Tactics and Strategy Turns 61-70

[Provolution]

I think we should complete the settler before the monument, as it will take some time for the city to grow to benefit from the monument, now that its slaved down to a minimum level of usefulness.

 

[cav scout]

Monument next

 

[Indiansmoke]

Perhaps I should write a guide for how to read turn logs? This pitboss setup took me a while to get used to too.

If you want to see what hammers actually went into on a turn, you need to see the screenshot of the last turn.

Screenshots are taken immediately after ending turn, so what you see in the screenshot for turn 66 is what the hammers will go into for turn 67, even though the screenshots shows turn 66.

I don't know how many hammers will overflow unless I play ahead with the sim game offline.

Anyone can do this and I'm trying to keep the sim game up-to-date.

You can also see from the screenshot how many turns until a city grows or an item is completed.

Finally, I did try and explain why we should chop earlier in a previous post. IIRC correctly I pointed out doing so would mean completing the monument on the turn we grew.

I'm definitely not going to have time to spell out every turn how many hammers are going into each production item and how many will overflow when finished. That's what the sim game is for.

I lost you here

How can we tell from the screen shots you post how many hammers are invested in the current builds?

Also how can I tell if you changed the build after pressing enter or before? I can only see a picture, I am not in game seeing what you are doing!

On the other hand calculating overflow hammers is very simple...let me explain it.

You enter the city screen and see how many hammers inveted in monumet (hammer top bar) lets say (28 for example). You see next to the bar the hammer production of this turn (5 for example). So 28+5=33 - 30 for monument 3 hammers will overflow...as simple as that. If you chop or slave all you have to do is add the hammers from that to teh equation.

So what I asked for is to tell us, since you play the turns, how many hammers invested in monument, the rest we can calculate.

 

[donsig]

Would a pic of the F1 screen help? The one listing all the cities, and all their relevant stats.

Another suggestion (again) would be saves that we could look at later.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I am against creating extra work for turn players...already taking screens and posting, planning turns etc is enough work.

But in such circumstances that we have to decide betwen 2 builds, we need to know specifically how many turns the delay will be, to make a better choice.

 

[Kaleb]

I lost you here

How can we tell from the screen shots you post how many hammers are invested in the current builds?

You can't tell from the screenshots exactly how many hammers are invested in a production item. And it's going to be a lot of extra work to record that every turn. It is a lot easier for me to just update the test save every few turns, or people can follow the turn logs themselves to get the test save up to the relevant point and see hammers for themselves.

Also how can I tell if you changed the build after pressing enter or before? I can only see a picture, I am not in game seeing what you are doing!

Screenshots are taken after ending turn, so if production has been changed since the last screenshot it will have been changed after ending turn. But I can make this more clear if it's a bit ambiguous.

On the other hand calculating overflow hammers is very simple...let me explain it.

You enter the city screen and see how many hammers inveted in monumet (hammer top bar) lets say (28 for example). You see next to the bar the hammer production of this turn (5 for example). So 28+5=33 - 30 for monument 3 hammers will overflow...as simple as that. If you chop or slave all you have to do is add the hammers from that to teh equation.

So what I asked for is to tell us, since you play the turns, how many hammers invested in monument, the rest we can calculate.

Yeah, I know how to do it, but I'm not going to have time to work this out for every production item, every city, every turn. Easiest thing to do is just load up the test save

 

[Kaleb]

What are we going to do with this barb warrior then? shall we go and finish him off with the chariot?

I say leave him be, he's a way off from pillaging anything and will attack the first warrior sentry he sees. Chariot needs to explore

Spoiler :

I'm going to move our worker by Pavlodar back to mine a turn. this means the worker that's finished the cottage can come back and finish the farm before going to the hill by Hazrat-e. Otherwise the worker by Haz has to waste a turn just moving up onto the hill as it's not on a road now

I'll run some testing before end turn.

The scout also has 1 left, I say he should go SW. I think Bushir should also go S and maybe lure the warrior into a fight in the forests. he's on 4/5 exp so getting woodsman II would be nice.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I have followed a slightly different aproach in tiles worked in the test file and I find it interesting.
here it is:
worker finishs farm in Pavlodar, Pavlodar works farm instead of cottage
capital stops working the corn and works cottage
monument in actau

then worker from capital cottage (after finishing it) goes strait to deer
worker from pavlodar farm goes to rosd (on the wine)
worker from actau roads where he choped
and then they continue to gether to road towards gold spot and improve wine as soon as border pops.
pavlodar as soon as size 4 takes over cottage form capital again and capital back corn

This works out so capital grows as soon as we get confu...so we will save 1 turn of anarchy by not addopting HR now and with the wine we will be ok for a while...meanwhile cities will have tiles to work and new city will have workers to improve land...



This works out that capital

 

[Sommerswerd]

I would rather that the chariot gets the easy experience by killing the warrior.

Sending Sir Robin SW sounds good.

 

[Kaleb]

I like Smokey's idea of slowing Haz's growth so we don't lose a turn of revolution before getting Conf. So I tried a version of that, but I skipped the Wine in favour of developing towards the city spot.

Here's how things look at turn 80:

Spoiler :

Pluses

• Flood plains by Oskemen are worked as soon as culture pops.
• Corn by Aktau worked as soon as borders pop, it will be using this corn very soon, it will be a whipping machine with monarchy!
• The turn after City 5 is founded (t79) it can use the improved corn!
• Haz will have a granary before growing again.
• 2 Chariots
• 105 +81 Aesthetics in 2 turns

I got the worker by Pavlo to finish the mine before moving to road the forest by Oskemen, this means Pavlo has 4 improved tiles to work at pop 4 when it switches to build a worker.
I switched to Monarchy a couple of turns after Conf was founded as so a worker could be built and Oskemen's borders could pop.
I took the scientists off Haz after Conf was founded

p.s. Conf founded in Pavlo again

 

[Kaleb]

done some more testing. building Settler before monument only gets the city built one turn faster and but the workers are as ready to improve the corn, so you aren't gaining much.

Without the monument the worker around Aktau also can't get on to improve the corn straight after the deer.

Hazrat-e is a bit better developed (I did the Monarch revolution version) but overall tech is a bit slower and we get Conf one turn later (Conf again came in Pavlo!).

Most people have supported Monument first, so I say monument it is.

 

[donsig]

I am against creating extra work for turn players...already taking screens and posting, planning turns etc is enough work.

Is saving the game and emailing it to the team account that much more work? The turn player does not have to do all the planning. This is a team game after all.

 

[Kaleb]

Is saving the game and emailing it to the team account that much more work? The turn player does not have to do all the planning. This is a team game after all.

How does that work exactly? Can you load from that in single player? And doesn't it border on an exploit as if you move a unit you can see in-game units hidden by fog.

Easiest thing surely is to just keep the test save up-to-date? And anyone can do that, not just the turn player.

 

[Sommerswerd]

If you save the game while in the pitboss and then try to load in single player, the game will not load. I think I remember Donsig metioning something about historical saves a while back but I don't really know how that works.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I like Smokey's idea of slowing Haz's growth so we don't lose a turn of revolution before getting Conf. So I tried a version of that, but I skipped the Wine in favour of developing towards the city spot.

Here's how things look at turn 80:

Spoiler :

Pluses

• Flood plains by Oskemen are worked as soon as culture pops.
• Corn by Aktau worked as soon as borders pop, it will be using this corn very soon, it will be a whipping machine with monarchy!
• The turn after City 5 is founded (t79) it can use the improved corn!
• Haz will have a granary before growing again.
• 2 Chariots
• 105 +81 Aesthetics in 2 turns

I got the worker by Pavlo to finish the mine before moving to road the forest by Oskemen, this means Pavlo has 4 improved tiles to work at pop 4 when it switches to build a worker.
I switched to Monarchy a couple of turns after Conf was founded as so a worker could be built and Oskemen's borders could pop.
I took the scientists off Haz after Conf was founded

p.s. Conf founded in Pavlo again

It is a good plan! although roading on wine saves you a turn and cities still get connected by tile NW of wine...I like the ideea of finishing mine in pavlodar before moving on as well.

 

[donsig]

How does that work exactly? Can you load from that in single player?

Here's the link. I've only had BtS for about a month now and I'm still not comfortable with the pitboss details yet so I haven't tried making a save. Anyone could make the save. The question is when would be the best time - before or after we make our moves? (Looks like it must be made before we end turn.) A significant advantage of having the saves would be we could go back and look at details. This could also make the turn player's job easier since someone else could go back to the archived save and post screenies.

And doesn't it border on an exploit as if you move a unit you can see in-game units hidden by fog.

It is against the rules of the MTDG to do that. It is not against the rules to keep saves for historical purposes. If this were a pbem (like the MTDG) you'd have the same exploitish-like ability. That's why the rule is there.

Easiest thing surely is to just keep the test save up-to-date? And anyone can do that, not just the turn player.

The test saves are invaluable and we must continue using and updating them for planning purposes. But archived saves give us a treasure trove of information to turn to if the need arises. It was my hope that saves would answer questions like 'where did the hammers go this turn?'.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Here's the link. A significant advantage of having the saves would be we could go back and look at details. archived saves give us a treasure trove of information to turn to if the need arises. It was my hope that saves would answer questions like 'where did the hammers go this turn?'.

Dosent this post in the historical save thread and the few posts right after seeem to suggest that the only person in simultaneous Pitboss who can access such saves is team 1? (Because in simultaneous turns, the login will always ask for team 1's password.)

Since we luckily happen to be team 1, I am not necessarily against taking advantage of this exploit, however we have to be honest that it would be unfair to the other teams (since they cant do the same) and probably pretty solid ground for them to complain if they found out. Especialy given the concerns about city swapping, I am worried that this might be seen as an unfair exploit too.

If I am wrong about team 1 being the only one with access to historical saves in simultaneous I apologize, but that is what the thread seemed to say.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Dosent this post in the historical save thread and the few posts right after seeem to suggest that the only person in simultaneous Pitboss who can access such saves is team 1? (Because in simultaneous turns, the login will always ask for team 1's password.)

Since we luckily happen to be team 1, I am not necessarily against taking advantage of this exploit, however we have to be honest that it would be unfair to the other teams (since they cant do the same) and probably pretty solid ground for them to complain if they found out. Especialy given the concerns about city swapping, I am worried that this might be seen as an unfair exploit too.

If I am wrong about team 1 being the only one with access to historical saves in simultaneous I apologize, but that is what the thread seemed to say.

No this is not true, anyone can make a save during his team's turn.

 

[Sommerswerd]

No this is not true, anyone can make a save during his team's turn.

Right, but check out the next few posts in the thread like the ones right after Lord Parkin's... Explaining that the reason he could not ACCESS the save was because he was playing simultaneous turn Pitboss. In simultaneous it is never YOUR team's "turn." It is always EVERY team's turn.

So while I agree that ANYONE can SAVE the game while logged in, the thread on historical saves seems to say that when you try to LOAD the save it will ask you for team 1's password.

I think the best way to settle this is to ask Cavalieros if they can MAKE and then ACCESS a historical save. If they can then that settles it.

 

[Indiansmoke]

We are not playing simoultanious here Sommerswerd