Tactics and Strategy T130-T150

Yes Haz does ooze much science - but lets ooze a few units after oxford.

Later on I am totally on the same page about eventually building a 3rd academy – but if we have success in our wars other cities may end up being better candidates.
 
About Atyrau:

Every Population point takes 2 :food: to support IIRC. Every plains cottage produces 1 :food:, so a -1:food: deficit that must be supported somewhere else. Atyrau already works one grassfarm, 3:food: so that can support one plains cottage w/a total of 4 :food: between them. That means we need 2 grassfarms to support 2 plains cottages.

2 of the 4 grassland tiles available to Atyrau are shared with Kyzylorda, and Kyzlorda already needs those tiles. Kyzylorda has many hills to be mined which will make it a good production city, but it needs the grassfarms to get there. So we need to farm the 4th grassland in order to support a second plains cottage in Atyrau.

Right now the fish tile produces 6 :food: and the Fur produces 0:food:, so the Fish is using 2 of it's 4 'extra' :food: to support the Fur leaving 2 'extra'. The Iron mine produces 1 :food: so it is taking up 1 of that 2:food: surplus , leaving a 1 :food: surplus. All the water of the tiles produce 2:food: each, so enough to support themselves but not enough to foster growth.

So if we work all the water tiles, plus 2 plains cottages, and 2 grassfarms, Fur and Iron, we will have a surplus of 1 :food:, just enough to keep growing. If we mine the Tundra hill 0:food:, that makes -1:food:.

Another plains cottage would lose 1:food: from the grassfarm (by cutting irrigation) and lose 1:food: from the irrigated plains, making us -3 on :food:. So we can't do more than 2 plains cottages.
 
Bio changes the math a bit with the +1 food. But not by much. The truth is it won't mater much either way as we have a lot of sea tiles we want to start working before we work any of the other tiles.
 
Bio changes the math a bit with the +1 food. But not by much. The truth is it won't mater much either way as we have a lot of sea tiles we want to start working before we work any of the other tiles. Also keep in mind that the city shares tiles with Shym.

Does it make sense to switch from the furs to a sea tile? The city pop will grow a bit faster which we can use to whip the Maoi while still in monothesim. If we are racing to a tech we can work the furs - but right now I don't think we are in any hurry. After Moais, I think we should work fish, Iron, and the sea tiles. That will give the best growth + production (and pretty good commerce as well). We can grow that way to well over pop 10.
 
Wait... so does that mean you agree with my math/worker actions for Atyrau?:D

Anyway, I agree with you about Atyrau working mostly sea tiles. I would keep working the fur though, 5:commerce::eek:. Not working that tile would be like not working a Town.

But generally speaking, I think you are right that cottage v. farm in Atyrau is not as important once Moais are done. We certainly won't be working any cottages there anytime soon as we want to grow the city quickly.
 
Wait... so does that mean you agree with my math/worker actions for Atyrau?:D

Anyway, I agree with you about Atyrau working mostly sea tiles. I would keep working the fur though, 5:commerce::eek:. Not working that tile would be like not working a Town.

But generally speaking, I think you are right that cottage v. farm in Atyrau is not as important once Moais are done. We certainly won't be working any cottages there anytime soon as we want to grow the city quickly.

Yep, pretty much on the same page.

On the fur though - a sea tile is 3 commerce. So we only lose 2 commerce but gain 2 food. That pretty much doubles our population growth. And two sea tiles is 6 commerce - which is even better.
 
Sommers you forgot the two free :food: that every city gets in your equation. So with the fish and 1 grassland farm that is a surplus of 7. Spend 2 on the fur, 1 on iron and 2 on plains cottages and that still leaves a 2:food: surplus.
 
Good point about the city... however when you found a city, the city tile itself produces 2 :food:, but the city tile also consumes 2 :food:. What founding the city gives you, is an extra tile that you can work for the first population point, but if you set it to a tile that produces 0:food:, then your pop will stagnate.

All the city tile itself does, is produce enough :food: to support itself. It does not really create any growth/surplus on it's own.

Look at this image of Haz from Turn 123:
Spoiler :
attachment.php


If you look at the :food: production count at the top and then count up all the food being produced on the tiles (25:food:), you will see that it matches exactly. There is no "2 extra" :food: just from founding a city.

Now look at the :food: consumption value (24:food:) and look at the population (pop12). Notice that the :food: consumption is exacty 2x the population, meaning that each population point (including the first one) is consuming 2 :food:.

So, bottom line... the fish(6 :food:) and 1 grassland farm(3 :food:) and the city tile make 11 :food: total, but each one of those consumes 2 :food: each (6 total), leaving 5 food surplus. The fur uses up 2:food:, leaving 3 surplus and the iron mine uses up 1:food:, leaving 2 surplus. 2 Plains cottages would use up 1 :food: each, leaving zero surplus, and thus zero growth.

However, you still have the extra tile you can work from the city. If we use that tile for a second grassfarm (3 :food:) that will make a 3:food: surplus that we can use to mine the tundra hill, costing us 2:food: and leaving a 1 :food: surplus. We need that 1 :food: surplus to keep the city growing.

Anyway, as Damnrunner has already pointed out, once Moais are done we will be working the water tiles anyway so I'm not sure why we are even still talking about Atyrau cottages;)
 
We are still talking about it because we have a worker farming there right now. How bout we table the farm/cottage debate on Atyrau for down the road and retask that worker.
 
We are still talking about it because we have a worker farming there right now. How bout we table the farm/cottage debate on Atyrau for down the road and retask that worker.
Well that farm is already finished so the issue is moot... (Thank goodness for that:)) Any ideas for what the worker should do next?
 
We got a Islamic Missionary from founding Islam in Shymkent. I would send the Islamic missionary to spread Islam to Aktau. That way we can build an Islamic temple in Aktau, and run another priest for Great Prophet points.

Also we get a Great Sci next turn. Are we still settling him in Hazrate?
 
hmmmm...do we know what the scientist will bulb? I suspect it might be one of the techs that CAV will be going for. We wouldnt want duplication of effort.

I think the GS will spawn after we press end turn so we can find out what he would bulb and then discusses it while we are waiting for our next turn.
 
Why wouldn't we use the great scientist to bulb something? Just wondering. :confused:

Team Cav has already bulbed the next tech haven't they.

Also we get more long run benefit out of settling a GS. After 60 turns our settled GS will have produced more than 1,000 beakers and also gives a production bonus.
 
Oh ok. I didn't realize we'd be ahead after sixty turns this way. Thanks for the explanation.
 
A 3 pop whip is available for the Forge in Taraz. Taraz is now Pop 6 and grows in 5, Taraz is working four unimproved grassriver tiles. Workers are improving 3 tiles near Taraz, we will have 2 grassriver cottages there in 2 turns and 1 grassriverhill mine in 3 turns.

I would wait to whip the forge until it is a 1 pop whip and let Taraz keep growing. What do folks think?
 
It is always ideal to whip with more than 1 population point as you get the same -1 unhappiness effect either way.

After the whip the city will grow faster so I would wait for a 2 pop whip. I think that should let us work all of the improved tiles when they come online.
 
Taraz currently has 15 stored food. If we whip it down to pop 3 it will still have 15 stored food, and it will be producing 10 :food: per turn, while consuming 6 :food: per turn (4 :food: surplus per turn).

This is an article about City growth...http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/city_growth.php

The article seems right, with one major difference. At least in our game (if not in Civ 4 in general) The amount of food required to go from size 1 to size 2 is 22:food: stored (not 33), and this number increases by 2 (not 3) every population point increase. So it takes 24 :food: to get to pop 3, 26 to get to pop 4, 28 to get to pop 5, 30 to get to pop 6, 32 to get to pop 7, etc... you get the idea.

We have a granary in Taraz so half the food gets stored every time the pop increases, which you already know... so that is why we have 15 stored when Taraz just grew.

A 3 pop whip means that the city will need 26:food: to grow from pop 3 to pop 4. So 11 food since we already have 15 stored. At 4 :food: surplus per turn, that should be 3 turns. By then both cottages will be done, and the mine will be done.

Even after a 3 pop whip, Taraz will still be working 1 unimproved grassriver tile. In 2 turns that tile will be improved, then when we grow in 3 turns, the mine will be ready for the pop 4 citizen. Then we will need to store 14 (of 28) :food: to grow from pop 4 to pop 5. At 3 surplus per turn (we lose 1 surplus :food: to work the mine) it will take 5 turns to get to pop 5.

Based on all this (and Cavscout's recommendation:)), I would do the 3 pop whip now. I will wait a few more hours though to give more people a chance to comment.
 
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