Team 3 Starting Position

[Sullla]

Also, you said this was a standard size map. Is it OK if you state if it is a standard dtandard size map? Because some map scripts have larger or smaller sizes than standard (ie teambattleground and highlands)? Obviously I'd expect all teams to be given the infomation.

Definitely not. And I wouldn't give that info to any other teams either.

It's a MYSTERY map, remember? Explore and figure it out yourselves.

 

[General_W]

Thanks for your work on this Sulla.

I'm totally psyched to find out what you left for us.
Especially in that very mysterious jungle...

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

thanks Sulla!

And team, all these sims are fine and entertaining, but maybe we should wait and see what other tiles/resources appear in the fog when actually founding our capital...

-Kylearan

 

[Krill]

Considering we'll only have 24 hours on the first turn, I think we have to partially sim out what is feasible now, because there may not be time later on.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I'm not suggesting that we create a rigidly defined plan and stick to it no matter what but we should all agree on, or maintain for review, a short list of directives to the turn player. This list should cover decisions until X Milestone (first settler, technology, etc). In the beginning, for instance, we will have decided on a method of using our worker and which is the "best" way to make use of tile yields. I think Krill is on to something in that regard. After we find some resources out there we would, undoubtedly, add to the plan (city site, improvements, roads, units, etc).

For now, we can't even be 100% certain what some of those tiles are (the forested tile the warrior is on, for instance...is it a hill or not?). So, in this case, it would be wise to get into the game before we start making longer-term projections. But if anything else pops up in the 3 squares we can't see (inside our city cross, accessible after three turns) then we have plenty of time to adjust our initial plans.

 

[Krill]

There are hills 77, 47, 5, 2, 21, 41, 3, 447 of the settler. I'm pretty sure that there are also hills 63, 4447, 477 of the settler as well. Not sure if the tile 21 of the settler is a jungle though.

Kylearan, Viva pretty much gets what I'm sugegsting we do; get a basic plan together (the wb->worker idea, and research towards BW), then add to it as we gain more info. The numbers for the settler are just a measure of growth potential, and as Viva also said, we can't see 3 tiles...if anything does pop up in those (and personally I doubt it but will be happy to be proved wrong) then we can adjust the plan, but I don't think we'll have to. The only thing that we should improve before the wheat is an irrigated corn, we won't know about any strat resources until we have finished improving the wheat anyway and we won't have AH in time to pasturise anything (hmmm, pasturised cow...).

 

[Krill]

Oh, and a new method for getting 2 workers and a settler by turn 30: standard opening (wb->worker, finish turn 15), then grow to size 2 while the worker farms the wheat, start building a worker after finishing the 2nd warrior on turn 20, and use the first worker to chop the grassland forest 1 of the capital, overflow into a settler when the worker is complete, meanwhile both workers more to forests and chop (I suggest 41 and 2 of the capitol). Complete the settler on turn 30. It can also get a third worker on turn 36 and be size 4 on turn 35...

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I don't like the idea of chopping when we could be farming for the same thing.

 

[Krill]

Oh, I meant chopping after we have farmed the wheat. I've editted it to make it more thorough.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

After we get the farm up there is a plains hill to the S of it. It would be a good idea to chop that while waiting for the wheel (they come at about the same time). Building a mine there soon as the chop is done, I think, would be the best...but what do you think the trade offs are for building a mine vs. moving along and continuing chopping (only to have to come back later and mine that tile)?

 

[Krill]

Actually, I might be able to get the second warrior before the worker and still get the settler on turn 30...I'll go check and edit the post leter.

And checking proves me right. We can get a second warrior on turn 20, and still get the second worker on the same turn, we just have less overflow into the settler (which is a good thing becuase we can decide to pop out a third warrior if we really need to before the settler).

 

[Krill]

After we get the farm up there is a plains hill to the S of it. It would be a good idea to chop that while waiting for the wheel (they come at about the same time). Building a mine there soon as the chop is done, I think, would be the best...but what do you think the trade offs are for building a mine vs. moving along and continuing chopping (only to have to come back later and mine that tile)?

The mine works out slower by a turn getting the settler out, if we don't get the second worker. If we mine and try to get the second worker before the settler we end up waiting till turn 32 for the settler. The main problem is that it's best not to grow to size three until we've finished the settler, because if we chop the 2nd worker and the settler, and then grow to size 3, we will still have the mine done the turn we grow to size 3 (Actually we can get mines done on two hills by the turn we grow to size three, so we can grow to size 4 and not need to improve anymore tiles, allowing the workers to road straight to the second city and improve that if we need to hook up resources asap, and the capital can build a 5 turn worker without chopping assistance anyway). Because of this I prefer to chop the river/grassland/forest first into the 2nd worker because we'll never lose worker turns moving onto it later on.


One thing I'm not sure of is the tile 21 of the settler; I think it might be a grasshill/jungle tile, or hopefully a forest. If it's a forest we can chop that tile second along with the forest/hill 2 of the settler, road them both at hte same time and get the grasshill mined first with both workers before we mine the hill 2 of the settler and then go road to the new city with both workers and improve it while the capital pumps out a few warriors for sentry duty while growing to size 4. At size 4 it can then do whatever is required, making 10 hpt and 5 fpt for 4 turn workers. If it's jungle then chop the hill tile 41 of the settler instead and just mine both before roading to the new city. It might be a turn slower, but as soo as we hit size 4 it's still as fast for buildijng workers and settlers.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

Again, I've found it is possible to have Agriculture, Fishing, Mining, Bronze Working and The Wheel (and be starting on Tech #6) as well as have (2) Warriors, a Settler and a Worker by Turn 30 (that's 5 Techs total, 3 Techs researched).

Is what you're talking about better, in the sense that it offers more by T30?

NOTE: The Wheel is for demonstration purposes only; anything could be researched in it's place.

 

[Krill]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Krill]

Yeah, the techs are the same pretty much no matter what we do give or take a few commerce (negligable amount), the difference is that by chopping we can have a 2 warriors, a settler and 2 workers by turn 30 if we don't mine the plains hill and instead chop the grassland forest.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I see what you're saying. I guess you had to break it down Barney-style for me.

Everything else being equal, having 2 workers is better than only having 1!

 

[Krill]

No problem. I used to make exact logs when I was the econ guy in civ3 demogames, that was alot harder microing 3 cities in CxCxC spacing when all of them were 2 turn pumps and explaining and required alot more text and specific notation. One of the reasons I fell in love with CIV, so much l;ess work to do but still MMing can make a massive difference.

 

[General_W]

I just wanted to say that you two are doing brilliant work here!

I agree whole-heartedly with trying to have a basic plan in place and then modifying it if necessary when we actually see the other tiles.

 

[Viva_Chingon]

We might be able to get all the turn players together for the first x number of turns and get the game a little jump start that way. When any team needed to stop to confer it would be end of the line and normal play would begin.

This would only work if all other teams developed a basic worker/settler strategy in time for game start for x number of turns and the majority of team members were in favor of doing so. I guess the first place to start is here...

Is anyone else in favor of trying to coordinate an all-up session for game start, or is this a bad idea for some reason?

 

[Krill]

I'd expect some teams to be against it because they want control over scouting. I'm not sure if I'm for it or against it, it'd depend on the turnplayer and what he could do to help with that situation (ie get everyone in on a chat in MSN so we could discuss what happened and what new info about the map we have).