Tech Tree Discussion

[Little Abigail]

Not that I can see. It was just Applied Economics.

Tech tree is looking good now, btw. Seeing as teching up is what I spend most of my focus on and I'm a giant history nerd, this will be very nice for me.

 

[ls612]

@Vokarya:

I would still push for Fission to be the transition tech from Industrial to Modern, but other than that it looks really good.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

I was noticing that with the movement of Machine Tools it messes up a few things such as the Jeep coming WAY before Motorized Transportation. Also I think the modern Crane gets moved back so there is almost no gap between the Steam Crane and it. I am wondering if what the tech was intended to be is different from how you see it as.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya

I was noticing that with the movement of Machine Tools it messes up a few things such as the Jeep coming WAY before Motorized Transportation. Also I think the modern Crane gets moved back so there is almost no gap between the Steam Crane and it. I am wondering if what the tech was intended to be is different from how you see it as.

I was going to fix the Jeep so that it would come as Mechanized Warfare. Right now it requires Machine Tools + Automatic Weapons + Electronics, so Electronics is the primary governing tech. I'd like it to come sooner than the Modern Age.

Modern Crane also requires Electronics. I'm fine with keeping it there and dropping the Machine Tools tech requirement, or maybe we move it to Manufacturing.

I think what the current Machine Tools tech is supposed to be is numerical control machines, which I'm thinking better fits the Manufacturing technology, since I can't seem to find anything else that fits.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

Well in RoM/AND all I could find under that tech was International Port and Jeep. The Modern Crane was put there because of the International Port. So that's about all I can surmise from the meaning of that tech.

In addition the way it use to be set up in RoM/AND was ...

Machine Tools
Req Techs: Industrialism AND Motorized Transportation
Leads To: Aviation, Radar, Mechanized Warfare, Logistics

Even with that it seems kind of vague. Your "numerical control" stuff seems as good as any.

EDIT: In Realism Invictus mod, Machine Tools tech requires Steam Power AND Civil Industry AND Farming Mechanization. I am not sure if that helps you.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya

Well in RoM/AND all I could find under that tech was International Port and Jeep. The Modern Crane was put there because of the International Port. So that's about all I can surmise from the meaning of that tech.

In addition the way it use to be set up in RoM/AND was ...

Machine Tools
Req Techs: Industrialism AND Motorized Transportation
Leads To: Aviation, Radar, Mechanized Warfare, Logistics

Even with that it seems kind of vague. Your "numerical control" stuff seems as good as any.

EDIT: In Realism Invictus mod, Machine Tools tech requires Steam Power AND Civil Industry AND Farming Mechanization. I am not sure if that helps you.

I was going by this to place Machine Tools, and using the earlier definition. I admit that the tech is very vague. The new placement is pretty much at the same place RI is: Civil Industry, Farming Mechanization, and Steam Power are all starting techs for the Industrial Era, and we're placing more emphasis on running as much of the Industrial Era as we can through Steam Power.

So I really don't know, but I think it would be better with Machine Tools at the beginning of the era, we move the content that was there to other techs, and then we find some appropriate content for the early placement.

 

[Little Abigail]

Did the Modern Era changes ever get committed to the SVN yet?

 

[Vokarya]

Did the Modern Era changes ever get committed to the SVN yet?

Not yet. I'm working out a Parts Maker building that will be a precursor to the Parts Plant, so that you can have something you can build as soon as you reach Machine Tools, instead of having to wait until you get to Steel for the Steel resource for the Parts Plant. I should have it uploaded by tomorrow.

 

[Little Abigail]

Ah. Fair enough.

 

[Vokarya]

Ah. Fair enough.

It's committed now. I changed a few other things to account for the changes to the Industrial Era, but there still may be some things that need tweaking. Let me know if you see anything that doesn't make sense now.

 

[Little Abigail]

I play on snail, so it will take me a bit to get there, but will do.

 

[ls612]

It's committed now. I changed a few other things to account for the changes to the Industrial Era, but there still may be some things that need tweaking. Let me know if you see anything that doesn't make sense now.

Cool, that means that we've redone every era on the tech tree this year. Let's hope that we don't need to go through that again for a while.

 

[Vokarya]

Cool, that means that we've redone every era on the tech tree this year. Let's hope that we don't need to go through that again for a while.

I don't think we've redone the Modern Era yet. I would like to do some rearrangement there; column X70 wound up as a sort of "holding pen" for technologies that I moved from the Industrial Era to the Modern, and I'd like to spread the techs out between the columns better (X72 and X74 are pretty sparse, while X73 and X75 are full). The prerequisite paths are fine for the Modern Era; I'm looking at something that comes down to a straight rearrangement and a new cost scheme.

The other thing that we discussed but never followed up on is moving the Lunar techs out of the Galactic Era and into the Transhuman Era, so that the Transhuman Era includes at least basic inter-solar system (Moon, Mars, asteroid mining) colonization and saving the Galactic Era for extrasolar work. If we move most of the Lunar techs backwards (I'm looking at Lunar Colonization, Lunar Manufacturing, Lunar Trade, and Lunar Tourism, saving Lunar Megastructures for the Galactic Era), we will have some fairly large gaps in the Galactic Era and I think we can move the Transhuman and early Galactic Eras a few columns upward to make room for spreading out the Modern Era a little bit. I'd really like two more columns in the Modern Era to keep the techs that are on the same difficulty level (in terms of their distance from the founding techs of the era) in separate columns. The current Modern Era is 8 levels deep, but I'd like to spread levels 2-7 over two columns each, for a total of 14 columns. The Modern Era tech tree is only 12 columns wide at the moment.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

This sounds good. I recently updated the online tech tree with your chnages. As long as you do one era at a time so I can keep up, I am fine with it. And as I said to SO ...

Vokarya has done a great job with reorganizing the tree and avoiding redundancies. Not to mention put techs at more historical dates. I trust his judgement. If there is a problem I let him know it.

So thank you Vokarya for spending so much time on the tech tree. I personally know how daunting it can be to reorganize it. You seem to have a natural talent for it. We are very lucky to have you on the C2C team.

 

[strategyonly]

@Vokarya
We are very lucky to have you on the C2C team.

My sentiments, exactly

 

[Little Abigail]

Not even part of the team and I also agree.

Just going through the earlier eras he rebalanced and things are flowing much smoother.

Hopefully after he redoes the Modern Era we can finally get some buildings and such in all the multiple empty Transhuman techs. It's kinda tedious to go through so many techs with basically zero reward. Though this may be something for another topic.

 

[strategyonly]

Not even part of the team and I also agree.

Just going through the earlier eras he rebalanced and things are flowing much smoother.

Hopefully after he redoes the Modern Era we can finally get some buildings and such in all the multiple empty Transhuman techs. It's kinda tedious to go through so many techs with basically zero reward. Though this may be something for another topic.

Well actually i believe Hydro, has a list for the TransHuman era set, but is kinda behind on then for LATER era's (I think)?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well actually i believe Hydro, has a list for the TransHuman era set, but is kinda behind on then for LATER era's (I think)?

Some of the newer techs I don't have anything for. However as I put in stuff under the ones I do know I suspect the other techs will more easily be filled in. Not to mention other people on the team have some great ideas for stuff. Its much more of a collaborative effort compared to when I started C2C with SO and DH.

EDIT: Much of the later eras really depend upon the Multi-Maps though. Once they are in then it will be much clearer on what to put in. If they for some reason get canceled I do have a plan B. However its not nearly as awesome as with Multi-Maps.

 

[ls612]

Some of the newer techs I don't have anything for. However as I put in stuff under the ones I do know I suspect the other techs will more easily be filled in. Not to mention other people on the team have some great ideas for stuff. Its much more of a collaborative effort compared to when I started C2C with SO and DH.

EDIT: Much of the later eras really depend upon the Multi-Maps though. Once they are in then it will be much clearer on what to put in. If they for some reason get canceled I do have a plan B. However its not nearly as awesome as with Multi-Maps.

We certainly need to start adding buildings and mechanics to the TH era. Orbital buildings was one of the mechanics that I felt would be good for the TH era, but there are others (cyberwarfare for instance) that I'm waiting for AIAndy to make an 'effect' system for.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya

This sounds good. I recently updated the online tech tree with your chnages. As long as you do one era at a time so I can keep up, I am fine with it. And as I said to SO ...

I was looking at the online tech tree and I noticed that everything that you have in X65 needs to be moved down one row (Propaganda is X65 Y3 and it moves down from there). I'm redoing my spreadsheets because I want to do a little work on the Modern Era and I need a base to work from. I'll repost them to the Modders' Documentation thread once I get them done.