Team Bede Gets to Know Each Other

[Ghostwind]

Ok I went ahead with the next 10 moves. Here they are:

2950 BC: WA worker heads S and E. Worker built in NY, next up, warrior. Worker moves S from NY. Scout near furs moves SW. Scout to the east moves S, SE.

2900 BC: WA worker begins to mine grassland. NY worker begins to irrigate flood plain. Scout up by furs moves W twice. Scout E of capitol moves S, encountering Spanish warrior near coast.

2850 BC: Fur Scout moves S twice. Eastern scout moves SW. Washington makes pop 3.

2800 BC: Fur scout moves W twice. Other scout moves SW, continuing through jungle toward the south.

2750 BC: Fur scout moves W twice. Jungle scout moves S. NY worker moves N back into capitol, crossing river.

2710 BC: NY worker moves NW onto grassland. WA worker finishes mine, begins road. Fur scout moves west toward capitol. Jungle scout heads west and spies a goody hut 2 moves SW.

2670 BC: Washington builds granary. Begins spearman build (don't want to send settler out alone with raging barbs, and WA pop will soon be 4, need warrior for MP). Fur scout moves SW, W. Jungle scout enters swamp SW. NY worker begins to mine grassland.

2630 BC: WA pop hits 4. Moved lux slider to 10% to prevent civil disorder next turn. Swamp scout pops goody hut by heading SW, we learn warrior code. Other scout heads past capitol to the west. WA worker finishes road, heads NW.

2590 BC: WA worker begins to mine grassland. Capitol scout heads west into hills. Swamp scout heads south, sees furs and coast. We learn writing in 1 turn so we drop research slider as low as possible to get the gold.

2550 BC: We learn writing. WA builds spearman, allowing us to move lux slider back to 0. WA begins to build settler.
We set research to 100% and begin to research philosophy, will be done in 12 turns. Mayan warrior has appeared to the west of NY across the water. We contact Maya, find that the only tech they have that we don't is the Wheel. Meanwhile, the only tech we can trade is Alphabet. But they won't trade at all. Nothing will entice them. Typical unenlightened barbarians. They are not impressed with letters. Capitol scout moves west further into hills, positioning us to explore south or west. Swamp scout moves south, revealing more coastline.

NY is a press of the enter button from producing a warrior. Feel free to change the production before going to your turn if you (whomever is next) feels this isn't the best idea. NY has no MP at all at the moment, and I was debating changing it to spearman and waiting a couple more turns.

At this point I saved the game. I'll save my ideas on what I would do next for another post. This has gotten rather long.

~Ghostwind

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/TBGTKEA_2550_BC.SAV

 

[Ghostwind]

By the way, that first map was pretty fun. England was close by which forced an early war which I won. No prisoners! I took all their cities. After a period of further expansion and culture development, the Aztecs declared war on me for no apparent reason. I proceeded to take all their lands too, with medieval infantry, no less. I almost NEVER use these units, but the fact that my cities werent developed to a satisfactory level (the war with England) made it necessary to put as many units in the field as fast as I could. Knights just cost too much for small towns. It didn't help that the Aztecs were the heavyweights in the game either. They had the most territory, the biggest population, and the most culture. But I took care of them nevertheless. I know if there was a human playing them I would have been totally finished. Even with the AI, I had to get other civs to help. After the war was over, I was second in tech, only slightly behind Babylon (one of my favorite civs, cept the early GA's) and I had by far the largest empire. I am not usually a big warmonger, but it was a great deal of fun. I had tried to build the Temple of Artemis, but those Aztecs beat me to it and I was forced to settle for the Great Library (I had 4 turns till completion). It may have been a blessing in disguise, because during the the forthcoming war I would need to drop my research to 10% to pick up gold which I used to rush units whenever possible. I babble....

~Ghostwind

 

[Ghostwind]

Can ya tell I'm bored? Sheesh.

 

[residuetiger]

got it!!!

will post my results later this evening

 

[residuetiger]

Ok, As you can see here, Washington is going to grow in 2 and can produce another settler in 5, is that what I should do or build something else. I'm afraid I'm gonna mess something up.

If any of you get this message in the next little bit, give me advice before I continue.

thanks team

res

Washington Screenie

 

[Bede]

Ok umm, I play the next 10 turns with no input from other team members? Aside, of course, for the mandate to expand for the time being?

My goal would be to settle as much land north and east of our capitol as possible, even though those bananas look mighty juicy.

@Ghost, SG protocol allows for 24 hrs to pick up the save and another 24-48 (depending on game rules) to play and post. So waiting for comment after posting your "got it" would be an acceptable, if not desirable move. SG's are built on discussion so the more the better. My expectation for the SGOTM would be lots if inter and intra turn (if needed) commentary. This isn't a race to the finish.

@tiger, looking at the save right now and will comment in a few minutes.

 

[Bede]

@tiger, move the citizen in the forest to the floodplain.

Washington needs to stay at +5fpt at all times. If you keep it that way you will get to the 30s needed for the settler right on schedule, with the mix of terrain we have.

Then just boogy on out to the hill between the mountains, build a town and start a worker.

Pet peeve, do not ever build regular spears unless it is an Always War variant. Build reg warriors for escort and MP duty. They are cheaper and do the job almost as well. Don't sweat the raging barbs, we've pretty well cleared the local camps and the AI will do the rest for us if they are being efficient.

 

[residuetiger]

Alright, I may be off by one turn, too early, but i'm not sure. Let me know.

Here's my summary:

Start Turn: 2550 BC

#1 2550 B.C. Worker finished mine, started road in NY


#2 2510 B.C. continued explorations SW into jungle, and SE along peninsula, NY finishes warrior

#3 2470 B.C. Washington riots, extending our settler to one more turn, sorry i totally missed preventing that, ran up lux to 10%
changed NY to spearman, explorations in jungle SW and SE peninsula continue, SE peninsula explorer stumbles up some gold in the mountains
IBT A polite Mayan envoy approached, looking to trade The Wheel for Alphabet and 17 gold, I'm stalling him until it's our turn, see if he'll deal on our terms.

#4 2430 BC Washinton worker finishes mine on N grassland, begins road, settler from Wash due in two, explorations continue, jungle SW explorer find coast!! the neverending jungle has and end!!! Moved NY worker to gold to begin mining ops

#5 2390 BC washing settler due in one, end of a fertile peninsula of land found by explorers SE, abundant fish, still skirting edge of jungle in SW, meeting with trade envoy from the Mayans, we traded Alphabet and 17 gold for The Wheel, I hope that wasn't a mistake, Spain is not in the trading mood, probably becuase they are broke, and don't seem to have any techs we need

#6 2350 BC we have word that the Spanish are building Collosus, sent an escorted settler from Washington south to Future Sight B, referring to last screenshot i posted, switched production to warrior in NY

#7 2310 BC our explorers of SW jungle found a herd of free-ranging bovine on the other side of jungle, SE explored to end of peninsula, produced a warrior in NY, Spanish military spotted on NY's NE border, they might be probing for weaknesses

met the Koreans on the far SW side of jungle near the free-ranging bovine, we struck up a trade, we obtained Iron Working in exchange for Masonry and The Wheel

#8 2270 BC traded with Mayan nation, I offered them Writing and they gladly supplied us with Mysticism and 60gold

#9 2230 BC Washington gets upset, lowered Science rate to 70% and Lux's up to 20%, having explored the Eastern Coast region, i sent our explorers up to the NW, Washing worker begins irrigation of FP NW of Washington, exploration of SW Coast continues

#10 2190 BC Founded Residueville S of Washington, bringing valuable dyes into our markets, started production on a Warrior right away, another Settler next turn from Washington, Barbarians appear near Residueville

So, I may be wrong on my turn count, but, like I said I was afraid of screwing something up and couldn't decide what to do, I tried to make what I thought were good decisions, but if not, please let me know.

I have the scout to SE heading NW right now, feel free to change that, he's gonna be covering a lot of know territory.

2190BC

save

 

[Bede]

Badda he's up got it.

 

[SpikeIt]

Hey! That Mayan warrior stole one of our blue tunics!

If we just started Philosophy, we could try researching CoL instead and then Philosophy allowing Republic for free. Its a gamble, but if we hold writing for ourselves for a bit, we may have a shot. Just a thought.

I'm unsure why we mined the two bonus grass away from the river before mining the one south of Washington. Its always nice to have extra money, and being on the river gets us an extra coin for the vaults.

We're moving along nicely, but where are we going with this? Eventual domination, I presume?

 

[SpikeIt]

Hey look. Another turn finishes while I post. You have to watch for those riots. A program like CivAssist helps out a lot. Nice job. Seville really came crashing down on our expansion, didn't it? Dirty buggers.

Personally I probably would have placed Residueville 1 tile north. That way we would have had a couple bonus grass to share with Washington which would help for early production. But no matter. If we get those dyes hooked up, that will help out he riot situation. We could probably use another worker at this point and may want think about a rax.

 

[residuetiger]

I like the sound of domination personally!!

 

[Bede]

My knickers are caught in the wringer so TGOMTG is going to get cranky.....but I'll get over it.

1) do not work hills or mountains in despotism and don't work mountains until rails unless you have local food bonuses large eough to overcome the lack of food and maybe not even then.

2) Manage Washington every turn so it stays at +5 food

3) No regular spears, ever, ever, ever. This is not AW, they will never promote.

4) the trading round was adequate but wasteful. I hate being the leader.

5) going for Philosophy before Code of Laws will cost us the Republican gambit and it's too late to change it.

6) The Spanish settlement of Seville will cost us any NE expansion.

So here is the plan: next settler goes 1NW1w1w from Washington to the coast. Lots of desert but it will get to use at least one floodplain. It will build nothing but workers until a harbor can go there.

That town is only there to close the local border so don't waste shields on any improvement but a harbor.

The town after that goes to the iron hill to the SW of Washington. Maybe right on top of the iron. It too will only build workers.

From there we head SW towards the horses and SE towards the gems.

The tech choice is a toughy. The most valuable (Republic) is out of reach. No one has learned Maths yet so the next most expensive (Currency) is also out of reach, that leaves Code of Laws, Polytheism or Map Making.....

Irrigating the flood plain at Washington was a waste as we only need to hold at +5 food. Should have roaded and mined the grassland south.

Philosophy comes in at 2110BC and no one has learned Maths, mostly 'cause almost nobody knows how to Write yet, so Currency is out of the picture, so I take Code of Laws and head for Republic at maximum consonant with contentment (90% losing 1gpt for 42 turns)

Then sell Writing to Hiawatha for 25g.

And in 1990 sell Writing to Isabella for 25g.

Use some of the spare cash to open embassies as I don't want too much spare change lying around to tempt the neighbors.

That leaves 39g in the treasury at a burn rate of -1 for 35 turns to Republic.

In 1950 found Philadelphia on the coast, and get another settler from Washington.

In 1830 learn Horseback Riding from the Saxons in the west north of Korea but lose a scout to the Olmecs.

In 1750 as my last official acts relieve the Iroquois of 47g for Philosophy, kill an Olmec raider, and move the settler towards the twin lakes with the gems and bananas. The settler on the iron remains unmoved.

Settle the settler now departing Washington right on the gems at the neck of the lakes.

Washington is building a warrior as I expect more Olmecs to show from the south so when he is done dispatch the arriving warrior down that a way. New York is building a worker as it is now unhappy without lots of lux tax and doesn't need to be bigger than three or four to build its warriors. At some point New York needs a barracks but it needs to be building warriors more now as we do indeed need escorts.

Do not irigate the deserts, mine them instead but not yet.

Some settlement suggestions:

SpikeIt - up
azzaman333 - on deck
Ghostwind - impatient warmonger
residuetiger - made his debut and held his own
Bede - got his knickers knotted

So so far so good. More discussion will help keep my shorts loose. Watch the worker assignments carfeully and choose food and gold over shields. And make sure the citizens are working high value fields +1f+1g if possible.

 

[SpikeIt]

My knickers are caught in the wringer so TGOMTG is going to get cranky.....but I'll get over it.

I doubt this is going to be your first cranky turnset with this team.

5) going for Philosophy before Code of Laws will cost us the Republican gambit and it's too late to change it.

Agreed. I cross posted with ResidueTiger's turn. Its too late now.

Settle the settler now departing Washington right on the gems at the neck of the lakes.

That spot sounds fine to me. The Iron settler I'm thinking would be best off of the iron and either in the red dotted spot or the spot SW of current position. Both spots will pull the bananas giving at least minimal growth since we are mired in the jungle there anyhow.

As for the eastern spots, the southern red dot, I'm thinking may be best served actually on the bananas one NW. It does pull it away from the other jungle bananas, but it will have some grass and can immediately work the bonus grass and possibly forest in Washington's cultural sphere. The other bananas will be picked up soon enough once we settle farther east in Jungleland. I understand the importance of food and gold, but don't we need at least some production or production potential? Just curious.

I'll pick this up tonight. Let the discussions commence!

 

[Bede]

I doubt this is going to be your first cranky turnset with this team.


Agreed. I cross posted with ResidueTiger's turn. Its too late now.



That spot sounds fine to me. The Iron settler I'm thinking would be best off of the iron and either in the red dotted spot or the spot SW of current position. Both spots will pull the bananas giving at least minimal growth since we are mired in the jungle there anyhow.

As for the eastern spots, the southern red dot, I'm thinking may be best served actually on the bananas one NW. It does pull it away from the other jungle bananas, but it will have some grass and can immediately work the bonus grass and possibly forest in Washington's cultural sphere. The other bananas will be picked up soon enough once we settle farther east in Jungleland. I understand the importance of food and gold, but don't we need at least some production or production potential? Just curious.

I'll pick this up tonight. Let the discussions commence!

I picked the red dot for the river (noo need for acqueduct) but on NW looks even better as it will be a while to po6 there anyway what with all the jungle.

The settler on the iron should stay on the coast as we are right close to Map Making (someone will research it soon I hope) and we can build a harbor.

The Spanish are going to come trespassing with warriors soon. Ignore them, or even give Isabella an RoP so they will get off our roads sooner.

Korea is to the way south, Maya north of Korea. Don't know yet where Haiwatha hangs out.

ONe of the reasons to open the emabssies early is to get the map position of hte other guy's capitol and maybe a look at his other cities as well. Though not so often at Monarch as the AI tends to settle widely since they have no starting settlers.

 

[Ghostwind]

It's been my experience that if I go the philosophy route and try to get CoL first, more than 50% of the time someone beats me to the punch (at least on monarch). Also, I thought philosophy ASAP was the plan. On large maps I usually have no chance to get to phil first anyhow. I usually don't even try. However, it being a small map I thought it was worth it.

I built the mine to the east of WA because I planned on building a road to the gems to lessen civil unrest. I usually do this sort of thing ASAP. I also thought the plan was to settle N and E so roads in those directions near WA would be helpful.

Changing to republic with no marketplaces seems to hinder more than help my strategy, so I generally take Map Making and move on to Literature and make my decision on whether to take Monarchy or the Republic at a later date when I know more about my neighbors and their tendencies and I have stopped expanding and am busy building infrastructure. If anyone can tell me a way to switch to Republic and be successful early in game I would be much much much more than grateful.

The reason I use spearmen is their rather cheap upgradeability to pikemen. Warriors don't upgrade cheaply, IMO. One or two spearmen built without a barracks does not really upset me too much. I am sorry it does you, Bede. I'll remember that when it comes time for the real game.

Just an observation from anecdotal evidence, but I've had a regular spearmen hold off 4 or 5 barbarians and end up elite by the end. Warriors usually fall in the first attack. Am I thinking about some other unit? Why wouldn't they promote?

I don't like to gamble that the AI will take care of business, either. It seems an unwise policy to me. In the end, however, I will defer to your to wishes.

From now on I will wait at least 24 hrs before taking my turn. However, I do want to feel part of the process rather than feeling like I am just doing what I am told.

Please don't take offense. I will contain myself from here on out.

~Ghostwind

 

[Ghostwind]

As far as the settling prospects, I agree witht the red dot SE of Washington.

Normally, I would settle the red dot east of WA one tile east of that. I am not used to settling cities so close together.

I also agree with the red dot SW of Philly, but shouldn't we try to settle across the lake from WA to the NE as well?

MY strategy would have been to stifle Spains expansion as much as possible from the start.

What are all your feelings about Wonders? Will we be trying to build some in the AA or wait till the MA?

I never play raging barbs. Usually I have it set to roaming. I thought barbs would be a huge problem, but it doesn't appear to be so. Even on roaming I end up fending off huge stacks of horsemen once in a while. They can be quite a nuisance. I figured on raging it would doubly so.

~Ghostwind

 

[Bede]

It's been my experience that if I go the philosophy route and try to get CoL first, more than 50% of the time someone beats me to the punch (at least on monarch). Also, I thought philosophy ASAP was the plan. On large maps I usually have no chance to get to phil first anyhow. I usually don't even try. However, it being a small map I thought it was worth it.

As I rarely play maps larger than standard you are no doubt right about the philosophy gambit. But this is a small map and if you take advantage of the riverside commerce the CoL-Philsosphy-Republic gamble usually (more than 50%) will pay off on Monarch even on a standard map if you start with Alphabet. It boils down to how many nations start with Alphabet. The key is to take the commerce first so you can keep the research humming.

I built the mine to the east of WA because I planned on building a road to the gems to lessen civil unrest. I usually do this sort of thing ASAP. I also thought the plan was to settle N and E so roads in those directions near WA would be helpful.

Not a bad call at all but the road and moine to the south would have been marginally more powerful.

Changing to republic with no marketplaces seems to hinder more than help my strategy, so I generally take Map Making and move on to Literature and make my decision on whether to take Monarchy or the Republic at a later date when I know more about my neighbors and their tendencies and I have stopped expanding and am busy building infrastructure. If anyone can tell me a way to switch to Republic and be successful early in game I would be much much much more than grateful.

Republic too early can hurt, but is is the most valuable of the AA techs so the trade value is immense. If you have Republic as a monopoly or near monopoly then you can often get a jump on the expensive MA knowledge.
And owning the knowledge doesn't mean you have to revolt, though I will often do it early because than the pain is less.

The reason I use spearmen is their rather cheap upgradeability to pikemen. Warriors don't upgrade cheaply, IMO. One or two spearmen built without a barracks does not really upset me too much. I am sorry it does you, Bede. I'll remember that when it comes time for the real game.

Regular spears are a necessity in Always War variants. Any other game they are a waste. I would rather have two warriors than a spear anytime. Pikes are only marginally better than a spear (again this does not apply to AW). Warriors are costly to upgrade but you can kill things with swords and maces.

Just an observation from anecdotal evidence, but I've had a regular spearmen hold off 4 or 5 barbarians and end up elite by the end. Warriors usually fall in the first attack. Am I thinking about some other unit? Why wouldn't they promote?

A little exaggeration on my part I'm afraid.

I don't like to gamble that the AI will take care of business, either. It seems an unwise policy to me. In the end, however, I will defer to your to wishes.

The AI are very efficient at hunting down barbarians if noAIPatrol=0 is in your conquests.ini file. And as long as there are barbarians around and some open land you never have to worry about AI sneak attacks. When those two things are missing then look out.

At the era change you have to look out, which is why is a good idea to keep a couple of archers out hunting down camps in the immediate area. Other than that kind of measure I don't ever worry about barbs.

Please don't take offense. I will contain myself from here on out.

No offense taken and always make your best call on what to do. Certainly none meant on my part. They don't call me TGOMTG for no reason. Wait 'till you hear the temple rant and please respond in kind if you feel like it.

 

[residuetiger]

Well, I knew this would be a learning experience!!

The diamond city spot looks good, those diamonds will be good for trading and making our people happy, that's always a good thing.

Bede, i hope you're not upset with us?

3) No regular spears, ever, ever, ever. This is not AW, they will never promote.

4) the trading round was adequate but wasteful. I hate being the leader.

Could you be a little more specific on what we could have done better on our trades? And as for the spears, I guess I'm just defence oriented, but is it just because they won't get promoted that we don't build them, or are they that much more expensive than Warriors?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but you said you wanted discussion, and here it is folks!!!

residue

 

[SpikeIt]

Got the save. Will start in a few.