Surrender Summit II: Putin Invited to Washington

"What Dick Morris says" is hardly a secret. His books sell to echo chamber followers in the millions, all the media outlets that pander to right wing crazies quote him as if he were the gospel, wingnuts like MechSalv post his videos wherever they go trolling. That's not "keeping a secret."

So you already knew Trump was asking Putin to intervene before Iran and Israel got into a war? I didn't... All I hear from our esteemed media is that Trump was manipulated and got nothing in return yada yada yada. MS' video is the 1st time I was informed that Trump did get something done at Helsinki and his links are actually informative, like the article by Scott Ritter.
 
By values I meant your ideas about superiority of your government and legal systems.

But that has nothing to do with the leverage I'm talking about. That only matters insofar as it's the reason there is no extradition treaty between the U.S. and Russia, and why turning over a former ambassador to Russia for questioning, for no reason other than Putin hates him, is an insane idea.

What does it mean in practice - can you force Russia to hand over its citizens for interrogation, for example? Or abandon Nord Stream project?
I think you can't and neither threats of sanctions nor other economical pressure won't help here.

I don't care about either of those things. What I care about, and have said I care about several times now, are the ongoing cyberattacks, about which the U.S. government is not doing enough, and which I think the U.S. president should be at least trying to stop. He did not try to stop them, instead he came out on stage and announced that - purely on Putin's word - he didn't believe they were happening.

In the case of hostile actions toward us, you better believe I want my president using whatever leverage he has to in negotiations in order to get them to stop. Maybe it would work, maybe not, but anything is better than adopting the position of the people attacking us. That is unconscionable behavior from a head of state.
 
So you already knew Trump was asking Putin to intervene before Iran and Israel got into a war? I didn't... All I hear from our esteemed media is that Trump was manipulated and got nothing in return yada yada yada. MS' video is the 1st time I was informed that Trump did get something done at Helsinki and his links are actually informative, like the article by Scott Ritter.

Scott Ritter was in the room? The only person in a position to say "Trump got something done in Helsinki," ultimately, is TRUMP. Are you surprised by his claims? If you really want to "get informed" about the many accomplishments of the great Trump there is an entire right wing echo chamber who will be more than happy to tell you how the DPRK has dismantled their nuclear program, Russia has completely reversed every internationally condemned decision they have made, trade wars have made America great, Trump has been awarded the most devoted husband evah award by a coalition of women's groups, etc etc etc.
 
Because Dick Morris has about as much credibility as you and MechSalv put together have. None.
Knowing this piece of poetry carries your own credibility I happen to be somewhat flattered...
 
Every story has usually more then one side to it:

And you can usually count on Dick Morris to provide the side with basically zero factual validity.

The man was wrong so often that he was laughed off of Fox News and had to recover with a YouTube channel. You'll excuse me for not wanting to contribute to his ad revenue.
 
the great Trump

You've committed a grave offense, the full title is Most Eminent And Puissant Majesty, Trump the Brave, The Mighty, The Genius, Hero and Savior, May His Years Be Many And His Realm Increase.
 
And you can usually count on Dick Morris to provide the side with basically zero factual validity.

The man was wrong so often that he was laughed off of Fox News and had to recover with a YouTube channel. You'll excuse me for not wanting to contribute to his ad revenue.
Well it breaks my heart but if 2 cents coming his way from you makes such a big deal I prefer to keep you content.
 
Homophobic insult
You've committed a grave offense, the full title is Most Eminent And Puissant Majesty, Trump the Brave, The Mighty, The Genius, Hero and Savior, May His Years Be Many And His Realm Increase.
I am not sure if this is sign of increased simple gayness or that a half hearted attempt at honest debate has been finally abandoned...

Moderator Action: This is an inappropriate remark to make. Do not make homophobic comments, particularly about other members. 3 points and one-week thread ban. - Bootstoots
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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Scott Ritter was in the room? The only person in a position to say "Trump got something done in Helsinki," ultimately, is TRUMP. Are you surprised by his claims? If you really want to "get informed" about the many accomplishments of the great Trump there is an entire right wing echo chamber who will be more than happy to tell you how the DPRK has dismantled their nuclear program, Russia has completely reversed every internationally condemned decision they have made, trade wars have made America great, Trump has been awarded the most devoted husband evah award by a coalition of women's groups, etc etc etc.

Scott Ritter wrote an article about the indictments handed down shortly before Trump met Putin and how they were politically motivated. Are you challenging his credibility or the person who linked his article? Or both? By shooting MS for being the messenger you're dismissing Scott Ritter too. If accusing MS of lacking credibility is to mean anything, it must mean his link lacks credibility. Thats how it appears so I asked you to confirm that.

Now dont you think Trump had an agenda going in or do you think he just went there to say "hi Vlad"? Of course other people know what they talked about. Netanyahu has an agenda and it involves Russia and Iran. Maybe he wanted Trump to employ Putin in pulling back Iran's involvement and proximity to Israel's border as Dick Morris talked about. The Syrian dictator undoubtedly wants to reduce tension between our forces so Putin probably spoke on his behalf. And of course the situation in NK/SK matters because we need Russia's help, etc. I imagine they had several key issues to talk about, but the media focuses on Trump's performance at the press conference. (I mean the Democrat media, and I'll admit watching the propagandists at MSNBC skews my perception of them)

How dare Trump stand there next to Putin and not call him a liar!

Really? Thats what people are mad at Trump about?
 
the Democrat media

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Tell me more
 
Scott Ritter wrote an article about the indictments handed down shortly before Trump met Putin and how they were politically motivated. Are you challenging his credibility or the person who linked his article? Or both? By shooting MS for being the messenger you're dismissing Scott Ritter too. If accusing MS of lacking credibility is to mean anything, it must mean his link lacks credibility. Thats how it appears so I asked you to confirm that.

I didn't look at his link. I stopped looking at his links after the time I gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried to sit through a seven part series of absolute nonsense from an "engineer" about how the World Trade Center couldn't really be brought down by an airliner. Just like you with your endless runs of "innocent" questions, getting bogged down in any individual post is pointless.
 
I didn't look at his link. I stopped looking at his links after the time I gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried to sit through a seven part series of absolute nonsense from an "engineer" about how the World Trade Center couldn't really be brought down by an airliner. Just like you with your endless runs of "innocent" questions, getting bogged down in any individual post is pointless.

Well I suggest you get over it. After all you are the one with superior knowledge and insight into everything and how us mere mortals can learn anything from you if you deny us the possibility of your all-wise mentorship?
 
Pffffffttt! Everyone knows the WTC was brought down by a UFO called Banghazi commanded by Hillary, Obama, Soros and Hitlers Brain!
 
Well I suggest you get over it. After all you are the one with superior knowledge and insight into everything and how us mere mortals can learn anything from you if you deny us the possibility of your all-wise mentorship?

Suggestion noted. I'd be happy to send you one in return. PM me an e-mail address.
 
Pffffffttt! Everyone knows the WTC was brought down by a UFO called Banghazi commanded by Hillary, Obama, Soros and Hitlers Brain!
Thx for the clarification but lets not get carried away too much...
 
If you're gonna do conspiracy theories, you might as well go all the way.
 
So I clicked on this link to laugh at another edgy bad take from useful idiots, but it actually is making a lot of sense to me.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/08/russiagate-anticommunism-putin-left-foreign-policy

Now, if all Ryan means is: let’s beef up cybersecurity and the like, fine. But he doesn’t really say that. Instead, by seeding the discussion of the 2020 election with all this talk of Russian intelligence and ops, by fanning the political flames rather than settling for quieter, more prudential calls for better cybersecurity, I fear that he underestimates, and perhaps contributes to, the paranoia this kind of argument can generate.

In any campaign, whether the Russians are involved or not, a candidate’s compromising history will be churned up. (Remember the role Jeremiah Wright played in Obama’s campaign in 2008? Or the swift-boating of John Kerry?). In any campaign, there is the possibility of third-party candidates getting boosted by writers, activists, and the like. Once you introduce the Russia question into all this, it becomes almost impossible to distinguish between someone bringing up a candidate’s compromising history as part of normal politics and someone doing that as a Russian op.

Do we seriously want an American politics where good old-fashioned dirty pool — exposing someone’s embarrassing past — is suddenly cast as one element in the potential plot of a foreign power? That seems like not a good way to go.
 
But that has nothing to do with the leverage I'm talking about.
Actually, the leverage (rather, lack of it) was my point. Your original point was that USA and Russia cannot talk on equal terms because your legal system is allegedly superior.

I don't care about either of those things. What I care about, and have said I care about several times now, are the ongoing cyberattacks, about which the U.S. government is not doing enough, and which I think the U.S. president should be at least trying to stop. He did not try to stop them, instead he came out on stage and announced that - purely on Putin's word - he didn't believe they were happening.
You simultaneously believe that there is a collusion between USA and Russia presidents and in the same time one-sided and unprovoked hostile actions from Russia?

Russia's behavior has been pretty consistent throughout my relatively long lifetime.
Generally yes, though not as much consistent as it should be.
 
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