Tech Tree Discussion

Sarah Starlight · Jul 11, 2012

seebelow

Spoiler :

Sarah Starlight · Jul 11, 2012

As Techs I would add this to Industrial
rename Electricity to Electromagnetism and send it to renaissance
Add:

Electrical Dynamo
Typewriter
Appliances
Individualism
Frontiersman
Light Bulb
Fossil Fuels (1860s)
Manifest Destiny
Gin Argiculture
Fire Extinguisher
Cement
Telephone
Skyscrapers
synthetic fibers
denim
zipper,
ironclad ships
performing Arts
Stage Magic

Baroque music (1600-1750) aka George Frideric Handel,Johann Sebastian Bach, Antonio Vivaldi
Classical music (1750-1820) aka Wolfgang Mozart, Franz Haydn, Franz Schubert
Romantic music (1820-1910) aka Pyotr Tchaikovsky,Frédéric Chopin, Ludwig van Beethoven
Modernism music (1920-2000) aka Igor Stravinsky, Claude Debussy, Arnold Schoenberg

gas turbine
volt battery
smokeless gunpowder
photographic film (after photography)
seismograph (leads to volcanology)
microphone
Phonograph
telephone
Stock Market - 1870
Elevator (or Skyscrapers)
pasteurization
Matches (modern)
Calculator (or mechanical computer)

Sarah Starlight · Jul 11, 2012

Vokarya said:
Okay, I took a look at Consumerism and I also looked at how it is used in a couple of other mods (since Realism Invictus and World of Legends both have Consumerism) and I think we actually have two new technologies here:

Propaganda (Industrial Era)
Location: X62 Y11
Cost: 6000
Req Techs: Motion Pictures AND Psychology AND (Communism OR Fascism)
Leads to: Consumerism, Television
Buildings: Propaganda Office (moved), Security Bureau (moved)
Civic: Propaganda (moved)

Consumerism (Industrial Era)
Location: X64 Y13
Cost: 6500
Req Techs: Industrialism AND Propaganda
Leads to: Applied Economics, Mass Media
Buildings: Mall (requires just Consumerism), Supermarket (requires Consumerism AND Refrigeration), Bullseye, East-West Traders, Emperor's Clothing, MallWart

Altered Techs
Applied Economics
Req Techs: Computers AND Consumerism AND Representative Democracy

Mass Media
Req Techs: Consumerism AND Pop Art AND Television

Television
Req Techs: Electronics AND Propaganda

Would this work?

That works perfectly! did u take a chance to look at the post above?
The main issues are the generalization of Electricity, Combustion, and Railroads, they evolved over 200 years, and you are missing some very big industrial inventions like the Battery, Telephone,(came 30 years after Telepgraph), Cotton Gin, and Electric Motor (came 80 years before the first car), and Photographic Film (can 90 years after photography), Journalism, Ironclad Ships, Elevators/Skyscrapers/ , microphone, building codes, appliances (they came 100 years before refrigeration), and Cement.

Renissance needs:

Electromagnetism
barometer
graphite pencil / quill your choice
Mercator cartography
the study of light and prsims

Hydromancerx · Jul 11, 2012

Vokarya said:
Okay, I took a look at Consumerism and I also looked at how it is used in a couple of other mods (since Realism Invictus and World of Legends both have Consumerism) and I think we actually have two new technologies here:

Propaganda (Industrial Era)
Location: X62 Y11
Cost: 6000
Req Techs: Motion Pictures AND Psychology AND (Communism OR Fascism)
Leads to: Consumerism, Television
Buildings: Propaganda Office (moved), Security Bureau (moved)
Civic: Propaganda (moved)

Consumerism (Industrial Era)
Location: X64 Y13
Cost: 6500
Req Techs: Industrialism AND Propaganda
Leads to: Applied Economics, Mass Media
Buildings: Mall (requires just Consumerism), Supermarket (requires Consumerism AND Refrigeration), Bullseye, East-West Traders, Emperor's Clothing, MallWart

Altered Techs
Applied Economics
Req Techs: Computers AND Consumerism AND Representative Democracy

Mass Media
Req Techs: Consumerism AND Pop Art AND Television

Television
Req Techs: Electronics AND Propaganda

Would this work?

Looks good. We should see what ls612 thinks.

Also how do you think Franchises should fit in?

Sarah Starlight · Jul 11, 2012

I also forgot:
Standard Units
1662 – Robert Boyle: Boyle's law of ideal gas

1771 – Charles Messier: Publishes catalogue of astronomical objects (Messier Objects) now known to include galaxies, star clusters, and nebulae.

1778 – Antoine Lavoisier (and Joseph Priestley): discovery of oxygen leading to end of Phlogiston theory

1781 – William Herschel announces discovery of Uranus, expanding the known boundaries of the solar system for the first time in modern history

1796 – Georges Cuvier: Establishes extinction as a fact

1830 - Nikolai Lobachevsky created Non-Euclidean geometry

1833 – Anselme Payen isolates first enzyme, diastase

1838 – Matthias Schleiden: all plants are made of cells

1846 – William Morton: discovery of anesthesia

1848 – Lord Kelvin: absolute zero

1865 – Gregor Mendel: Mendel's laws of inheritance, basis for genetics

1869 – Dmitri Mendeleev: Periodic table

1895 – Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen discovers x-rays

1896 – Henri Becquerel discovers radioactivity

1898 - J.J. Thomson proposed the Plum pudding model of an atom

Almost all should have a TECH

Sarah Starlight · Jul 11, 2012

@ Vokarya
@ Hydro

The electrical Techs i would add in this order

Electromagnetism (William Gilbert -1600)
Electricity -Benjamin Franklin (1752)
Battery - Alessandro Volta (1791)
Electric motor - Michael Faraday (1821)
Electrical Engineering - ( combine Nikola Tesla, Galileo Ferraris, Oliver Heaviside, Thomas Edison, Ottó Bláthy, Ányos Jedlik, Sir Charles Parsons, Joseph Swan, George Westinghouse, Ernst Werner von Siemens, Alexander Graham Bell and Lord Kelvin)

Also remember that the Industrial Revolution came in two phases

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Industrial_Revolution

The Second Industrial Revolution, also known as the Technological Revolution, was a phase of the larger Industrial Revolution corresponding to the latter half of the 19th century until World War I. It is considered to have begun with Bessemer steel in the 1860s and culminated in mass production and the production line.

Hydromancerx · Jul 11, 2012

If we are getting out long random lists here are some that I am not sure if thy should be techs, promotions or buildings ...

Techs from AoE 1, 2 and 3.
- Chain mail
- Afterlife
- Jihad
- Fervor
- Redemption
- Atonement
- Faith
- Sanctity
- Illumination
- Hording
- Loom
- Bracer
- Bodkin Arrow
- Fletching
- Blast Furnace
- Scale Armor
- Bow Saw
- Double-Bit Saw
- 2 Man-Saw
- Horse Collar
- Squires
- Padded Armor
- Leather Armor
- Ring Armor
- heated Shot
- Careening
- Thumb Ring
- Heresy
- Parthian Tactics
- Bloodlines
- Caravan
- Garland Wars
- Yeoman
- Logistica
- Rocketry
- Perfusion
- Kataparuto
- Shinkichon
- Mahouts
- Zealotry
- Surpemacy
- Crenellations
- Bereskergang
- See Drill
- Gill Nets
- Long Lines
- Percussion Lock
- Grape Shot
- Gang Saw
- Placer Mines
- Amalgmation
- Homesteading
- Peerage

... Ok there a lot more but you get the idea. Most are probably not useful but some of the religious ones might come i handy for a priest/monk promotion.

Sarah Starlight · Jul 11, 2012

What puzzles me is that Renassiance and Industrial Eras had the most profound inventions in human history but they are the two techs with alot fo empty spaces; does C2C modteam frown upon inventions and prefer scientific discoveries?

BlueGenie · Jul 11, 2012

Shouldn't technologies be more science based as most if not all inventions are based on various scientific advances with only a few inventions leading the way for scientific advancement?
Buildings represent innovation and invention for me.

The exception is social advancement where technologies represent clarity in some areas pertaining to human nature, physiology, or psyche, which does not necessarily mean adopting any thing opened up by this clarity or that it is generally known, only that it makes available civics, religion, buildings, and so on to the leaders.

Cheers

Vokarya · Jul 11, 2012

BlueGenie said:
Shouldn't technologies be more science based as most if not all inventions are based on various scientific advances with only a few inventions leading the way for scientific advancement?
Buildings represent innovation and invention for me.

The exception is social advancement where technologies represent clarity in some areas pertaining to human nature, physiology, or psyche, which does not necessarily mean adopting any thing opened up by this clarity or that it is generally known, only that it makes available civics, religion, buildings, and so on to the leaders.

Cheers

Hyper-agree. I think only the most profoundly world-altering single inventions (gunpowder, printing press) deserve to be individual technologies. In some cases, we are using one invention as the "face" for several closely-related developments. A big example here for me is Screw Propeller - it's not JUST the propeller, it's several developments in shipbuilding, like steel-hull ships. But we don't separate out steel hull.

Please, everyone - back off on the long lists. I don't think half of what is being suggested here is worth breaking out.

Vokarya · Jul 11, 2012

Sarah Starlight said:
What puzzles me is that Renassiance and Industrial Eras had the most profound inventions in human history but they are the two techs with alot fo empty spaces; does C2C modteam frown upon inventions and prefer scientific discoveries?

This is NOT a bad thing. I think you are confusing the map (of the tech tree) with the territory (the actual technologies).

I don't even look at the tech tree map when I look for ideas. I only use that to find a possible slot once I have an idea. The important things to me are:

The number of techs in the era
The relative cost in turns to research each tech
The total number of techs in the era
The connections between the techs

X and Y coordinates on the tree are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. In fact, trying to fill in everything looks really, really tacky. It's the sign of a mod that needs some polishing. Empty space is really helpful for being able to keep a mental grasp on the current situation.

Vokarya · Jul 11, 2012

Sarah Starlight said:
@ Vokarya
@ Hydro

The electrical Techs i would add in this order

Electromagnetism (William Gilbert -1600)
Electricity -Benjamin Franklin (1752)
Battery - Alessandro Volta (1791)
Electric motor - Michael Faraday (1821)
Electrical Engineering - ( combine Nikola Tesla, Galileo Ferraris, Oliver Heaviside, Thomas Edison, Ottó Bláthy, Ányos Jedlik, Sir Charles Parsons, Joseph Swan, George Westinghouse, Ernst Werner von Siemens, Alexander Graham Bell and Lord Kelvin)

Also remember that the Industrial Revolution came in two phases

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Industrial_Revolution

The Second Industrial Revolution is the Industrialism tech -- the first is Steam Power. If you look carefully at the tech tree, you will see that Industrialism is a major bottleneck about 3/4 of the way through the Industrial Age. It takes a while to get from the beginning of the Industrial Era to the Industrialism tech.

Vokarya · Jul 11, 2012

Sarah Starlight said:
I also forgot:
Standard Units
1662 Robert Boyle: Boyle's law of ideal gas

1771 Charles Messier: Publishes catalogue of astronomical objects (Messier Objects) now known to include galaxies, star clusters, and nebulae.

1778 Antoine Lavoisier (and Joseph Priestley): discovery of oxygen leading to end of Phlogiston theory

1781 William Herschel announces discovery of Uranus, expanding the known boundaries of the solar system for the first time in modern history

1796 Georges Cuvier: Establishes extinction as a fact

1830 - Nikolai Lobachevsky created Non-Euclidean geometry

1833 Anselme Payen isolates first enzyme, diastase

1838 Matthias Schleiden: all plants are made of cells

1846 William Morton: discovery of anesthesia

1848 Lord Kelvin: absolute zero

1865 Gregor Mendel: Mendel's laws of inheritance, basis for genetics

1869 Dmitri Mendeleev: Periodic table

1895 Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen discovers x-rays

1896 Henri Becquerel discovers radioactivity

1898 - J.J. Thomson proposed the Plum pudding model of an atom

Almost all should have a TECH

Disagree. I don't agree any of these individual discoveries deserves a full-fledged C2C technology. Maybe radioactivity (including X-Rays), but there's no more than 1 or 2 techs here.

Dancing Hoskuld · Jul 11, 2012

The religion buttons, ie the ones used in the religion screen don't work in the tech tree for some reason.

I have tried different things and they just don't work. :sigh:. I even copied them to the tech tree folder. This means we need some new ones for the techs.

strategyonly · Jul 11, 2012

Dancing Hoskuld said:
The religion buttons, ie the ones used in the religion screen don't work in the tech tree for some reason. I have tried different things and they just don't work. :sigh:. I even copied them to the tech tree folder. This means we need some new ones for the techs.

Which ones are you talking about?

Vokarya · Jul 11, 2012

I do agree that Electricity needs a split. Electricity needs to be split into two techs:

Electricity: the scientific discovery.

Electrical Power: the engineering application.

Lumping them both together causes Electricity and some of its inventions (like Radio) to be easier to get than they should. I'll take a look into this - this has always bugged me.

Vokarya · Jul 11, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
Looks good. We should see what ls612 thinks.

Also how do you think Franchises should fit in?

I'll work on this later. The Franchises tech definitely flows into Globalization. Some of the Corporations we currently have should be moved to Franchises as well.

Acularius · Jul 11, 2012

As I talked in the Rennaisance and Industrial techs, electromagnetism as a whole does not belong in the Renaissance.

Just a heads up.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11653974&postcount=5

ls612 · Jul 11, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
Looks good. We should see what ls612 thinks.

Also how do you think Franchises should fit in?

Sounds good to me. I question the wisdom though of having three corporations founded on the same technology, that seems like a bad idea.

strategyonly · Jul 11, 2012

ls612 said:
Sounds good to me. I question the wisdom though of having three corporations founded on the same technology, that seems like a bad idea.

When you just submitted the change to the svn it reads:
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/TechTree/andeanism</Button

should be:

<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/TechTree/andeanism.dds</Button

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