Tech Tree Discussion

[Hydromancerx]

We certainly need to start adding buildings and mechanics to the TH era. Orbital buildings was one of the mechanics that I felt would be good for the TH era, but there are others (cyberwarfare for instance) that I'm waiting for AIAndy to make an 'effect' system for.

Yeah in short term I wanted to add the "Great Firewall" wonder that MrAzure suggested back when he was around. I am wondering if I should hand it off to Vokarya since he seems to make Wonders a bit more "Wondrous".

 

[Vokarya]

So everyone knows, I think are there are three things left that I would like to do to the Modern and Transhuman Era Tech Trees, and then I think that will be the end (unless we decide to add more techs). I don't think this will take that long to do, now that I have so much experience from reworking the previous eras.

Here's what's on my list to do:

• Rework the Modern Era the way I did the Renaissance and Industrial Eras. I'm doing the technology dating the way I did the previous two eras; some techs are proving extremely slippery. Globalization and Derivatives are really hard to pin down. I think the issue with Globalization is that it is trying to represent two things: early Modern Era implementation of international organizations (United Nations, GATT, World Bank -- much of which was negotiated during WWII and implemented just after) and mid-Modern Era corporate globalization (especially after the abandonment of Bretton-Woods).
• Rearrange the Transhuman Era so that the columns match up with the difficulty of reaching a particular techs. I have some issues here with techs that are way out of place. I don't think there will be any changing of prerequisites here, as I don't know enough to really change things.
• Move the basic Lunar techs into the Transhuman Era: Lunar Colonization, Lunar Manufacturing, Lunar Tourism, and Lunar Trade. I've figured that this can be done with one new technology (Asteroid Mining, as a precursor to Asteroid Extraction) and moving about 12 techs into the Transhuman Era.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I will withhold my judgement until I see how it looks. But so far it sounds fine. As for techs that don't fit or are vague then just use where they are as a guide. Such as if it requires tech A and B then it should be close to where those techs are located. But you seem to have a better nack at this than me. I trust your judgement.

 

[Vokarya]

I will withhold my judgement until I see how it looks. But so far it sounds fine. As for techs that don't fit or are vague then just use where they are as a guide. Such as if it requires tech A and B then it should be close to where those techs are located. But you seem to have a better nack at this than me. I trust your judgement.

I'm looking carefully at tech prerequisites (and Civilopedia text) to figure out exactly what certain techs are supposed to represent. I think I've got most of the early Modern Era dated, but there are still a few techs in the late Modern that I haven't pinned down yet, and there will be some modification for gameplay purposes (Deep Sea Exploration, for example. I have it currently dated to 1948 and the invention of the bathyscaphe, but I think I will be placing it after Manufacturing, so it corresponds closer to 1960 and the Expedition to Challenger Deep.)

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'm looking carefully at tech prerequisites (and Civilopedia text) to figure out exactly what certain techs are supposed to represent. I think I've got most of the early Modern Era dated, but there are still a few techs in the late Modern that I haven't pinned down yet, and there will be some modification for gameplay purposes (Deep Sea Exploration, for example. I have it currently dated to 1948 and the invention of the bathyscaphe, but I think I will be placing it after Manufacturing, so it corresponds closer to 1960 and the Expedition to Challenger Deep.)

Good call.

 

[Little Abigail]

That sounds fine to me.

 

[ls612]

THe first two points look pretty good to me, but regarding the Lunar techs, I would be strongly against them being all at the end of the TH era. Here is what I think should happen for Moon stuff.

• In the Modern Era you can research "Lunar Missions" at the Lunar Exploration tech, which allows you to go to the lunar map (and unlocks the Apollo Project) This brings Multi-Maps into people's games sooner, and gives a taste of things to come. Note that this would only allow you to explore, not to actually exploit the Moon's resources
• In the TH era you can start using the stuff on the moon (helium 3, etc). Lunar Colonization would be moved to the earlier TH era (after Commercial Spaceflight and Controlled Plasma), and allow you to start SMALL cities on the moon (like the Prehistoric Era, you can't expand at all). Lunar Manufacturing should be moved to just after Fusion (helium 3 anyone?).
• The Galactic Era lunar techs can remain how they are for now. We'll also need to make techs for colonizing other parts of the Solar System (rocky and gas giants). Currently the only tech like that is Jovian exploration, but we'll need techs for colonizing rocky planets as well.

How does that sound?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

I thought that's what Vokarya was saying.

 

[ls612]

@ls612

I thought that's what Vokarya was saying.

Sort of, I guess. I need to read more I suppose. We do need to add other techs for Solar System Colonization though in the TH era.

 

[Hydromancerx]

We do need to add other techs for Solar System Colonization though in the TH era.

I think it all depends upon how well the multi-maps work out. Play testing for balance should let us know how things should flow.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm doing some work on the Modern Era right now, and I noticed that the Motorsports tech should probably be in the Industrial Era. Specifically, you have 3 of the biggest races all operating prior to 1930, which definitely puts it into the Industrial Era:

• Indianapolis 500 starts in 1911
• 24 Hours of Le Mans starts in 1923
• Monaco Grand Prix starts in 1929

This, to me, puts Motorsports in the Industrial. I am thinking X62 Y15, right next to Motorized Transportation and Mass Transit, and dropping the Modern Sports prerequisite. What do you think?

 

[Alex Costa]

I'm doing some work on the Modern Era right now, and I noticed that the Motorsports tech should probably be in the Industrial Era. Specifically, you have 3 of the biggest races all operating prior to 1930, which definitely puts it into the Industrial Era:

• Indianapolis 500 starts in 1911
• 24 Hours of Le Mans starts in 1923
• Monaco Grand Prix starts in 1929

This, to me, puts Motorsports in the Industrial. I am thinking X62 Y15, right next to Motorized Transportation and Mass Transit, and dropping the Modern Sports prerequisite. What do you think?

Why not have a wonder at Motor Sports named F1 World Championship?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'm doing some work on the Modern Era right now, and I noticed that the Motorsports tech should probably be in the Industrial Era. Specifically, you have 3 of the biggest races all operating prior to 1930, which definitely puts it into the Industrial Era:

• Indianapolis 500 starts in 1911
• 24 Hours of Le Mans starts in 1923
• Monaco Grand Prix starts in 1929

This, to me, puts Motorsports in the Industrial. I am thinking X62 Y15, right next to Motorized Transportation and Mass Transit, and dropping the Modern Sports prerequisite. What do you think?

Sounds fine to me. Remember the Sports were set up mostly by Afforess even though they were my requests (before I learned to mod). So I am all for more historiclly accurate locations on the tech tree.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

Could you move Species Uplifting tech? I think it is better in Trans-Human Era than the Galactic Era. This is what I am thinking ...

Species Uplifting
Location: X93 Y7
Req Techs: Universal Translator AND Cybernetics

Other Changed techs ....

Homo Superior
Req Techs: Species Uplifting AND Biomimetics

Astroanthropology
Req Techs: Interstellar Colonization AND Sentient Earth AND Astroecology

Thanks in Advance!

 

[Vokarya]

Sounds fine to me. Remember the Sports were set up mostly by Afforess even though they were my requests (before I learned to mod). So I am all for more historiclly accurate locations on the tech tree.

I wouldn't know about the history of the placements. I'll move it once I get everything worked out -- there's some interlock going on between spreading out the Modern Era, rearranging the Transhuman, and maybe moving some Galactic up a bit in order to make room.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya

Could you move Species Uplifting tech? I think it is better in Trans-Human Era than the Galactic Era. This is what I am thinking ...

Species Uplifting
Location: X93 Y7
Req Techs: Universal Translator AND Cybernetics

Other Changed techs ....

Homo Superior
Req Techs: Species Uplifting AND Biomimetics

Astroanthropology
Req Techs: Interstellar Colonization AND Sentient Earth AND Astroecology

Thanks in Advance!

That shouldn't be a problem, but I won't be able to do it until I get to the Transhuman Era. I need to finish laying out the new Modern Era, then rearrange the Transhuman. I'll leave space for all of this and the Lunar techs.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm still working out the new prerequisites for the Modern Era, but I'd like to start posting what I'm going to do. Here is the timeline of the early Modern Era, 1947-1955. The final tree is not going to look like this exactly, but here's what I'm trying to model. Italic technologies are the really broad ones so they can fit just about anywhere, or are otherwise going to get some modification. The reason for this cutoff is that 1957 is the real beginning of the Space Age (Advanced Rocketry and Satellites).

Tech Date Event
Aerodynamics 1947 Bell X-1 first supersonic plane
Electronics 1947 Transistor invented
Modern Physics 1947 Quantum electrodynamics coined
Atompunk 1948 First Soviet bomb test
Deep Sea Exploration 1948 Bathyscaphe invented
Globalization 1948 GATT goes into effect
Television 1948 US TV networks (CBS, NBC, ABC, DuMont) established
Computers 1951 UNIVAC first mass-produced computer
Mass Media 1951 United States has coast-to-coast television service
Vertical Flight 1951 K-225 first gas turbine-powered helicopter
Jet Propulsion 1952 de Havilland Comet, first purpose-built jet airliner
Manufacturing 1952 Numerical Control machines patented
Pop Art 1952 Independent Group formed
Tourism 1952 Mass media and jet airliners open up travel to masses
Molecular Biology 1953 DNA molecule structure discovered
Scientology 1953 Church of Scientology incorporated
Biological Warfare 1954 Plum Island facility established
Long-Range Forecasting 1954 First routine real-time weather forecasting
Modern Health Care 1954 First organ transplant
Nuclear Power 1954 Obninsk Nuclear Power Plant first nuclear plant on power grid
Solar Power 1954 Silicon solar cell invented
Supersonic Flight 1954 Supersonic fighter aircraft in use
Minority Rights 1955 Beginning of the Civil Rights movement in the US

I think the biggest change here is Globalization; I'm using it for the international organizations following World War II (United Nations, GATT, International Monetary Fund). This is going to be one of the kickoff technologies of the Modern Era. I'd like to move both the International Monetary Fund/World Bank (from Applied Economics) and United Nations (from Mass Media) to here. Mass Media has a lot of stuff in it, and I'd to maybe break some of that up.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I love how you're dating everything here Vokarya. Makes me think we might want to display that milestone and its date somewhere in the new tech popups. Something to say straightforward what event we've based the achievement of the tech on. Cool stuff man!

 

[Hydromancerx]

That shouldn't be a problem, but I won't be able to do it until I get to the Transhuman Era. I need to finish laying out the new Modern Era, then rearrange the Transhuman. I'll leave space for all of this and the Lunar techs.

Thanks!

EDIT:

Solar Power - 1954 -Silicon solar cell invented

I have both Photovoltaic and Mirror Power Plants. Which are ...

- Solar Mirror Array Power Plant = Solar Power
- Solar Photovoltaic Power Plant = Solar Power AND Semiconductors

The first is basically using mirrors to heat up water, while the 2nd one is using Photovoltaic cells. Do you think the tech should come earlier or do you think I should move the Solar Mirror Array earlier. In which case what about the Semiconductors tech requirement on the 2nd one?

 

[Vokarya]

I have both Photovoltaic and Mirror Power Plants. Which are ...

- Solar Mirror Array Power Plant = Solar Power
- Solar Photovoltaic Power Plant = Solar Power AND Semiconductors

The first is basically using mirrors to heat up water, while the 2nd one is using Photovoltaic cells. Do you think the tech should come earlier or do you think I should move the Solar Mirror Array earlier. In which case what about the Semiconductors tech requirement on the 2nd one?

From what I'm looking at now, Semiconductors and Solar Power are about the same point tech-wise, Modern Era Level 3 (Solar Power is Electronics - Manufacturing - Solar Power, Semiconductors is Electronics - Manufacturing - Semiconductors. I feel like there's one electronics tech too few and one space tech too many.) Solar Power is still going to be in X70, and Semiconductors is looking like X71. You can keep all the requirements as there is no redundancy. It also looks like concentrated solar plants (your Solar Mirror Array) start around 1968, so pretty much at the same time.