Tech Tree Discussion

I found that there are 4 unused techs on - its said on beginning (2012 year) of thread, when mod had "only" 500 techs.

That's an old number. I count 499 right now, and that's without the Charters/Constitution split, and without the "weird quartet" of Cold Fusion, Global Governance, Religion, and Special Promotion.
Click to expand...

No idea if Religion and Special Promotion fake techs are still here.
I know Cold Fusion is here to dump unwanted/unfinished and possibly for testing purposes only stuff on it).

Global Governance sounds like it could unlock total unification of civs.
Or it would enable UN action called "Unite world", where civics would wote if they want to form world goverment.
This way you could work toward world goverment.
So it could be Nanotech/Transhuman tech, where solar system colonization is underway

Edit: Checked my save with everything researched, and there are several dummies.
Spoiler Dummy techs :

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Cold fusion is basically trash bin.
But what is purpose for other dummy techs?
Also Special Promotion dummy was removed it seems.
 
Last edited:
raxo2222 said:
But what is purpose for other dummy techs?
Also Special Promotion dummy was removed it seems.
Click to expand...
Removed and replaced. It's a promotion thing, along with other occasional needs.
 
I kinda like the idea of bringing Cold Fusion back into the game. It would be the main energy production tech of the Transhuman Era. It was used way back in the Next War mod.
 
pepper2000 said:
I kinda like the idea of bringing Cold Fusion back into the game. It would be the main energy production tech of the Transhuman Era. It was used way back in the Next War mod.
Click to expand...
Well fusion occurs, if atoms have enough speed to overcome most of coulumb repulsion (quantum tunneling helps with it)
So cold fusion would need some heavy spacewarping/quantum tunneling boost/reduction of EM repulsion to work making it Cosmic/Transcedant tech - cold fusion is fusion at low temperature, that is when atoms move relatively slowly.
 
There's also the original muon-catalyzed fusion concept, which has been shown to produce nuclear fusion at room temperature. The problem is that muons are unstable and there is no known process for producing them for less energy than would be generated by the fusion.
 
pepper2000 said:
There's also the original muon-catalyzed fusion concept, which has been shown to produce nuclear fusion at room temperature. The problem is that muons are unstable and there is no known process for producing them for less energy than would be generated by the fusion.
Click to expand...
Still sounds like at least Galactic era tech with this elementary particle manipulation.
This could be somewhere after Attotechnology or even Zeptotechnology.
 
So what about making Mountaineering and Coast Guard being required for other techs?
Currently they are dead end.
Spoiler :

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Mountaineering could be required for Astronomy - you need peak or hill to build observatory.
Coast Guard would be needed for Deep Sea Exploration or Tourism for example.

All other techs except religions, punks and two building requiring techs are needed to research last tech in tech tree.
 
Mountaineering is an optional tech so it can't be made to be required. Coast Guard ... yeah we could probably make it a prereq for Deep Sea Exploration or Tourism or something.

However, DH would prefer to have more techs that aren't a prereq for anything else. I'm not sure I disagree with him.
 
Mountaineering does a lot of stuff for optional tech... Is that tech added by "usable mountains" gameoption?

Why that option isn't by default on and hidden?
 
Thunderbrd said:
Mountaineering is an optional tech so it can't be made to be required. Coast Guard ... yeah we could probably make it a prereq for Deep Sea Exploration or Tourism or something.

However, DH would prefer to have more techs that aren't a prereq for anything else. I'm not sure I disagree with him.
Click to expand...

I highly disagree. Especially the farther you get away from the tech. I agree that during the era you don't have to take every tech to finish the era but eventually down the line those techs should be needed. Especially as you get into the modern era and beyond. Just because you don't have a coastline doesn't mean you cannot benefit from the knowledge of a coast guard. Perhaps it could lead to say some sort of Orbital Defense tech where orbit to a coastline.
 
Hydromancerx said:
I highly disagree. Especially the farther you get away from the tech. I agree that during the era you don't have to take every tech to finish the era but eventually down the line those techs should be needed. Especially as you get into the modern era and beyond. Just because you don't have a coastline doesn't mean you cannot benefit from the knowledge of a coast guard. Perhaps it could lead to say some sort of Orbital Defense tech where orbit to a coastline.
Click to expand...
Not even during the era. If the tech not will be beneficial until much later, even much later, why study it then. Why be forced to study it "in its place"? It is a waste or research points that could be used catching up with the leader.

The example I always use is the horse/elephant/camel one. Currently you need all three to progress even if you don't have access to those animals. It would be better imo if they were OR requirements to that progression. The various units would require both the correct one of those three as well as the latter techs. If you have the techs Camel Domestication and Mounted Archery you can build Camel Archers (still need Camels) but not Horse Archers until you study that tech.

Not having access to any mount should not stop you getting Electricity. It should just put you at a disadvantage in war and the transport of goods.
 
I have been listening to some Space Colonization videos. One was about Mars and provided the various methods to colonizing Mars. From Domed Farms to full on Terraforming. However one method seemed very cool that I don't think we have. And they called it "Bioforming". Basically it genetically engineering species to be able to survive on the surface of Mars either as it is now or with lesser Terraforming. So I looked on our tech tree and I think I have the perfect spot for it.

Bioforming (NEW)
Location: X22 Y13
Req Tech: Extraterrestrial Agriculture AND Artificial Life
Features: Allows you to Grow special Martian Adapted Crops, Animals and Biomes directly on the surface of Mars without needing to Terraform it first.
Units: Bioformed Human Worker and/or Military Unit who can survive on the planet without a space suit.

Extraterrestrial Agriculture
Location; X21 Y13 (Moved back 1 column)

Astroecology
Req Tech: Subterranean Exploration AND Bioforming
 
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Hydromancerx said:
Bioforming (NEW)
Location: X22 Y13
Req Tech: Extraterrestrial Agriculture AND Artificial Life
Features: Allows you to Grow special Martian Adapted Crops, Animals and Biomes directly on the surface of Mars without needing to Terraform it first.
Units: Bioformed Human Worker and/or Military Unit who can survive on the planet without a space suit.
Click to expand...

It's a neat idea. Thanks for linking the video because it looks like there are a lot of other interesting things there I have the channel bookmarked now.

This is the sort of thing I meant to capture with the Paraterraforming tech. It also allows for the design of artificial ecosystems in domed asteroids. There is also Martian ecosystem material at Quadruple Helix (partly because what else is supposed to go there?) and Hypothetical Biochemistry, where you can start engineering microbes in exotic environments. And adaptation of humans for Moon and Mars comes at Artificial Evolution.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Not even during the era. If the tech not will be beneficial until much later, even much later, why study it then. Why be forced to study it "in its place"? It is a waste or research points that could be used catching up with the leader.

The example I always use is the horse/elephant/camel one. Currently you need all three to progress even if you don't have access to those animals. It would be better imo if they were OR requirements to that progression. The various units would require both the correct one of those three as well as the latter techs. If you have the techs Camel Domestication and Mounted Archery you can build Camel Archers (still need Camels) but not Horse Archers until you study that tech.

Not having access to any mount should not stop you getting Electricity. It should just put you at a disadvantage in war and the transport of goods.
Click to expand...
I tend to fall on your side on this. I think it would be cooler if you have a map that doesn't have any bodies of water, you shouldn't need any naval techs, as another example. Really try to model different tech discovery paths and don't try to make it so that you can select the last tech and assume all techs will be researched.
 
pepper2000 said:
It's a neat idea. Thanks for linking the video because it looks like there are a lot of other interesting things there I have the channel bookmarked now.

This is the sort of thing I meant to capture with the Paraterraforming tech. It also allows for the design of artificial ecosystems in domed asteroids. There is also Martian ecosystem material at Quadruple Helix (partly because what else is supposed to go there?) and Hypothetical Biochemistry, where you can start engineering microbes in exotic environments. And adaptation of humans for Moon and Mars comes at Artificial Evolution.
Click to expand...

Yeah Isaac Arthur's videos are amazing! I only have listened to a handful of them while working on stuff or just laying down and relaxing. Two I recently listened to were about the Space Elevators and Skyhooks. While we already have space elevators you should watch the Skyhook one since it seems like a near future technology that we don't represent yet.

As for Paraterraforming tech i was not sure if it out even Extraterrestrial Agriculture already covered this concept. Again the whole Bioforming is basically the opposite of Terraforming, in that rather than making Mars like Earth you make us and the species we bring with us more like Mars. Its sorta of like the Alpha Centauri faction that embraced the aliens on the planet they landed on. Except with Mars the are embracing the physical environment of Mars.
 
Moved this from bug report:

CaoDai is bit too expensive for its column (last Industrial era column)
All other techs in that column like Compulsory Education or Mass Transist have 54024 cost (Normal/Settler/Gigantic oopsie), while CaoDai has cost of 63656
By the way CaoDai still can't be founded by Great Prophet and its wonder isn't buildable by same unit - no such action button.
Agrichemicals tech - Modern Era - doesn't do anything.
 
raxo2222 said:
Moved this from bug report:

CaoDai is bit too expensive for its column (last Industrial era column)
All other techs in that column like Compulsory Education or Mass Transist have 54024 cost (Normal/Settler/Gigantic oopsie), while CaoDai has cost of 63656
By the way CaoDai still can't be founded by Great Prophet and its wonder isn't buildable by same unit - no such action button.
Agrichemicals tech - Modern Era - doesn't do anything.
Click to expand...
Post this in the bugs and crashes thread please
 
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