T&T - Persian trade possibilities

[Rik Meleet]

The Persians have appeared in the Shift-D screen. They have some interesting trades.
Techs: Monarchy & Feudalism, perhaps more.
Maps: TM & WM
Communications: Aztecs & Iroquois & Zulu.

So what can we get and how much would it cost ?

Monarchy + Feudalism + WM + Contacts with all 3 will cost us:
WM + 108 gpt + 480 gold.
WM + 103 gpt + 583 gold.
WM + Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger.
54 gpt + Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger.
22 gpt + 583 gold + Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger.

WM + Contacts with all 3 will cost us:
90 gpt.
58 gpt + 583 gold.
Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger.
WM + 64 gpt.
WM + 31 gpt + 583 gold.
WM + 4 contacts.

Feudalism + Monarchy + Contacts with all 3 will cost us:
108 gpt + 543 gold.
106 gpt + 583 gold.
WM + 108 gpt + 62 gold.
WM + 80 gpt + 583 gold.
WM + Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger + 4 gpt.
WM + Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger + 66 gold.

Feudalism + Monarchy + WM will cost us:
95 gpt.
63 gpt + 583 gold.
WM + 69 gpt.
WM + 583 gold + 36 gpt.
Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger
WM + 4 contacts.

Contact with Aztecs will cost us:
WM
2 contacts
27 gpt
479 gold

Contact with Zulu will cost us:
WM
2 contacts
27 gpt
479 gold

Contact with Iroquois Will cost us:
WM
1 contact
14 gpt
239 gold

That's about it. They value the contacts with the Zulu and the Aztecs the highest and C with Iroquois is not valued so highly. They value the Egyptians as the most worthy contact (though not specified here).

Discuss here. If you want any other possibilities checked; please ask here.

 

[ravensfire]

What would we get from our local civs for contact with the Persians? Are there any other options for Feudalism/Monarchy?

-- Ravensfire

 

[Rik Meleet]

What will the civs we know want to pay for contact with Persia ?

Germany: WM + 2 gpt + 62 gold.
- If we trade Contact + 65 gold; we'd get Monarchy.
India: WM + 12 gold.
Russia: WM + 10 gold.
- If we trade Contact + 47 gold; we'd get Monarchy.
Babylon: WM + 2 gpt + 27 gold.
- If we trade contact + 104 gold; we'd get Feudalism.
Greece: WM + 6 gold.
- If we trade Contact + 30 gold; we'd get Monarchy.
Egypt: WM + 55 gold.
- If we trade Contact + 30 gold; we'd get Monarchy.

What does Persia want for just techs ?

Persia sells Monarchy for:
35gpt.
3 gpt + 583 gold.
9 gpt + WM.
146 gold + WM.
2 or 3 contacts.
WM + 1 contact.

Persia sells Feudalism for:
37 gpt.
5 gpt + 583 gold.
WM + 10 gpt.
WM + 179 gold.
2 or 3 contacts
WM + 1 contact.

Persia sells Monarchy + Feudalism for:
72 gpt.
40 gpt + 583 gold.
45 gpt + WM.
WM + 13 gpt + 583 gold.
4 or 5 contacts.
WM + 3 contacts.

 

[ravensfire]

Thanks Rik!

From my memory of moving the slider around, it would take a fair amount to improve the time to Feudalism. Trading for it immediately would save us 6 turns. Chivalry is next on the list, right?

So, buy Feudalism from Persia for WM + 1 contact (which ever will give us the least $$ for contact with Persia). We then sell it to everyone else for as much as they will give us.
Interesting - Babylon will still do gpt deals with us. Hmmmm.

Do we need Monarchy? The Hanging Gardens have been built - so the only benefit is the Government type. I don't think we need it right now, and can probably get it almost at will later on.

If we have to get Monarchy, buy it from Egypt.

-- Ravensfire

 

[ybbor]

i say we go for evrything for only

WM + Contacts with Egy + Gre + Bab + Rus + Ind + Ger.

 

[Furiey]

I think that the first thing to do is to get contact with the new Civs and we could probably do that by just trading 2 contacts eg:

trade 2 contacts to Persia for contact with Aztecs
trade the same 2 contacts to Aztecs for contact with Zulu
trade the same 2 contacts (or it may only need 1 as Persia will accept 1) to Zulu for contact with Iroquois.

We will then have contact with them all for only 2 of our contacts and if they also know Feudalism and Monarchy the price will be lowered.

I'd then look for the best deal for Feudalism.

 

[GeZe]

maybe a stupid question (I'm new) but what is "WM"

 

[Furiey]

WM = World Map

 

[tao]

IMHO the following simple rules should be considered:

1. Trade away maps between continents. The AIs are willing to pay a lot of money, but it doesn't help them because they can't make contact.
2. Do not trade away contacts, since that deprives us of future trading possibilities.
3. Trade for contacts before trading for techs; techs get cheaper if you know more civs having them
4. It is impossible to poll details of trading sequences, since opportunities will evolve in the steps one after the other. The DP should have freedom and act on his own good judgement.
   [/list=1] I would give map to Persia for contact, then map to new contact for next contact, etc. Try to get tm as part of the deals, even if we have to pay a meager amount of money. Hope that at least one of the new civs lack a tech and we can get the "new world world map" for that tech.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I agree with tao, but only slightly.

We've squandered the contact trading between Greece+Egypt and our continent. We shouldn't squander it this time.
The techs the Persians have aren't very interesting; Monarchy - who needs it ? Feud - it'll be a lot cheaper soon.
I'd suggest to trade Persian WM + 2 or 3 contacts for our contacts (+ perhaps TM or WM; I haven't calculated that trade and now i am NIFOS). Then we contact the other 3 and see what they have to offer.

It seems this is best done in 1 or 2 extra turnchats.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
I agree with tao, but only slightly.

I agree.

We've squandered the contact trading between Greece+Egypt and our continent. We shouldn't squander it this time.

Here I agree, completely.

The techs the Persians have aren't very interesting; Monarchy - who needs it ? Feud - it'll be a lot cheaper soon.

Again I agree. Feudalism will be cheaper in this trading turn. Hopefully.

I'd suggest to trade Persian WM + 2 or 3 contacts for our contacts (+ perhaps TM or WM; I haven't calculated that trade and now i am NIFOS). Then we contact the other 3 and see what they have to offer.

Here I completely disagree. As I said above: we should not trade away contacts. I looked at the save and the most expensive contact are the Aztecs. We could get it plus 2g for our wm. I would do it and then see, what the Aztecs are offering.

It seems this is best done in 1 or 2 extra turnchats.

Is this really necessary?

 

[Rik Meleet]

quote:
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I'd suggest to trade Persian WM + 2 or 3 contacts for our contacts (+ perhaps TM or WM; I haven't calculated that trade and now i am NIFOS). Then we contact the other 3 and see what they have to offer.
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Here I completely disagree. As I said above: we should not trade away contacts. I looked at the save and the most expensive contact are the Aztecs. We could get it plus 2g for our wm. I would do it and then see, what the Aztecs are offering.

quote:
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It seems this is best done in 1 or 2 extra turnchats.
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Is this really necessary?

Your remark "see, what the Aztecs are offering" implies: TC - forum - TC, then replan for what to do after the Aztec trade; hence several extra turnchats are necessary.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
Your remark "see, what the Aztecs are offering" implies: TC - forum - TC, then replan for what to do after the Aztec trade; hence several extra turnchats are necessary.

Unfortunately, that's what needs to be done, since our rules don't allow for advisors to do anything DURING the turnchats now... (This is one of those reasons why I was so against it!).

But, seeing what the other civs want may be the best thing - not just one trade, wait 10 turns. Trade with Persia, get 1 contact. Then, follow the trend down the line, acquiring WMs and TMs as you go along, and anything else they might have. Perhaps a discussion and poll to let the Trade Advisor trade down the line without stopping 3 times?

 

[ravensfire]

Instructions COULD be posted that allow the DP to use their best judgement and conduct any trades with the Aztecs that benefit Fanatica.

You have to ask yourself - do you trust the DP? If you trust the DP to use their best judgement (and you like the judgement of the DP), and to use the advice of those present, then post instructions that give the DP flexibility. If you don't trust the DP, then you post instructions that don't give them the flexibility.

CT - the problem isn't always the ruleset. In this case, it's the inability of leaders (and I put myself in that group) to trust the DP to act in the best interests of Fanatica. NOTHING in the rules prohibits giving the DP options or control over certain things. Just the tradition that has leaders posting highly detailed instructions.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Chieftess]

Well, Trade should then write instructions to allow the DP to look at successive trades, and report back to Trade. That's what I'd do... and I did that when I was the Trade Advisor in prior demogames...

 

[Rik Meleet]

2 polls are up; here and here also.