Tech Tree Discussion

[Little Abigail]

Hey Vokarya, would you mind listing off the last part of the Modern Era techs? I enjoy reading them and looking at what you did.

 

[ls612]

Geez, you really moved a "few" techs back, it seem like it is "finally" coming together like (in lack of a better term) RL. I personally would like to Thank You and everyone for helping out on this "much needed" era, now the struggle begins.

The next step (not yet, I have a lot of other things to do first) would be for me to go back and find all of MrAzure's Galactic Era ideas and turn them into a reasonable number of techs. He has a lot of gems in his stuff which I think can be salvaged.

 

[strategyonly]

The next step (not yet, I have a lot of other things to do first) would be for me to go back and find all of MrAzure's Galactic Era ideas and turn them into a reasonable number of techs. He has a lot of gems in his stuff which I think can be salvaged.

I COMPLETELY agree with you on this, BUT Please ask Civ Fuerher for advice also, he is the only reason, why i agreed to do the Galactic Era with Hydro in the beginning.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya

Well in game terms Asteroids are Terrain Features just like Forests or Jungles. So I would say that one could "Chop" an Asteroid and get a similar bonus to the nearest "city". Note that we could have Space Outposts (Think Deep Space 9) to act like cities in space in the solar system map. And then on the Galactic map it would go to the nearest star system like in Final Frontier.

In fact it might be cool to do the same for Nebula gas and collect the gas.

The reason I suggested the Asteroid Mining mission is that I think it can be done without multi-maps. Once multi-maps are working, then it wouldn't be necessary and could be removed, but I was thinking of something that is not out of reach with the current tools.

 

[Vokarya]

As requested, here is the last part of the Modern Era.

Tech Date Event
Guided Weapons 1972 First use of laser-guided weapons
Volcanology 1973 Walker publishes Explosive Volcanic Eruptions
Planetary Exploration 1975 Landers on Mars and Venus
Genetics 1977 DNA Sequencing developed
Extreme Sports 1979 First bungee jump
Communication Networks 1979 First analog cellular phones
Derivatives 1982 Development of the FIRE Economy
Unmanned Air Vehicles 1982 UAVs used in Lebanon War
Forensics 1983 DNA fingerprinting technique invented
Gene Manipulation 1983 First genetically engineered plant
Biomaterials 1983 Biodiesel fuel in production
War Simulations 1983 RAND Strategy Assessment Center in action
Magnetic Levitation 1984 First commercial maglev system (Birmingham airport)
Superstring Theory 1984 Green-Schwarz mechanism
Nanotechnology 1985 Discovery of fullerenes
Virtual Reality 1985 VPL Research founded
3D Printing 1986 First industrial 3D printers
Superconductors 1986 High-temperature superconductors discovered
Neural Networks 1986 Rumelhart and others publish Learning representations by back-propagating errors
Bioinformatics 1990 BLAST algorithm for comparing biological sequence info
Knowledge Management 1991 Nonaka publishes The knowledge-creating company
Cloning 1996 First cloned mammal (Dolly)
Media Psychology 1997 Kirschners publish Perspectives on Psychology and the Media
Machine Learning 1997 Mitchell publishes Machine Learning , formally defines term
Astrobiology 1998 NASA Astrobiology Institute founded
Quantum Teleportation 1998 First demonstration of quantum teleportation
Space Tourism 2001 First paying space tourist (Dennis Tito)
Cyberwarfare 2003 Titan Rain acknowledged
Cloud Computing 2006 Amazon Web Service
Wearable Computers 2010 iPad is first successful tablet computer

There are a lot more techs here that are hard to pin down. The biggest problem by far is Superconductors, because there are three possible situations that the Superconductors tech could be referring to:

• Low-temperature superconductors (requiring liquid helium), which were discovered in 1911 and explained in 1957 (BCS theory)
• High-temperature superconductors (requiring liquid nitrogen), which were discovered in 1986
• Room-temperature superconductors (no coolant required), which are Transhuman Era at the earliest

I wound up with the second definition and using Superconductors to refer to high-temperature superconductors; I really didn't think Semiconductors and Superconductors should sit that close together. Magnetic Levitation will be after Superconductors. I have a spreadsheet of all the new prerequisites and placements ready to go, and I only lol have to edit the XML.

 

[rightfuture]

Here is a near future tech-tree composed by the bbc. with odds.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130102-tomorrows-world

 

[Alex Costa]

I know we are doing this tech work now but I wanna ask is there any plans for adding something at Pictographs?

 

[strategyonly]

I know we are doing this tech work now but I wanna ask is there any plans for adding something at Pictographs?

More info pls, what do you exactly mean? Buildings/units/cost/food, what??

 

[Alex Costa]

More info pls, what do you exactly mean? Buildings/units/cost/food, what??

Like the Tech Pictographs in the Preshistoric Area is currently empty. It just leads to other techs and that is it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There will be buildings there but not yet. I was trying to figure out a "trail sign" promotion or something since these Pictographs have been used to point to water and provide other important guides. If we get the limit on movement from your border working this would be a tech that increases your range.

BTW I think that the tech Scriptures could be named Moral Code allowing Scriptures to become a building associated with the Holy Shrine and maybe an effect on crime ie it really starts to make sense at this point.

 

[Alex Costa]

There will be buildings there but not yet. I was trying to figure out a "trail sign" promotion or something since these Pictographs have been used to point to water and provide other important guides. If we get the limit on movement from your border working this would be a tech that increases your range.

BTW I think that the tech Scriptures could be named Moral Code allowing Scriptures to become a building associated with the Holy Shrine and maybe an effect on crime ie it really starts to make sense at this point.

That would be a good idea. Perhaps a culture boost to Monuments too or is it OP that way?

As for the rename of Scriptures it sounds good for me.

 

[ls612]

That would be a good idea. Perhaps a culture boost to Monuments too or is it OP that way?

As for the rename of Scriptures it sounds good for me.

IIRC Scriptures was designed to capture the idea that many religions have a holy book, and not to signify the actual physical holy texts of a religion.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

I talked with Praetyre in the other thread. And he suggested we move Raft building earlier and Canine Domestication later. To make a long story short please change the following ...

Raft Building
Req Techs: Simple Wood Working AND Binding
Location: x10 Y5

Canoe Building
Req Techs: Trap Fishing AND Raft Building AND Tanning AND Carpentry

Canine Domestication
Req Tech: Hunting Tactics
Location: X14 Y11

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

Here is an icon/button for Environmental Economics tech. Please add it. Thanks!

 

[Vokarya]

IIRC Scriptures was designed to capture the idea that many religions have a holy book, and not to signify the actual physical holy texts of a religion.

Correct, it's to signify any religion's holy book. That is why it is a prerequisite for Hinduism (the Vedas and other texts) and Judaism (the Torah). It either doesn't work or is redundant for any other religion.

 

[Yudishtira]

While we're on religion prereqs, why Resurrection for Judaism? Of course I could be missing something, but I would appreciate if you'd enlighten me if that's the case.

If it needs another prereq, you could have one called Messianism - which Christianity, Islam (the Mahdi), Buddhism (the Maitreya) and Asatru (Vali) also kind of have.

 

[ls612]

While we're on religion prereqs, why Resurrection for Judaism? Of course I could be missing something, but I would appreciate if you'd enlighten me if that's the case.

If it needs another prereq, you could have one called Messianism - which Christianity, Islam (the Mahdi), Buddhism (the Maitreya) and Asatru (Vali) also kind of have.

I've wondered that a bit too, I've been reading the Theology OT thread recently and the orthodox Jews of the times before Christ were rather leery of the concept of resurrection. That was one of the reasons that the Pharisees did not like Jesus. So I don't think necessarily that Judaism should need Resurrection.

 

[Yudishtira]

Another thing that just came up for me re techs. In the fine print under Monarchy, (I'm assuming I haven't looked) there's some fine print saying "Can Build Treasury". It's hardly going to stand out, and you might put off teching it in favour of more "sexed-up" techs with bells and whistles (especially as when you do the maths on the two civics it enables, you don't always come out ahead). Well, what I didn't know is that the Treasury (National Wonder) is worth about 65 per turn!

I dare say that's one big difference between the first time you play C2C, and every other time...

 

[rightfuture]

Another thing that just came up for me re techs. In the fine print under Monarchy, (I'm assuming I haven't looked) there's some fine print saying "Can Build Treasury". It's hardly going to stand out, and you might put off teching it in favour of more "sexed-up" techs with bells and whistles (especially as when you do the maths on the two civics it enables, you don't always come out ahead). Well, what I didn't know is that the Treasury (National Wonder) is worth about 65 per turn!

I dare say that's one big difference between the first time you play C2C, and every other time...

If we can master an Epic and Inspiring Prehistoric Start to C2C, new players can have a good and interesting tutorial that's not boring or repetitive(not to say it is/just to deliver a positive experience and varied replay), and C2C will have a showcase of the best of what C2C offers over all of it's innovations without inspiring any of C2C's potential and superficial criticisms, so new players will give C2C the fair chance it deserves to discover it's deep greatness and so that older players will want it to continue/ won't get burnt out. I think one new version of C2C should be a united effort to create an epic and varied start so that any beginning of a C2C game feels fresh, epic, and varied for any new replay of the game. A taste of the amazing limits the end game of C2C can offer, the ultimate exploration of history and the positive manifest destiny of mankind and what the unity of the ModTeam and the Civ/Civfanatics/C2C community can accomplish. It should be a focused project, and once all the potential historical and alternate/expanded future eras are re-explored/rounded out to be satisfactory to most everyone, given love and attention of everyone, just like the end game should be. An amazing, satisfying, focused, and representative highlighted momentary experience to cap the game. Both beginning of history and the end of the game and future should convey limitless possibility and wonder of mankind's potential and choices. Not to mention convey how prehistory and the future eras are open to paint brush of open speculation and exploration. Only existing history is as fixed as we know. We are just beginning to explore pre-history and the future, as well as the limits of what is possible and what we can create. C2C and the potential for humanity in the future (and the past) is as limited/and unlimited as the C2C ModTeam/Community is willing to consider and explore.
Why not see what is over than next 'one more turn', hill, valley, idea, technology, possibility for creation? Why limit yourself?

 

[rightfuture]

Here are some ideas to be considered in the mix.

Glossary of Science Fiction Ideas, Technology and Inventions
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/ctnlistalpha.asp

Spoiler :

Device Name Book/Story Author Date
Ablative Heat (Reentry) Shield - very early reference Triplanetary Smith 1934
Absolute Black - so dark, you can't see it Restaurant at the End of the Universe Adams 1980
Accelerated Schooling Cities in Flight Blish 1957
Accelerated Schooling Helmet Cities in Flight Blish 1957
Acceleration Chair The Mote in God's Eye Niven (w/J. Pournelle) 1974
Acceleration Couch The Mote in God's Eye Niven (w/J. Pournelle) 1974
Acceleration Shell The Forever War Haldeman 1974
Acceleration-tank - very early reference Triplanetary Smith 1934
Accu-Terrain Floor Natulife Brin 1994
Acoustic Apparatus (Osophone) - original patent filing Acoustic Apparatus Gernsback 1923
Actinoscope Ralph 124c 41 + Gernsback 1911
Adam Selene The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Heinlein 1966
Adiabatic Pods The Lady Who Sailed The Soul Smith 1960
Adjustable Television The Simulacra Dick Ace
Adnix Contact Sagan 1985
Advertising Airship Blade Runner Scott 1982
Aerial Telegraph Edison's Conquest of Mars Serviss 1898
Aeriduct (Rain Maker) - watch for showers A Journey In Other Worlds Astor IV 1894
Aerocar - first use of idea? The Abduction of Alexandra Seine Smale 1900
Aeromuse Pillow The Human Blend Foster 2010
Aerostat Monitor - a small flying platform The Diamond Age Stephenson 1995
Agfom Potent-Shot - picture the future Clans of the Alphane Moon Dick 1964
Aggressive-Response Service The Golden Globe Varley 1998
Agile Recording Robot Solar Lottery Dick 1955
Agony Box - testing for humans Heretics of Dune Herbert 1984
Agricultural Robot Pest Controller - picking off the pests Runaway Crichton 1985
Agricultural World Foundation Asimov 1951
Air Blast - the first air dryer Coventry Heinlein 1940
Airbag Jacket - instant Michelin Man Snow Crash Stephenson 1992
Airboarding Halting State Stross 2007
Aircab Time Crime Piper 1955
Aircab - a flying taxi Farewell to the Master Bates 1940
AIRE - reverse engineering software Mother of Storms Barnes 1994
Airlock Skylark of Space Smith 1928
Airmaker - breathe it Ringworld Niven 1970
Airmakers The Big Rain Anderson 1954
Air-o-Stat Satellite Five Barnes 1938
Airplane Window Ads - ads on clouds The Space Merchants Pohl (w/CM Kornbluth) 1952
Air-Propelled Train - silent mass transit Fahrenheit 451 Bradbury 1953
Air-Ship (VTOL Airship) The Angel of the Revolution Griffith 1893
Air-Tight Suit - air-tight dress Edison's Conquest of Mars Serviss 1898
Airtight Tent Asteroid of Fear Gallun 1951
Air-to-Surface Missile - first use of concept The Angel of the Revolution Griffith 1893
Alcodote Space Viking Piper 1962
Alcoholic Reliever Bad Medicine Sheckley 1956
Alcoholic Reliever Bad Medicine Sheckley 1956
Alcohol-Sensing System The Game Players of Titan Dick 1963
Alderson Point - a wormhole to the stars The Mote in God's Eye Niven (w/J. Pournelle) 1974
Alibi Archive - personal recording Hominids (Neanderthal Parallax) Sawyer 2003
Alien Tarantula Engine City MacLeod 2003
Alien Trojan Out of the Dark Webber 2010
Allswell Anathem Stephenson 2008
Alpha Plus Brave New World Huxley 1932
Alterable License Number Methuselah's Children Heinlein 1941
AM-280 Needle Rifle A Matter For Men Gerrold 1983
Ampek F-a2 Recording System The Simulacra Dick Ace
Analogue - devolution through chemistry The Stars My Destination Bester 1956
Android The Cometeers Williamson 1936
Androide - the original Cyclopaedia Chambers 1727
Andy - an artificial human Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Dick 1968
Angel Music Player Flood Baxter 2008
Annihilator Beam The Conquest of Gola Stone 1931
Ansible - the ultimate long distance phone Rocannon's World LeGuin 1966
Answerboard - good name for it Rainbows End Vinge 2006
Anti-agathic drugs Cities in Flight Blish 1957
Anti-Gerasone - drink and look younger Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow Vonnegut 1954
Antigravity - first use The Vanguard of Neptune Walsh 1932
Anti-Gravity Belt Armageddon: 2419 A.D. Nowlan 1928
Anti-Heptant To Live Forever Vance 1956
Antiholo Generator The Ophiuchi Hotline Varley 1977
Anti-Onc Cream - cancer remedy Earth Brin 1990
Anti-Spying Device Foundation Asimov 1951
Antithermal Shield The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Dick 1965
Anti-Virus Design Software Super-Cannes: A Novel Ballard 2000
Apergy (Apergion) - antigravity substance Across the Zodiac Greg 1880
Arachnofiber Uniforms - Spidey delivers pizza Snow Crash Stephenson 1992
Architectural Coral - build to any shape A Gift From Earth Niven 1968
Arcology (Soleri) - maximize your green space Oath of Fealty Pournelle (w/L. Niven) 1981
Armored Clothing - modern armor The Dosadi Experiment Herbert 1977
Art-Derm - spray-on skin Dr. Futurity Dick 1960
Arteria Portal The Algebraist Banks 2004
Artificial Brain The Metal Giants Hamilton 1926
Artificial Butterfly Changeling Zelazny 1980
Artificial eye - first use of this idea? Galactic Patrol Smith 1937
Artificial Gill Outfit We Can Remember It For You Wholesale Dick 1966
Artificial Gravity - first mention Brigands of the Moon Cummings 1930
Artificial Gravity System Last and First Men Stapledon 1930
Artificial Gravity-Assisted Childbirth Time Enough For Love Heinlein 1973
Artificial Life Across Space Hamilton 1926
Artificial Muscles - for cyborgs Cyborg Caidin 1972
Artificial Planet Star Maker Stapledon 1937
Artificial Planet - before the Death Star Triplanetary Smith 1934
Artificial Transparent Element - see through it Last and First Men Stapledon 1930
Artificial Womb - very early use of concept Brave New World Huxley 1932
Artificially Grown Organs A Gift From Earth Niven 1968
Artiforg Ubik Dick 1969
Artif-Org Cantata 140 Dick 1964
Artigraft Solar Lottery Dick 1955
A-Som (Antisomnolence Drugs) Shuteye for the Timebroker Di Filippo 2006
Assassin Bird - genetically engineered Sparrowhawk Easton 1990
Assault Ship The Forever War Haldeman 1974
Asteroid Claim Law Jurisdiction Schachner 1941
Asteroid Garden Asteroid of Fear Gallun 1951
Asteroid Homesteaders' School Asteroid of Fear Gallun 1951
Asteroid Mine - ore from space Love Among The Robots McDowell 1946
Asteroid Mining Edison's Conquest of Mars Serviss 1898
Asteroid Mining Robot Catch That Rabbit Asimov 1944
Asteroid-Metal - raw materials from space The Mechanical Monarch Tubb 1958
Astrogation (to Astrogate) - steer to the stars Methuselah's Children Heinlein 1941
Astronaut Across the Zodiac Greg 1880
Asymptotic Drive Imperial Earth Clarke 1976
Atlotl/Gibiril Regimen - regrow and rejuvenate The Godmakers Herbert 1972
Atmosphere Control The Mote in God's Eye Niven (w/J. Pournelle) 1974
Atmosphere Tester The Emperor of the Stars Schachner (w. AL Zagat) 1931
Atmospheric Advertising - write it on the clouds In the Year 2889 Verne 1889
Atmospheric Braking Space Cadet Heinlein 1948
Atom-Driven Drill Asteroid of Fear Gallun 1951
Atomic Bomb - very early reference The World Set Free Wells 1914
Atomic Energy - very early reference. The Crack of Doom Cromie 1895
Atomic Microscopy The Crack of Doom Cromie 1895
Atomic-Powered Lifting Suits The Brain Pirates Campbell 1938
Atom-Shifter The Worlds of Tomorrow Wellman 1940
Attractive Ray - first use of idea? Crashing Suns Hamilton 1928
Attractor - come hither and stay still The Conquest of Gola Stone 1931
Audio Relay - personal RFID transceiver The Puppet Masters Heinlein 1951
Audiphone Blood of the Moon Cummings 1936
Auto Course-Finding Pilot Clans of the Alphane Moon Dick 1964
Auto Shovel The Simulacra Dick Ace
Autocab Between Planets Heinlein 1951
Autodoc - automated medical device Ringworld Niven 1970
Auto-Driven Auto (Spinner) - it drives itself The Dream Master Zelazny 1966
Autofac (Nanorobots) - a factory that can replicate itself Autofac Dick 1955
AutoM8 Daemon Suarez 2009
Automated Apartment Maintenance Ubik Dick 1969
Automated DNA Typing - from one drop Gattaca Niccol 1997
Automated Hotel Reservation Methuselah's Children Heinlein 1941
Automated Restaurant - food from robots A Princess of Mars Burroughs 1912
Automated Sentry - automatic face recognition Darwin's Children Bear 2003
Automated Surface Measurement - 100 years before cgi needed it When the Sleeper Wakes Wells 1899
Automated Taxi Sagramanda Foster 2006
Automated Travel Bureau Friday Heinlein 1982
Automated Wake-Up Call - the hotel wakes you up The Kokod Warriors Vance 1952
Automatic Air Mail Plane The Living Machine Keller 1935
Automatic Automobile The Living Machine Keller 1935
Automatic Commercial Deletion - no more commercials Satellite Five Barnes 1938
Automatic Companion Robot - better than a puppy The Midas Plague Pohl 1954
Automatic Door - like a roll top desk When the Sleeper Wakes Wells 1899
Automatic Gun - targets without human intervention The Andromeda Strain Crichton 1969
Automatic Hotel (Hotel Hendrix) - the hotel is your host Altered Carbon Morgan 2003
Automatic Light Switch The Man Who Sold The Moon Heinlein 1950
Automatic Massager - robot masseuse Far Centaurus van Vogt 1944
Automatic Pilot - a brief history The Space Merchants Pohl (w/CM Kornbluth) 1952
Automatic Reversed Memory - EEG in reverse Brain Control Cummins 1937
Automatic Speeding Fine Old Fireball Schachner 1941
Automatic Ticket Machine - your ticket to the stars Second Foundation Asimov 1953
Automatic Toll Payment The Living Machine Keller 1935
Automatic Vein Finder The Andromeda Strain Crichton 1969
Automaton Chessplayer - the first chess-playing computer Moxon's Master Bierce 1910
Auto-Navigation The Dream Master Zelazny 1966
Autonomic Cab - all on its own The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Dick 1965
Autonomic Food-Processing System - untouched by humans Cantata 140 Dick 1964
Autonomic Interviewer - pape's proxy The Zap Gun Dick 1965
Autonomic Plow Clans of the Alphane Moon Dick 1964
Autonomously Recharging UAV Changeling Zelazny 1980
Autoporter - personal baggage handler The Shockwave Rider Brunner 1975
Auto-Scan This Moment of the Storm Zelazny 1966
Autosecretary (Autosec) - clipping service for the net Earth Brin 1990
Autosurgeon - doctor's robot helper Altered Carbon Morgan 2003
Auto-Treadmills (Needle-Gym) Natulife Brin 1994
Ava - she wants to be taught The Calcutta Chromosome Ghosh 1995
Avatar - godlike poseurs Snow Crash Stephenson 1992
Avatar Construction Set - build your virtual self Snow Crash Stephenson 1992
Axolotl Tank - device for regeneration Dune Messiah Herbert 1969

for starters. Many more pages and direct reference links to explanations for the ideas included in the main webpage. Some of it should make it to alternative eras at least.
(ah the power of google)
Please remember that today's science fiction is tomorrow's potential reality - Satellites and Star Trek anyone?
(p.s. you should also at least attempt to get MrAzure's attention again. at least for insight. He did say he was interested at continuing. Both of us pitched these links before, prob independently)