SV Severely Nerfed In BNW - How To Overcome?

[Fish Man]

Only +10% instead of +15% happiness bonus in rationalism; no more free science for universities/specialists right away in that policy tree; 2x expensive spaceship parts; ideologies, GW, and culture messing with running scientists full time without unhappiness as well as detracting from straight-ahead science focus; effectively +20% science costs for 4-city tradition; RAs nerfed to the ground; caravans and guilds messing up my economy strat/build order - it seems like Firaxis is intent on making science victories a lot harder in BNW.

I've gotten the expansion since a year ago, but still can't fathom how to do a sub-t250 sv in any condition. Any tips to overcome the aforementioned challenges?

 

[BBMorti]

What difficulty do you play on? I ask because in a few aspects the highest difficulties are actually best for good winning times. It comes down to them having much more gold.. gold you can loan and gold for RA's.
I am sure you are down with all the stuff about it's important to grow, mountains.
It is also great to have a lot of faith pr. turn.. a strong religion.. to help buy a few key great people at certain times.
In periods before you reach each science building, do all you can to gather gold. Trade gpt for sums of gold, from your friends so you can buy the science buildings right away.
My last SV was with Inca, turn 233 and having all the extra hammers from their hill bias was also a good help, both to 'produce' science and for getting certain things built. Be more than willing to help your friends out with gold to afford new RA's as soon as the old ones run out.

 

[joncnunn]

If you're wanting an earlier Science Victory, play on higher difficulty level where the AIs handicap will keep them up with science longer so you get bigger RA bonsues. Also, internal food cargo ships can provide the capital a lot of food if your cities are coastal and you've gone Tradition.

It is though the case in BNW that both Diplomatic Victory & new cultural victory can normally be completed faster than science.

Happiness for Tradition & Rationalism: Monarchy is the most powerful happiness policy in the game. You'll still need Colosseums & Circus Maximus. This will almost give you enough happiness. Any religious happiness follower belief added to that will probably allow you to skip Zoos entirely. Or since chances are you have 2 policies to spare between Tradition & being allowed to open Rationalism, then if your cities are coastal, open Exploration and pick top right for happiness bonuses from coastal buildings or alternatively open Patronage and then pick Consulates which will raise resting point by 20 points to allow quests to make you friends longer (It also allows building FP which reduces pop unhappiness by 10%)

If you've not gone Tradition (say either Piety or Liberty), then you'll need Zoos everywhere and in addition getting your cities to follow a happiness religious follower belief will be even more important.

In late game, all three ideologies have policies with major happiness boosts. They could remove Stadiums entirely and few people would notice.

But downsize expectations, it was definitely the intent of the developers that peaceful victories to take longer in BNW than they did in G&K.

 

[tetley]

I'm still getting deity domination victories in the BC's on small maps, just like in the days of Civ 3. But on larger maps they nerfed warmonger victories, too.

 

[Uzael36]

One advantage in BNW is with cargo ships and caravans, you can grow your cities larger. I don't really know how fast you can win with vanilla, but sub 250 is certainly doable on a good map.

 

[Fish Man]

With the new guilds and culture buildings change I can't make my culture keep up with policy costs. On a t300 science win I'd have tradition and rationalism completed with maybe a level 3 ideological tenet.

 

[Uzael36]

With the new guilds and culture buildings change I can't make my culture keep up with policy costs. On a t300 science win I'd have tradition and rationalism completed with maybe a level 3 ideological tenet.

That is all you need, policywise. You just need to finish rationalism for faith purchased Great Scientists, and the level 3 Order or Freedom to buy/engineer spaceship parts.

If you are struggling to get those, City States and Worlds Fair can be huge boosts to accomplish those tasks. Just save back a Great Artist and a couple Great Writers before you win the Worlds Fair, so that you can use the Great Artist followed by two Great Writers to take advantage of the 100% culture boost. Making sure you have the culture CS's help a lot at that time as well (and the whole game really).

 

[Acken]

You should try to get more cultural CS allies, working the guilds early and win the world fair.

This should be enough. The most important thing is to get quick secularism for science. Around T125 is really best.

=> Try to reach rationalism at the same time you get renaissance (either through astronomy or acoustics depeding on how soon your next policy comes). I usually use the writer guild to control this (faster = work, slower = don't work).
=> As soon as you are into renaissance grab as much culture as you can through the cultural CS and work your guild (writer + artist). Burn one writer and you should have secularism before T130.
=> A more gimmicky tactic is to simply finish the oracle at the same time you go into renaissance that way you can get secularism right away. But that's risky above emperor because AI usually will build it before T115.

 

[chazzycat]

You should try to get more cultural CS allies, working the guilds early and win the world fair.

This should be enough. The most important thing is to get quick secularism for science. Around T125 is really best.

I like to use 1 writer/1 artist to help get secularism. Golden age to max out culture for 8 turns then political treatise at the end of it.