Tax Leads Americans Abroad to Renounce U.S.

[.Shane.]

Your (ungiven) answer is a political opinion, just as mine is. Please tell me what your answer is, but please don't expect me to change my mind.

Its not a political opinion, its an economic fact.

The ability for wages to scale has a direct correlation to technical innovation and economic improvement of a society.

And, mind you, I'm saying this as someone who is anti-laissez faire capitalism (its a mythh).

 

[.Shane.]

Not really, since my family members who earn more than 90 000$ while living in Canada and paying Canadian taxes pay next to nothing in American taxes.

Well, I apologize and admit to standing semi-corrected. I'll back off my judgement a little while I try and figure out what the burden is.

While I do think it bad policy to tax someone twice, I do want to know what the taxation rate is. Because, if, as you indicate, its nominal, then yes, this issue is not as bad and would be one more of policy than raw economics.

 

[Goonie]

But the person is receiving the benefits of two citizenships.

Is it really a good idea to make citizenship benefits two-for-one?

Canada's evacuation of Lebanesse-Canadians should have Canadians thinking about taxing overseas citizens.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Your (ungiven) answer is a political opinion, just as mine is. Please tell me what your answer is, but please don't expect me to change my mind.

Its not a political opinion, its an economic fact.

The ability for wages to scale has a direct correlation to technical innovation and economic improvement of a society.

And, mind you, I'm saying this as someone who is anti-laissez faire capitalism (its a mythh).

The ability for wages to scale is not blocked. The ability for wages to scale above a certain maximum is.

 

[scipian]

If you earn that much than I feel no pity for you.

Why? Just because one works hard, goes to college, and gets a job doesn't mean that they should be vilified. Look-The median pay of k-12 teachers is around 45k. So two people working as teachers are in that range. It isn't THAT hard to achieve a job of that caliber. Teaching is a fairly easy job to achieve.

BTW-Does Europe have really low wages? Because my dad worked at a construction company to get to college and has worked himself up to the 100k+ range. All of the jobs I'm considering would easily pass the 90k range with two partners.

 

[MamboJoel]

But the person is receiving the benefits of two citizenships.

Is it really a good idea to make citizenship benefits two-for-one?

No. You guys need to understand that paying taxes for the country you live in doesn't give you any right to vote in this country. Citizenship and paying taxes are not quite correlated like some would like them to be...
Also, the american abroad often has only one nationality : US, so he only gets the benefit of voting in the US and is taxed twice.

 

[EdwardTking]

I thought there was usually some offset agreement between the US and other countries so the individual does not pay twice?

I thought one set of taxes were allowed to be offset against the other?

There were a number of such treaties, but everytime they came up for renewal; the USA government tried to make them more one sided.

In some instances the USA government succeeded; in others it failed
and no successor treaty was signed. In either event many high earning
US citizens working outside the USA ended up having two sets of taxmen.

Can Americans just renounce citizenship?

Easy peasy, just enlist in a non USA military and citizenship is withdrawn.

If you are willing to renounce your American citizenship as part of a tax savings strategy, good riddance.

Clearly following in the tradition of their ancestors who renounced British citizenship as part of a tax savings strategy.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

If somebody renounces their citizenship over that, they probably would not have been a particularly useful citizen in the first place. Let France have them, I say.

 

[Goonie]

No. You guys need to understand that paying taxes for the country you live in doesn't give you any right to vote in this country. Citizenship and paying taxes are not quite correlated like some would like them to be...
Also, the american abroad often has only one nationality : US, so he only gets the benefit of voting in the US and is taxed twice.

Ah, I was under the impression we were talking about dual-citizens.

EDIT: But wait, can one have no citizenship at all? For if they renounce their citizenship without being citizens of another country, that would make them citizens of no country. Is that even possible?

 

[cegman]

I don't get people who are saying these are useless citizens I would certainly be happy for them to be citizens for times if they do come back to the states.

 

[.Shane.]

The ability for wages to scale is not blocked. The ability for wages to scale above a certain maximum is.

How arbitrary. Why block at a certain point? Why not just pay everyone exactly the same, no matter what job they do. Its more logical than what you're espousing.

And, btw, that would be a block. A block is a stoppage of some kind.

 

[Trajan12]

It makes sense to me. If the government has to hold your seat for so long then you should pay. Especially if you are making close to a six figure income. Don't like it? Stay where you are. We don't really need those people.

 

[Xanikk999]

I'm never jealous. I simply fail to see any reason why someone should earn more than 40.000 Euros per year. Above that it is simply ridiculous.

We dont live in a socialist state. Thats reason enough.

Edit: Shane, i beileve this is the asnwer you are looking for.

 

[Scuffer]

If somebody renounces their citizenship over that, they probably would not have been a particularly useful citizen in the first place. Let France have them, I say.

I dunno. Someone bright enough to get a job paying that much money overseas would be a asset I would have thought, especially if they have language skills.

 

[JollyRoger]

I dunno. Someone bright enough to get a job paying that much money overseas would be a asset I would have thought, especially if they have language skills.

They are not an asset to their homeland if they are working overseas and paying no taxes to their homeland.

 

[Trajan12]

I dunno. Someone bright enough to get a job paying that much money overseas would be a asset I would have thought, especially if they have language skills.

Why? They're of no use to us. They aren't working for us, we don't benefit anything from them.

 

[.Shane.]

They are not an asset to their homeland if they are working overseas and paying no taxes to their homeland.

Not true at all. They may return, they may be working for a US company overseas or in an industry that benefits the US, etc.. etc... there are many, many ways.

I could easily argue that millions of Americans don't do much to earn their citizenship and they live here.

 

[CaptainF]

Am I alone in thinking this is ******ed?

 

[GinandTonic]

I was under the impression that between the UK/ US the deal was that if you would have paid more in your home country then you had to pay the difference to the home country. Also wasnt Ulsterman saying how it worked as a really sweet deal for the first 18 months or whatever?

If this really is letting all tax treaties expire and then fighting over the poor suckers left in the middle it is an act of base beaurocratic stupidity. To loose your highest tax-paying citizens in a political bun-fight is self-defeating.

 

[ainwood]

We ahve american expats working for our company, and the company pays their US taxation for them (well, its factored into their remuneration package).