If someone REALLY wants to do this, make it a modmod, I don't want any of this in C2C by default. I'd prefer for this not to be in at all, it is really distracting me and serves only to aggravate me. Please let us all move on.
I agree with you to a point. These ideas could provide a solution.
My idea is to end that distraction and aggravation while preserving it's value.
A collective mod-mod for major controversial or rejected ideas should be in the mod-mod thread, and not a part of C2C by default. It is more of an outlet, and a place for collecting and focusing development and discussion of rejected or controversial ideas that are less popular, or want to be explored outside of the community and ModTeam efforts. AND was built as a mod-mod by Afforess in part to include ROM mod-mod content that Zappara did not want to include. AND 1st and then C2C, was created and partially inspired by Hydromancerx's mod-mods which did not always agree. Afforess then took AND in his own direction, to finish it, and C2C was created not long after. I suggested making it a collective mod-mod with the included ideas made individually optional, so that it could be explored like AND did before the optional mod-mods were removed. This is simply to give a life and a place to shift those ideas so they aren't completely rejected, and are open to refinement and discussion from the community. I'm not saying these ideas would have direct value to improving C2C, but having a place for them might lend opportunity for a few controversial and rejected ideas to be proven or worked out, and give those people who want to explore them a separate place to feel free to explore them. This could shift major aggravation, frustration, and disagreement out of C2C's way and progress, and give a place for serious debate to work itself out in a way that would not distract anyone like yourself. I am not looking to create such a mod-mod myself; I am suggesting it as a way to relieve C2C's disagreement and distraction stress, and to give a separate place to those who sharply disagree instead of being driven away. It is possible that a rare idea from here could lead to a breakthrough. A Controversial and collective mod-mod like this could keep continued splits from happening and maintain a consistent vision for C2C, while being inclusive and supporting the most comprehensive and diverse community to date.
I think C2C needs a ongoing Controversial Discussion thread.
It serves 2 major purposes.
1. To be a focused place to let everybody freely and openly discuss and work out Controversial and potentially unpopular, disagreed with, or sensitive ideas and concepts.
2. To shift these conversations away from being a distraction, a frustration, an aggravation, or potentially to drive people away like yourself, by removing it from working and productive conversations. Literally the ModTeam can elect to move these conversations to this thread.
-This frees up the ModTeam to be able to accomplish more and be able to reach farther.
-This allows C2C to keep moving and making ambitious progress.
-It separates the things that slow C2C down, while giving freedom to collectively work them out. Sometimes an idea just needs to be refined and carefully figured out to be acceptable to most everybody.
(If these ideas proof more incendiary or cause problems they could potentially be moved to the controversial mod-mod thread to be worked out to hearts content, without distracting the whole community, and be given a directed lightning rod to ground these thoughts.)
Disagreement and Civil Debate has a great deal of value to C2C in working out better solutions to problems. The group can discover things together than indivduals cannot figure out by themselves. We must be careful in how we handle it, so that everyone feels included, and ideas are properly sorted and included without interfering with making progress, or alienating people.
The challenge for C2C and most groups is that most people who care, feel strongly about their beliefs to the degree that the hold them. If we allow disagreement to divide and alienate people, then we close our minds to the diversity of opinions and ideas. I agree that some ideas are toxic and should be rejected. But far more often - challenges, civil debate, and disagreements are opportunities to find better solutions and pave a road for potentially making things better. We must all learn, hopefully together, the philosophy of finding a way to value our disagreements appropriately. We must continue to make progress, but also take time to listen, evaluate, and reach further. By taking an appropriate amount of time, we can shine a light to illuminate these. We must be free and willing to disagree, and be disagreed with.
If we don't value these opportunities and debates then we become a community of yes people, who submit to a lifeless generic community of individual tyranny, or majority group-think, who stay in their own backyards instead of exploring a vibrant, exciting, living world. What do we want for ourselves and C2C?
We must balance a community of open discussion and ideas, with a commitment to make progress on pursuing the best choices with the best people.
We can all be wrong. For C2C to be the best of what we offer it, and for our vision to survive to be included, we must be willing to consider a healthy amount of disagreement. We also must not be afraid to explore, and step out of our comfort zones to challenge ourselves and each other.
Every one of us will be dead wrong on a certain percentage of their ideas, and even some that they feel strongly about. We can't let that stop us.
-We need each other to guarantee that we see clearly by allowing others to correctly challenge that view.
-We also need freedom to express our ideas and to continue our work.
We all have blind spots, especially about things we care about, and our vision and strong opinions.We must be here to challenge each other, as well as a way to work together smoothly together. We have to be here for each other because we want to be a part of a C2C that can continue to become as great as it could be.
Remember to learn tolerance, no matter what your age and point of view, it has a place here at C2C. We can find it together.
@Ls612 - I value your contributions and opinions. I agree with almost all of them.
Here is a thread to continue similiar discussions on this.
C2C - Productive Controversial Discussions
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=467983);
(For the purpose of giving these conversations an on-topic place, I took Strategy-Only's advice and created a thread.
I think it is time to get this Tech-Tree conversation back on topic.)
Let's please make a little room for productive disagreement.
They always say "The Truth will Set You Free." or is it "The truth is not worth waiting for," or "The truth is what it is," or "The truth is a misguided human emotion guided by your elders," or "The Truth is Out There, You Just Need to Look for It." Words to that effect
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