BeefBayford
Going Steady
Irrigating first helps growth so I would propose that. I will research Pottery at full blast. My game is now patched so I'm ready to rock! I will play 5 turns in about 12hrs and post my turnlog here for discussion.
tao_1 vanilla emperor training/succession game
- Thread starter tao
- Start date
Formula51
Go Leafs Go!
I agree, irrigation first, then road. Also, from the looks of things, we don't seem to have anyother bonus resources except for the 2 BG's and the game. Therefore, we'll need to make due with a 6-turn settler, until we switch out of despotism.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
BeefBayford said:
Completing the road first will (1) link the luxury resource and (2) decrease the time needed to irrigate, or mine. Also, mining the luxury resource will provide a shield for increased production. The tile is already producing 2 food, but 0 shields. Given that you're going to move the settler 1S, Rome will expand in about 10-11 turns which will then place the 2 bonus tiles within Rome's radius, bringing in two more tiles that produce 2 food each. But, you also have the forests, producing 1 food and 2 shields. Which is most important over the first 10-12 turns?
Formula51
Go Leafs Go!
With the 2 BG's, we should already have alot of shields, plus whatever is revealed by settler 1S. Since the wine is the only tile that can reach more than 2 fpt that we know of, I think that we should take advantage of that, as we will already be using forests for extra shields if needed.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
With a conquest VC, where/when does city size become irrelevant and production (war machine) become the focus? After a core of cities has been established?
dojoboy said:
We know much better. Game gives +2 fpt. Thus an irrigated grassland with game gives 2+1+2 = 5 fpt. During despotism, this is decreased by 1 and thus gives 4 fpt. With wines giving +1 fpt, irrigated grassland wine gives 2+1+1= 4 fpt, 3 in depotism. And remember that the city center also gives 2 fpt. If you read the settler factory article (If not, now is the time to hurry and read it. Now!) I linked in post#23, you know that this gives the crucial +5 fpt for a despotic 4 turn settler factory. And the forest chop will contibute 10 shields to the granary.We will get all the shileds we need from the 2 mined bonus grass and a forest on growth.Formula51 said:
Roading will not speed the irrigation. You find a table for worker turns needed here. Remember it. It is another essential peace of knowledge for good play!
PS: Maybe my English is not good enough to express me clearly. I will give it another try:
How can we learn from the starting save about the number and nationality of the other civs?
Will we start working a wines, lake or forest tile? And for how long? Why and when will we switch the tile worked?
BeefBayford
Going Steady
tao said:
1) Not a lot unless we open up the space race screen and check the other Civs there, I want to make sure this isn't considered an exploit before I do it.
2) Work wines first to save a turn since the worker is standing on it. After that its difficult to say since not all of our terrain is visible from the starting screenie.
Yes, F10 space race reveals the information about the AIs. And no, this is not forbidden by the gotm rules.
Regarding the other question, I was referring to the important issue of micromanagement (mm) - assigning city population to the tiles they work. Look at the following picture:
On the left, you see the automatic assignment of the citizen to the lake tile: 2 food, 0 shields. By clicking on another tile in the city radius, you can change this assignment manually - in this case to a 1 food, 2 shield forrest. While there are some (actually quite a lot of) people arguing that early growth is everything, I would prefer the shields in this case.
Think ahead 3 turns: by then, the worker will have irrigated the wines. And we will have collected 3x3=9 shields - only one short or the 10 shields required to build a warrior. Thus after 3 turns, we should open the city screen again and move our citizen from the forrest to the wines. This will give us 3 food instead of 1 and still finish the warrior next turn.
While the high gotm scores are usually produced by running an early farmers gambit, IMHO early troops might come in handy in unknown terrain. Sure we have much less commerce (research), but pottery is not a really expensive tech.
Regarding the other question, I was referring to the important issue of micromanagement (mm) - assigning city population to the tiles they work. Look at the following picture:
On the left, you see the automatic assignment of the citizen to the lake tile: 2 food, 0 shields. By clicking on another tile in the city radius, you can change this assignment manually - in this case to a 1 food, 2 shield forrest. While there are some (actually quite a lot of) people arguing that early growth is everything, I would prefer the shields in this case.
Think ahead 3 turns: by then, the worker will have irrigated the wines. And we will have collected 3x3=9 shields - only one short or the 10 shields required to build a warrior. Thus after 3 turns, we should open the city screen again and move our citizen from the forrest to the wines. This will give us 3 food instead of 1 and still finish the warrior next turn.
While the high gotm scores are usually produced by running an early farmers gambit, IMHO early troops might come in handy in unknown terrain. Sure we have much less commerce (research), but pottery is not a really expensive tech.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
Well I would usually take the growth route but since we are only slowing growth by a few turns it could be beneficial to get a worker out in 4 turns. Any other thoughts or shall I get cracking?
dojoboy
Tsalagi
tao said:
I'll check that out. The biggest problem I have playing is basing decisions on assumptions. I thought this was a tenet on a walk-through Cracker wrote up many moons ago.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
tao said:
Is there a relationship between Rome having a luxury & bonus resource, as well as the BG's and freshwater, and the number of civs in the game? Also, since civs start near similar cultures, then one can guess that other nationalities might be... .
Formula51
Go Leafs Go!
Sorry tao, I thought we were not going to chop the game. Usually, I don't do that, for the extra shields. But, I read the article a long time ago though, so I realize what you are talking about. BTW, I also read an article on MM, I believe it is great for the lower level players.
I have a question, how do you usually explore? In a ring? Straight out from your cap?
Dojoboy, I don't think there is any relation, as this (should) be a random map, we just got lucky with the wines.
We will definately need more shields, or more fpt to get a settler factory going.
I have a question, how do you usually explore? In a ring? Straight out from your cap?
Dojoboy, I don't think there is any relation, as this (should) be a random map, we just got lucky with the wines.
We will definately need more shields, or more fpt to get a settler factory going.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
Pre-Flight: Checked F10, our oppo's are Greece, Persia, Zululand, Babylon, India, Iroquois and England 
1) 4000BC
Move Settler 1S, Worker Irrigates.
2) 3950BC
Found Rome, have it work forest first to increase production on Warrior. Pottery in 20 @ 100%
3) 3900BC
Zzz
4) 3850BC
Zzz
5) 3800BC
Worker completes irrigation, begins road, Rome works wine, Warrior in 1.
Here is a screenie of Romeland circa 3800BC:
Any thoughts before I press on with the next 5 turns? Where should I send the warrior? The obvious choice for me is towards the mountains South since it is also towards the Equator. What about build orders in Rome? Another warrior before a Settler perhaps? I'd like a team concensus before I press on, which will most likely be tomorrow evening (ie. in about 28hrs). I shall post the save incase somebody would like to play a few before then:
SAVE
PS: tao where did you get your popheads from? Could you post me a link please?
1) 4000BC
Move Settler 1S, Worker Irrigates.
2) 3950BC
Found Rome, have it work forest first to increase production on Warrior. Pottery in 20 @ 100%
3) 3900BC
Zzz
4) 3850BC
Zzz
5) 3800BC
Worker completes irrigation, begins road, Rome works wine, Warrior in 1.
Here is a screenie of Romeland circa 3800BC:
Any thoughts before I press on with the next 5 turns? Where should I send the warrior? The obvious choice for me is towards the mountains South since it is also towards the Equator. What about build orders in Rome? Another warrior before a Settler perhaps? I'd like a team concensus before I press on, which will most likely be tomorrow evening (ie. in about 28hrs). I shall post the save incase somebody would like to play a few before then:
SAVE
PS: tao where did you get your popheads from? Could you post me a link please?
My instincts here are divided, yes heading south with the warrior is a good idea because it's toward the equator, but I also want to see what's east and west, since the majority of the land that looks worthy of settling is in those directions. I think another warrior to stick at home and do some defending is a good idea before we start pumping out settlers.
I'm willing to be told I'm completely wrong on all of these counts, as well.
I'm willing to be told I'm completely wrong on all of these counts, as well.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
A good point about East and West Inkoate, but on that point there is a river running to the south from near the floodplain, a city on this river should be our next target.
lurker's comment: Tao is it ok for lurkers to add suggestions from time to time?
Along with the mood badges, I've found Mapstat by Dianthus to be a great utility and a lot of people rave about Ainwood's Civassist II.
Either help to get a quick view of the empire you are building.
Civassist II
Mapstat
Along with the mood badges, I've found Mapstat by Dianthus to be a great utility and a lot of people rave about Ainwood's Civassist II.
Either help to get a quick view of the empire you are building.
Civassist II
Mapstat
