Team 3 Starting Position

I was thinking Teamspeak or even just the message boards would work for communication.

I understand your point though and wouldn't really expect something like this to happen. I think it'd be easy enough to orchestrate though.
 
Personally I like the TS idea, but I doubt everyone on the team has headphones, and it wouldn't help me personally because I'm unable to connect to a teamspeak server while at uni (so only able to use MSN, internet forums, and maybe mIRC) until I return home on the 17th.
 
That is an impressive screenshot in post 34 Krill. I notice however that your island start freed you from ever having to worry about barbs let alone deal with them. I just want to remind folks to be a bit more cautious. I would rather expand slower than loose a worker or have to give up working our best tiles due to barb activity.

Bronze working is a great tech but we will need archers before too long.
 
I don't think we'll have human barbs before turn 30, though that does need checking; also, I thought they won't enter borders until atleast half the civs on the continent have a second city? Either way, I would suggest using the 2nd warrior (which we get on turn 21) to defend the worker and not the city; if we have to we can get a warrior in 2 turns working the plains/hill/forest (and losing 4 food total). I would also not be averse to building warriors while we grow from size 2 to size 4 after turn 30, but that could always change depending on what we see. We will also have the capital borders expand on turn 25, so we will have even greater warning of barbs.

EDIT: Barbs don't appear until turn 25 on monarch, so we should be OK with the early worker so long as another team doesn't try to screw with us. As to the archery: It depends, IMO, on the location of copper, and if we need to go for AH for food for the second city. The only real problem I have with getting archery immediately after BW is if it really impacts growth, but the only way it should do that is if we don't have any copper nearby to settle with the second city, and if every single food resource requires a pasture. It would delay us from getting pottery and AH by, probably, 10 turns (that's the amount of time it takes to research Hunting and Archery, which is the same amount of time it takes to get AH). If we could settle copper with our second city I would obviously be against getting archery prior to AH and pottery.

EDIT2: If people really want a third warrior before the settler, it basically costs us the second worker and a switch to slavery to slave 2 pop (4->2) to get the settler by turn 30. If we delay the settler to turn 33, we can get a second worker on turn 30. Because of the timing to get archery, we won't be able to build any archers until turn 35 (estimate, and that is delaying chopping into settlers/workers for no reason other than to build an archer because we want one, we could always chop out an archer if we need one but I can't see a reason for that unless we really need one). It also leads to unsynchonised chopping; if we don't get the third warrior, the timming of the workers allwos to them to both finish choppng at the same time, so we can spend 2 turns growing and the third building a worker/settler, which allows us to grow to size 4 quicker and start using mines sooner.

EDIT3: OK, new path: Normal openning to turn 21; move worker 3 onto grass forest, chop, build warrior til size 3, revolt to slavery on a turn prior to the forest chop being completed. Chop coincides with growth to size 3, build a worker,
Turn 25: slave worker2 for 1 pop W1 (Worker 1 moves 4 onto plains hill).
Turn 26: Overflow into a settler, W1 chops, W2 moves 2.
Turn 27: build warrior, W2 chops
Turn 28: chop into settler
Turn 29: chop into settler
Turn 30: Build warrior, W1 mines, settler 2 turns from completeion
Turn 31: W2 mines
Turn 32: Warrior3 built, grow to size 3, work mine, build settler
Turn 33: Settler complete
 
Actually, a very important question: Because this game has teh humans at monarch, but Sullla made teh game at noble difficulty, does this game have teh same <ibarbstuff> as a noble game or a monarch game? Because if it is a noble game, then barbs don;t turn up until turn 35; we would be perfectly OK going with 2 warriors if we are careful and used both warriors to cover parts of the route to the new city site.
 
I would agree that the barb situation is something that hasn't been included in the sim...but I would also agree that it is not going to come up for the first several turns. In real life I would err to the side of caution and build the extra defenses early but, in my experience with Civ, rushes are not commonly a problem.

That said, the only thing that I would be concerned by is an enemy scout finding us within the first 10 turns...this might mean we're the closest neighbor to someone who is scouting a target for a rush. In this case I would work on Archery but, otherwise, I would want to take advantage of resources as early as possible.
 
Yeah, if a scout calls on us in the first ten turns (ie turns up at our border), all bets are probably off unles M-H can gives us enough info on their military. But this is a standard size map with only 5 teams, so unless Sulla has screwed about with civ placements (and he did screw about with the jungle, remember) we should be a fair distance from the other civs
 
Hi,

We might be able to get all the turn players together for the first x number of turns and get the game a little jump start that way. When any team needed to stop to confer it would be end of the line and normal play would begin.
I'm against that, unless the turnplayer makes screenshots of every stats screen every turn, or provides a savegame for every turn - I'd like to see how the scores, demographics etc. change for every turn to see what the other teams are doing. ;)

Also, scouting can be a team issue as well, discussing where a scout should move next. We want to involve the team as a whole as soon as possible, so they won't feel too detached once the situation gets more complicated. At least that's my opinion.

-Kylearan
 
Yeah, there's all that...like every other game was played...of course we can always do what we've always done.

I think Kylearan is a pretty good seismograph for how many people think on issues like this...in that case I'll consider it a dead prop unless someone else brings it up!

Also, Daveshack put up a test Pitboss Game. For those interested in logging into the game to check up on things, you can test your connection now. We can also apply a password. I'm for keeping things the same; how about "warsawwasraw" (same as gmail password)?
 
Re: what Kylearan said

Since we are not running simultaneous turns we probably should aim at getting a screenshot of the demo-table after each team has played for each turn. If we want to glean anything meaningful we have to pay special attention in the early turns.

mh
 
How do you guys plan to get a screenshot after each individual teams turn? Stay in the game all of the time?
 
Well, from my limited experience from the Apolyton game it seems even the initial turns won't be played quickly. I don't see us rushing through 20 turns in a few days.

And as I said we should aim for getting as many screenshots as possible. I have a demanding job and a family to manage as well, so certainly cannot stay in-game all the time.

We will see how it goes. The task could be spread to more people (Kylearan already said he wants to look into this). Or we just use less screenies and see what we can learn from them.

mh
 
I like the slower pace exactly for the reason that more people can be involved in decision making... and increased time for analysis.

I think we should start a Demo-screen thread just for the purpose of collecting as many screen shots as we can. I'm on Pacific Time (GMT -8) and would be happy to contribute to this effort. I think we've probably got enough people spread around the world to catch the Demo Screen after most team's turns. This will be most valuable for the first 20-50 turns. Then 1 Demo screen pic per turn ought to be plenty.

Like m_h I stay super busy with work and family - but this is my fun diversion and I'll do what I can to contribute. :salute:
 
I would favor NOT chopping much before Math. Chopping before the 50% bonus is giving up a lot...and Math needs to be on the early tech list on the way to Construction anyway.

As Sulla also said...we don't actually know what size map we are on. Our calculations could be off by a factor depending on actual map size. That said, I don't believe there is a reason to not build WB>Worker. After that, next build could be determined by the map.

Chopping a second worker back to back is a good option also.
 
can someone create a test save please? i can if not posted by tmrw. our starting location is DA DOMB for our leader.

we have 4 possible openings. i have my favorite (but won't mention) as i want the team to guide us :)

workboat first
worker first
warrior first
settler first

Are the 4 build openings. Each has a particular tech sequence synergy. Tech is based on build. (though that may seem counter intuitive)

as for chopping / not chopping, that depends on what we reveal in the first 10-15 turns. ;)
 
I prefer worker first. Farm that wheat to make the most out of the time we will be building the work boat. The work boat first means we will work unimproved tiles for how much longer?
 
as soon as someone posts that save i'll give the :commerce: / :hammers: / :food: difference in the builds.
 
Uploaded.

PS CFC has some stupid rules about minimum post length.
 

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I would favor NOT chopping much before Math. Chopping before the 50% bonus is giving up a lot...and Math needs to be on the early tech list on the way to Construction anyway.

As Sulla also said...we don't actually know what size map we are on. Our calculations could be off by a factor depending on actual map size. That said, I don't believe there is a reason to not build WB>Worker. After that, next build could be determined by the map.

Chopping a second worker back to back is a good option also.

Looking at the screenshot Sulla gave us shows that we have to chop atleast 2 forests to mine three hills (assuming the tile 63 of the capital is not forested and is a hill, if neither of those assumptions hold then we have to chop 3 forests). The grassland river forests can be chopped for a total of 60 hammers pre math; I'd rather chop those forests and get 1 extra worker and have those tiles cottaged than an extra 30 hammers (half a worker) roughly 50 turns later.

Main question isn't chopping the hills forests, they have to be chopped because other wise we have at most 3 improveable land tiles, and one of them is the wheat. Chopping the grassland forests comes down to a question of whether we can make up 30 hammers over the course of 50 turns, and I'm pretty sure that we can.
 
can someone create a test save please? i can if not posted by tmrw. our starting location is DA DOMB for our leader.

Indeed it is. 2 food resources that we can hook up without research and lots of forests to jumpstart growth, brilliant for a slow starting leader like Willem :thumbsup: Thanks be to Sullla.


we have 4 possible openings. i have my favorite (but won't mention) as i want the team to guide us :)

workboat first
worker first
warrior first
settler first

Are the 4 build openings. Each has a particular tech sequence synergy. Tech is based on build. (though that may seem counter intuitive)

Settler first is an option? It's slower than wb and worker first if we chop, and a lot more dangerous. Workboat then settler is 1 turns slower in getting the settler, but provides 45 more base commerce. Can't start building a second warrior until turn 21 when a settler is built, requires us to keep the first warrior around to defend the new city, and takes 3 turns to build a warrior from scratch if the <censor> hits the fan, so to say.

Warrior first is slower than workboat first, almost by definition; only thing it provides is added scouting potential, considering we can get a warrior on turn 21

Worker first is about 3 turns behind workboat first, and leaves us with a worker sitting about waiting for us to finish BW if we want to chop, or is just roading to the middle of nowhere (ie the 2nd city site). Takes 12 turns to get a worker from scratch and then a further 8 to get the wb.

wb first is the way to go, but it would be nice to see the exact totals. Also, how are you calculating the gold? I think there may be rounding issues due to bonus beakers from researching techs we have prerequisites to

as for chopping / not chopping, that depends on what we reveal in the first 10-15 turns. ;)

depends if we want the capital to grow above size 2 and not be slaved more like ;)
 
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