason, we need to starve each city captured (and yes, we want to capture, NOT raze these cities) down to size 1. Guard each city with only one defender unless it's critical to put more units there so that we only lose one unit in the event of a flip. Nineveh has 9 resistors; don't even try to quell them, just put one defender there and be ready to retake it if/when it flips. We have as much culture as Babylon though, so it shouldn't be a big problem.

Keep our units alive! Hurt ones should go to the closest barracks for healing. Don't leave knights exposed where they can be picked off by longbows; wait for the longbows to come to us and exploit their 1def. When attacking Bablyon, make sure you have a LOT of units, as the AI likes to put 5-7 defenders in their capital. We need about 10 knights to be sure to take it. Swords should be used in a supporting role with knights; protecting hurt ones, defending cities, guarding workers, etc.

Our captured workers in the area should be used to build critical roads where they are missing. On the next turn, they will put a road on the one space missing one between Nippur and Nineveh. This will also bring in incense and allow us to go to 0% luxury rate.

If we get lucky and get a great leader, use it for a Forbidden Palace in Argos, which would be an absolutely enormous boost for us. DON'T use a leader on a wonder unless we get two, DON'T use a leader on an army unless we have quite a few of them. The FP site will save us many, many turns of building it manually if we get a leader.

If we reduce Babylon to one city, we want to get all of their techs in exchange for peace. Then DON'T attack them until the treaty runs out in 20 turns. We are going to play this game fairly and honorably, without violating any deals.

We need to revolt to Republic after the war ends. I don't expect us to get all of this done on the next turn, but this is the direction we should be heading for the future.

 

[Ridgelake]

Sulla, a very nice turn!!!!

Hammi really got !!!!!

If we were first on the histogram before, we have to be there now.

I cant believe that the Babs were so stupid not to connect their resources. Its time to them some more.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Emperor seems easy. Hmmm, I am crappy, so it must be all this setup! Thanks a lot for the setup and for letting me join.

Inherited: 450 AD. Drat, i cannot play here!
turn 1: 460 AD. Histograph: We were ahead of Babs. Only EGYPT was better, but now we lead with like 12 points. I shuffle some troops towards the front. What is the alley between Moscow and Smolensk doing? Ramble, ramble on. Now, I dont quite see the point of rushing barracks in NIPPUR, better in nineveh. I dont even see the point in keeping nippur, too much overlap. More stuff moves, I hit enter.
470 AD: Athens produces Knight, starts another. Smolensk gains culture, nineveh loses a resister, I restarve it, nippur starves. I hook up incence. Check every city manually, the lux tax will stay down now. 2 kinghts attack Ashur, city taken! This gains us some fur. CHeck the rest of the knights. 3hp and lower are sent back to heal, 4hp and better go to attack. Oh yes, I switch mycenae to temple to avoid happiness problems soon- then remember our MP, and switch back, then remember the switch to republic and leave it on temple again. Hit enter again.

The french request an audience to trade world maps. No, that is to be done on my own turn for better brokering.
Babs gain audience. They are so stupid, they refuse to cave to "Our troops approach your cities, surrender now". We havent been kicking them hard enough!

480 AD: Nippur starves, Nineveh starves. I put Nippur (size 1) on worker to get rid of it. An elite sword attacks a reg bowman outside Ashur- GREAT LEADER!!! YAY!! I was thinking Argos, Smolensk or Nineveh. Hmmm... Argos will not be close enough to babylonian land. Smolensk will take some time to be really useful. Nineveh is in danger of culture flipping. I decide on Smolensk. It is 90% corrupt, so it is NOT too close to our homelands.

A big discovery: Babylon must have hooked up some Iron, since there are pikemen in the capital! A knight passing by kills the pikeman, losing 1hp. Turns out Eridu was founded right on a Iron Hill!

Big discovery 2: After killing the pike, Babylon's best defensive unit is a LONGBOW! Didnt you say the AI puts about 10-12 units in the capital??

Big discovery 3: I check back on your report, and you said build the FP in Argos. Luckily the GL had not been used yet.

Hit enter.

490 AD: Resister quelled in Ashur. Set to starve again. Some culture expansions.

An elite knight moves to take Babylon. Military Advisor:
Lord, once again our magnificent armies are victorious!
We captured Babylon fromwhich we "liberated" 17 gold.
And I am honored to report that we now control The Pyramids!
O Great! Install a new governor!

Lord, there are 8 resister in Babylon.

I cannot believe this. The city came with a barracks.

I use the GL to hurry the FP in Argos, like you said. Workers do stuff up north. I decide it is time for some research again, and set research to 40% Invention in 7, still +40 gpt. The new babian capital Ur is in... WLTKD. I see the fireworks. I finger fumble a little, sending the swordsman who made a GL onto a mountain. Oops.

I hit enter again.

490 AD: some knights produced. FP completed in Argos! Invention now in 5 or so, +57gpt. Start a temple for happiness. I smirk a nasty smirk at seeing the babs on a little peninsula now. Spearman and bowman killed in Ur. Shuffle troops to the front, we will want Leo's Workshop to upgrade again to cavalry later. OOOPS I mean we will want another leader to get leos workshop. This was a boring turn. Hit enter.

500 AD: Oops, Civ3 is on crack. Sparta riots! 5 happy, 2 content, 5 unhappy! Oh yes, Babylon culture flips and an Elite knight takes it back with ease. Now only 3 resisters! No GL, though. Troop shuffle.

510 AD: Assault Ur. Elite knight defeats spear, no GL. Same again, no GL. My first loss happens here, lose a knight to a bowman. Attack a defending longbow with a knight. We win with ease, and we now control the Hanging Gardens. This fixes our happines problems, as Ur had Silk. Happines problems are now a thing of the past. Ashur now has no resisters! We have 800 points on Histo!

Hit enter again.
520 AD: Sparta finishes rioting. Troop shuffle towards Ellipi, which is on a wonder. Attack a spear with a (different) elite sword, no GL.

Enter.
530 AD: The resistance in Ur ends! Corinth builds knight. Some resisters die, I keep starving cities etc. A brave knight assaults Ellipi. Spear dead.

Hit Enter.

540 AD: Nineveh riots. TOo many resisters quelled. Argos gains culture. A knight kills a longbow. 2 elites assault Ellipi, the second one takes it! Problem: Infront of us is a 1 square landbridge. It is a mountain, with Bab troops on, as in a reg spear. Fortified for 150% defense bonus. An elite sword attacks anyway, and gains the mountain losing 3hp. Was this weed or a bold gambit which paid off?

Now here is a great example of my micro act: We have 1 turn to Invention here. I turn down science. 1 turn at 35gold to science, 2turns at 16 gold to science for the next two turns. I set slider to 10%, 16 gold to science. Then I check all captured cities and convert to scientists! Invention in 1 turn. Heh. Pretty good micro there, eh?
I hit enter for Invention.

My Last Turn: This shall be a great turn. Unfortunately, nothing great happened, so I make a long writeup.
We lay siege to the Babylonian city of Samarra. The first knight to sally bravely forth defeats a spearman, and turns back again for his tiredness. A knight dies at the siege, leaving the last defender of the city, a Bowman, gravely wounded. Alas, no other knights may attack the city, and the Bowman will heal again ere we may attack.
Then from the south comes a knight, riding slowly towards the city. His horse bears many wounds, and his left arm hangs limp in his armor. He rides boldy up to the very gates of Samarra, inviting the Babylonian cowards to face him. In his pride, the Bowman does, and this was his downfall. For the knight, we found out later, was so harmed that a single blow would have been his downfall. But with such skill did he fight, that he dealt the Bowman wounds which felled him to the ground ere his fourth stroke could be made. For his great valour, the knight was promoted to the highest level.
Translation: Vet knight attacks Samarra, kills a spear. Vet knight attacks vet bowman in Samarra, damages 1hp and dies. I gambit again, and bring up a 1hp knight. He kills the bowman and is promoted to Elite.

Oh yes, and we discovered Gunpowder. THERE IS NOT A SINGLE SALTPETER SOURCE IN THE WORLD!!!! Someone reported a game with No Oil a while ago, but I thought he was joking. This means no cavalry and no Musketmen= Poor France. This game might drag on if someone gets thier hands on Nationalism for riflemen.

Next player gets the fun of mopping up the Babs and building infra for our next assault. India or France?

 

[Sullla]

Critique for Erik Mesoy:

450AD: Yeah, I'm sorry about taking an extra turn. But I really wanted to take that last city, since I had been preparing for most of my turn. I can take 9 turns next time to make up for it, but it isn't a big deal. I'm glad there was no hard feelings.

460AD: Why did I suggest rushing barracks in Nippur? Well, we had this little problem of 9 resistors in Nineveh, which meant that it was going to be a looong time before we got them quelled and could build something. Nineveh also was a major culture flip risk, while Nippur was relatively small. You said you didn't see the point of keeping Nippur, so here's the reasoning. We aren't going to keep Nippur premanently, as it overlaps too much, but we very much needed it while this war was going on. Keeping the city gave us control of the 9-tile radius around the city, which otherwise would have remained in Bablyonian cultual radius. Without this sphere of influence around Nippur, it would have taken more turns to set up an attack on Nineveh, and our knights would have been open to attack from Longbows all the while. With the city taken, we were close enough to take the NEXT city without having to end a turn in enemy territory. This can be taken to ludicrous levels with railroads and 3-move units like cavs, panzers, and modern armor. It's not impossible to take 25 or more cities, WITHOUT a ROP rape, simply by blitzing from city to city. I'm providing an example of this in my GOTM8 writeup, which I hope to have done by Sunday. On topic for the game though, we needed to hold Nippur so that we gained control of the roads in its cultural radius. We will probably want to abandon it after the war ends.

470AD: Good move to keep starving. You notice how control of the roads around Akkad, thanks to a library cultural expansion, allowed us to reach Ashur on this turn? It's the blitz factor again; the AI cannot stand up to a lightning attack with fast moving units that race from city to city. This discrepancy is even more apparent with a 3-move unit like cavalry; I used them in a recent game to take over 30 cities in 8 turns! This was pre-railroads of course. Noticing that the luxury tax could be lowered was also a good move. We will be able to handle a Republic easily now after the war with our luxuries. Temple is a good choice for Mycaenae at the moment, though aqueduct will also be needed soon.

480AD: French trading world maps... At this point, there is very little to be gained from World Map trades. You may as well trade with Joan because you aren't going to get a better deal on your turn, and refusing their offers tends to annoy the other civs. I always do these deals unless there is a specific reason for me to hold off on trading my world map, and by this time in the game there rarely is one. If you wanted to get rid of Nippur so badly, you could have just used the abandon city feature. But then again, another worker is never a bad thing either.

The great leader was a big break for us, but not unexpected since we were fighting a lot of battles with elites. You suggested Smolensk as another possible location; Argos was a better choice though because most of Smolensk is surrounded by water. You really can get uncorrupted production on a small map out to about 10 tiles away; much of this would be just water if Smolensk were the site. Argos is already surrounded by a core of cities: Moscow, Smolensk, Nineveh, Akkad, Mycenae, and Knossus. Smolensk may be closer to the "heart" of the southern continent, but we get a better core of cities from Argos. And a solid core of cities is what you are really looking for in a FP placement. Fortunately you re-read my advice and put the FP in Argos! With your comment on Smolensk: it may be 90% corrupt now, but it would probably get some slight production back under a republic. Remember that corruption changes with government type when making these predictions.

Babylon and iron: They actually got their iron from Kish, the city that I razed on the first turn of the war. Right before declaring war, I saw that they had hooked up their iron. But since it was only up for one turn, most of their spears were not upgraded to pikes. A few turns after that, they finally got a road out to their eastern source of iron. I don't know what's up in their capital there; Babylon must be completely falling apart if they had a pike a LONGBOW defending their capital. Seriously though, they normally pack a ton of units in their capital. I would attribute this again to the speed of our knight blitz; there was no time for the AI to prepare another defender.

490AD: The Pyramids!Hah! Proving once again, somewhat sadly, that it's better to capture than build wonders on Emperor/Deity. The fact that the barracks survived was another stroke of luck (non-cultural city improvements have a 50% chance of surviving a capture).

Research: Uh-oh, here comes the detector. We don't WANT to do research. Isn't the pace of tech fast enough as it is? It will be much cheaper to buy it from the AI civs at last-civ prices than research it ourselves. We want to BUY Invention, not research it! Going for a new tech is one thing. Following the AI on the tech tree when we can easily buy into them ourselves is another thing. Bad decision here.

490AD: (again) Temple is again a good choice for Argos. It needs an aqueduct soon though. In other news... don't expect to get another leader. I play under the assumption that I will get none, so that when I do it is a fortunate break, and not getting one doesn't hurt my strategy. Just a little philosophical point.

500AD: Excellent handling of Bablyon's culture flip. People have a tendency to go crazy when this happens, when all you have to do is calmly retake the city. We definitely didn't want to raze Babylon with its wonders. Sparta: yeah, Civ3 does this sometimes. Or was it the case that Sparta rioted because it lost a luxury resource when Bablyon flipped? There's little you can do about it either way, so I'm not going to prod you on this one.

510AD: Another good capture. Losses are to be expected in war; I'm amazed you went 6 turns without losing a knight. Babylon is really out of gas. Getting optimistic with our chances for a leader, are we?

540AD: A weed move? That depends; did you have another unit ready to attack if the first sword died? If yes, then it was a practical move because we needed to control that mountain sooner or later anyway. If no, then it was rather risky and probably not the best move. Fortunately it worked out for us though. Not like losing that battle would have made a big difference anyway.

Your micromanaging is good, except that we shouldn't be researching in the first place! A little too clever for your own good here.

550AD: Attacking with a 1hp knight? Risky, but I would do the same thing if that gave us the chance to capture the city. Again fortunately, it paid off. Erik, what are you talking about with gunpowder? We discovered INVENTION, which doesn't allow us to see saltpeter! And with all of the desert in this world, I'm sure there's tons of it around our territory. Better check that science screen a little more closely...

Comments: Yeah, this game is pretty much won. We will finish this one though, because ending a game on Emperor can be a challenge, and I think everyone will want to have this one in their HOF. Next player finishes Babylon off; no need for a peace treaty as we can easily buy into techs no problem. We need some production changes in the FP area; some cities are on courthouse that now really need to be converted to something else. Trade for Republic, turn research OFF, and revolt to it when the war ends. Then get set for a long while of infrastructure building as we turn our continent into a production marvel so we can field overseas expeditions in the late industrial/modern eras.

Doesn't this map look beautiful?

 

[Ziggy]

holy cow!...great turn again.....Pyramids!...FP! Hanging gardens too.....gotta like that

no saltpeter?....maybe theres just some under cities somewhere?..i refuse to believe there isnt ANY at all?...this could really suck large otherwise

 

[Sullla]

Ziggy: Erik was wrong in his summary. If you read my comments more closely, you'll see that we discovered Invention, not Gunpowder, and thus still can't see the locations of saltpeter yet. I'll bet a pretty penny that some exists somewhere in our territory, probably quite a few with all of our desert squares.

Sulla
Erik Mesoy
Ridgelake <<< UP NOW
MingTheMerciles <<< on deck
Ziggy

 

[Ziggy]

yep thanks sulla...your comments weren't there yet when i started to type my reply...glad to see that though.....a no guns game woulda been interesting mind you...but im not that sadistic..lol

 

[Erik Mesoy]

OK. Seems I had no really weedy moves. Only a bunch of silly comments.

I researched Invention as everyone else had it, and the price was about 300+wmap at the lowest. Silly me for gunpowder, I bet we have atleast 3 sources. I was apparently on some minor here, but it doesnt seem to have been too serious. Maybe I was too clever for my own good, but the micro there was good practice anyway!

FP: Smolensk was closer to the rest of Babylonian land. Argos was much better short-term. I definitely agree to that. Would Smolensk have been better long-term?

Sword attacking the mountain: I had that same 1hpknight for backup .

Riot in sparta: Babylon had no lux, so it wasnt this. Ashur next to it had- furs, which we already had under Athens. Dunno what happened.

Thanks a lot for letting me join just as you have a great set-up going.

OBTW Ridgelake, think about rushing brax in Samarra. It was size 1 when I took it and had no resistors.