Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I am testing a fix now. At least a fix for the extra religions that is.
Tech Tree Discussion
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
I am testing a fix now. At least a fix for the extra religions that is.
(The title was just too good to resist.)
I have two more tech ideas that I've been kicking around for a while and I would like to share to see if they can be implemented.
First, a tech for the Medieval Era.
New Tech
Parliaments (Medieval Era)
Location: X41 Y5
Cost: 800
Requires: Charters
Leads to: Political Philosophy
Buildings: King's Council
Bonuses: +1 happy from Agora, Forum, Polis Council
Altered Techs
Political Philosophy
Req Techs: Banking AND Education AND Parliaments
New Buildings
King's Council
Cost: Not sure.
Civic Requirements: Monarchy OR Nobility
Building Requirements: Palace
Benefits: +10% gold all cities. +5 local stability bonus all cities. +25% maintenance in building city. +20% War Weariness in all cities.
Parliaments was inspired by me noticing there aren't a lot of government technologies in the Medieval Era. There are actually a few medieval-era parliaments in Europe: the English Model Parliament, the French Estates-General, the Icelandic Thing, and the Polish Sejm. So, Parliaments can help you in one of two ways. If you are running a participatory government (Republic, Senate), then it makes your government work better, and I quantify that by making the associated civic buildings better. If you are running a government that doesn't require participation but doesn't outright deny it (Monarchy, Nobility), you can build the Council (it's not a Wonder, because I don't want it taking up a Wonder slot, but you can only build one because of the Palace requirement) to raise more taxes, but at the price of the Council airing grievances (increased War Weariness). I do NOT want to move the Parliament civic here yet. The Parliament civic should stay at Political Philosophy.
Second, a tech for the Modern Era.
New Tech
Counterculture (Modern Era)
Location: X74 Y7
Cost: 7500
Requires: Ecology AND Guerrilla Warfare AND Minority Rights
Leads to: Extreme Sports
Buildings: Woodstock
Civics: Multilingual (Language)
Altered Techs
Extreme Sports
Req Techs: Motorsports AND Tourism AND Water Sports AND Counterculture
New Civics
Multilingual (Language Civic)
Medium Upkeep
+40% Culture
+20% Science
+4 relations with all leaders
-5% national stability
New Wonders
Woodstock
Req Techs: Counterculture
Cost: Again, not sure.
+15 culture
+2 GPP (Artist)
+1 happy in all cities
+1 happy with Hit Singles
+2 happy with Liberal
Triggers "Summer of Love" Event: +500 culture all cities (one-time bonus, not repeating), +3 temporary UNHAPPY all cities
The Counterculture tech is to represent the hippies of the 1960's. Ecology and Minority Rights are rebellious technologies against the status quo, and Guerrilla Warfare represents the tactics of radical groups (also the adoption of certain figures like Che Guevara and the bogging-down of the Vietnam War). The Multilingual civic is a civilization that has numerous languages and uses all of them, but doesn't enforce multilingualism the way the Language Education civic does. Therefore, compared to Language Education, it's cheaper (less money spent on language teachers) and less science (mistranslations result in lost opportunities) but culture is the same (different cultures are free to build their own traditions) and so are relations with other leaders (you can find SOMEONE in your government who understands the foreigners' languages). National stability takes a penalty with Multilingual because of the lack of a common language to rally around.
Woodstock is a Great Wonder. The one-time "Summer of Love" event triggers on building the wonder, granting the fairly large culture bonus to all cities (it could even be higher), but causing a temporary happiness penalty as the counterculture figures march and the reactionaries write sternly worded letters to the editors of their local newspapers.
Also, I think Counterculture would be a good technology to possibly lead to either a New Age or Wicca religion-founding technology if you want another modern era religion.
What do you think of these two?
I have two more tech ideas that I've been kicking around for a while and I would like to share to see if they can be implemented.
First, a tech for the Medieval Era.
New Tech
Parliaments (Medieval Era)
Location: X41 Y5
Cost: 800
Requires: Charters
Leads to: Political Philosophy
Buildings: King's Council
Bonuses: +1 happy from Agora, Forum, Polis Council
Altered Techs
Political Philosophy
Req Techs: Banking AND Education AND Parliaments
New Buildings
King's Council
Cost: Not sure.
Civic Requirements: Monarchy OR Nobility
Building Requirements: Palace
Benefits: +10% gold all cities. +5 local stability bonus all cities. +25% maintenance in building city. +20% War Weariness in all cities.
Parliaments was inspired by me noticing there aren't a lot of government technologies in the Medieval Era. There are actually a few medieval-era parliaments in Europe: the English Model Parliament, the French Estates-General, the Icelandic Thing, and the Polish Sejm. So, Parliaments can help you in one of two ways. If you are running a participatory government (Republic, Senate), then it makes your government work better, and I quantify that by making the associated civic buildings better. If you are running a government that doesn't require participation but doesn't outright deny it (Monarchy, Nobility), you can build the Council (it's not a Wonder, because I don't want it taking up a Wonder slot, but you can only build one because of the Palace requirement) to raise more taxes, but at the price of the Council airing grievances (increased War Weariness). I do NOT want to move the Parliament civic here yet. The Parliament civic should stay at Political Philosophy.
Second, a tech for the Modern Era.
New Tech
Counterculture (Modern Era)
Location: X74 Y7
Cost: 7500
Requires: Ecology AND Guerrilla Warfare AND Minority Rights
Leads to: Extreme Sports
Buildings: Woodstock
Civics: Multilingual (Language)
Altered Techs
Extreme Sports
Req Techs: Motorsports AND Tourism AND Water Sports AND Counterculture
New Civics
Multilingual (Language Civic)
Medium Upkeep
+40% Culture
+20% Science
+4 relations with all leaders
-5% national stability
New Wonders
Woodstock
Req Techs: Counterculture
Cost: Again, not sure.
+15 culture
+2 GPP (Artist)
+1 happy in all cities
+1 happy with Hit Singles
+2 happy with Liberal
Triggers "Summer of Love" Event: +500 culture all cities (one-time bonus, not repeating), +3 temporary UNHAPPY all cities
The Counterculture tech is to represent the hippies of the 1960's. Ecology and Minority Rights are rebellious technologies against the status quo, and Guerrilla Warfare represents the tactics of radical groups (also the adoption of certain figures like Che Guevara and the bogging-down of the Vietnam War). The Multilingual civic is a civilization that has numerous languages and uses all of them, but doesn't enforce multilingualism the way the Language Education civic does. Therefore, compared to Language Education, it's cheaper (less money spent on language teachers) and less science (mistranslations result in lost opportunities) but culture is the same (different cultures are free to build their own traditions) and so are relations with other leaders (you can find SOMEONE in your government who understands the foreigners' languages). National stability takes a penalty with Multilingual because of the lack of a common language to rally around.
Woodstock is a Great Wonder. The one-time "Summer of Love" event triggers on building the wonder, granting the fairly large culture bonus to all cities (it could even be higher), but causing a temporary happiness penalty as the counterculture figures march and the reactionaries write sternly worded letters to the editors of their local newspapers.
Also, I think Counterculture would be a good technology to possibly lead to either a New Age or Wicca religion-founding technology if you want another modern era religion.
What do you think of these two?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
1. Would Parliament (Power) [Req Political Philosophy] civic get moved to Parliaments tech?
2. Multilingual civic is more or less the same as Language Eduction civic. How do you see this is different?
Overall I like these.
1. Would Parliament (Power) [Req Political Philosophy] civic get moved to Parliaments tech?
2. Multilingual civic is more or less the same as Language Eduction civic. How do you see this is different?
Overall I like these.
1. I don't want to move the Parliament power civic (I said that in the description). The Parliaments tech is establishing a Parliament, but a Parliament still (somewhat) subservient to the ruler. Political Philosophy, I think, better establishes putting real power in the hands of the Parliament.
2. Multilingual is supposed to be a hybrid between Interpreters and Language Education. Compared to Language Education, it has lower upkeep, lower Science, and a national stability penalty. Compared to Interpreters, it has higher Culture, a higher relations bonus with other leaders, and the same stability penalty. I don't want Multilingual strictly better than either of them, so I added a stability penalty.
@Vokarya:
1. Parliaments sound great to me.
2. Counterculture doesn't really feel like a tech to me, it was more a reaction by a certain portion of society (young people) against the powers that be. I feel that that could be much more effectively accomplished via events, not a tech.
1. Parliaments sound great to me.
2. Counterculture doesn't really feel like a tech to me, it was more a reaction by a certain portion of society (young people) against the powers that be. I feel that that could be much more effectively accomplished via events, not a tech.
The original name that I thought of was Cultural Diversity. I wanted to do Burning Man as a Wonder (inspired by the book TIME Great Places of History, along with the flaming zombies in Fall From Heaven 2) and I couldn't find a really good technology to attach it to. The best I could come up with was Tourism. So I was looking for a technology to sum up the emergence of multiculturalism. I thought Counterculture made a better name, but I could go with Cultural Diversity or Multiculturalism. I was trying to find another civic that this would grant - I was thinking a civic of absolute equality would be great, but there doesn't seem to be a category that really fits.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
@Vokarya
Humanism?
Humanism?
Are you referring to the Humanism technology? That's back in the Renaissance Era. What I am proposing is something more radical.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
Philanthropy?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
But where it sits on the tree makes it between Language Education and Universal Translator.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Technically there are three Humanisms "early Christian", the medieval/renaissance, and the modern post WWII one.
"Counterculture" was just a rehash of the 14-16th century renaissance in one generation.
Sarah Starlight
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2012
- Messages
- 81
here are the buttons you request Ls612
karma and religious buttons.
karma and religious buttons.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'd call it Counterculturalism to make it more of a tech name. I think it has its place. It's basically the Psychedelic Revolution you're referring to there. Hippies, burningman, rainbow gatherings etc... much of which still persists today as an undercurrent in our culture.
I don't know if the name needs to be extended all the way to Countercultur - alism. I think maybe because it's a compound word, not just a word with a prefix. Counterculturalism sounds clunky to me - I think it sounds better as just Counterculture. Multiculturalism definitely needs the -ism, because Multiculture just sounds strange.
Philanthropy is organized but non-governmental charity, so that's not the right word.
True. I wanted something that would be a viable alternative to Language Education. Right now, the Language civic seems more like a ladder than a choice; you switch to the newest one as it becomes available. Maybe Multilingual needs more culture (like +60% culture all cities)?
I took a little time to puzzle out Colonialism and Imperialism. This is what I think would work:
New Techs
Colonialism (Renaissance Era)
Cost: 2000
Location: X46 Y3
Req Techs: Leadership AND Mercantilism AND Sextant
Leads to: Emancipation, Labor Union
Allows: Colonist, Culture (Haitian), Culture (South African)
Imperialism (Industrial Era)
Cost: 4500
Location: X58 Y3
Req Techs: Colonialism AND Semi-Automatic Weapons AND (Railroad OR Screw Propeller)
Leads to: Fascism
Allows: Nothing yet. I would like to put Bayreuth Festspielhaus and Crystal Palace wonders here.
Altered Techs
Emancipation
Req Techs: Colonialism AND Representative Democracy
Labor Union
Req Techs: Assembly Line AND Colonialism AND Marxism AND Patent Rights
Fascism
Req Techs: Imperialism AND Psychology
Would this work? Any changes to the prerequisites or the leads-to techs?
New Techs
Colonialism (Renaissance Era)
Cost: 2000
Location: X46 Y3
Req Techs: Leadership AND Mercantilism AND Sextant
Leads to: Emancipation, Labor Union
Allows: Colonist, Culture (Haitian), Culture (South African)
Imperialism (Industrial Era)
Cost: 4500
Location: X58 Y3
Req Techs: Colonialism AND Semi-Automatic Weapons AND (Railroad OR Screw Propeller)
Leads to: Fascism
Allows: Nothing yet. I would like to put Bayreuth Festspielhaus and Crystal Palace wonders here.
Altered Techs
Emancipation
Req Techs: Colonialism AND Representative Democracy
Labor Union
Req Techs: Assembly Line AND Colonialism AND Marxism AND Patent Rights
Fascism
Req Techs: Imperialism AND Psychology
Would this work? Any changes to the prerequisites or the leads-to techs?
One thing I have never been really comfortable with is how to assign a cost to a new technology. Most of how I do it is an educated guess based on what's around it. Also, there are some tech costs that seem really weird (Radio Astronomy is base 1760 surrounded by techs in the 4000-5000 range) and I would like to take a stab at reorganizing the costs so they make more sense.
I think we have a system in place for costing techs in the Prehistoric and Ancient Eras. Could someone post the current version?
Also, could someone post a list of how many turns that each Era is SUPPOSED to last? That will give me some benchmarks.
I think we have a system in place for costing techs in the Prehistoric and Ancient Eras. Could someone post the current version?
Also, could someone post a list of how many turns that each Era is SUPPOSED to last? That will give me some benchmarks.
Here are the numbers for Epic, Eternity, and Snail. To get the numbers for marathon, multiply all of the Snail numbers by 0.6, and you will have the approximate number of turns for that speed.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Looks way better! great job!
@ls612
Please add these along with Parliaments and Counterculture (yes I want this added). Thanks!
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