Tech Tree Discussion

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem with a technology only being required as OR prerequisites means that you can theoretically skip the tech if you research all the other OR's. Remember why I asked to change Banking? You could skip Usury forever because the only place it was required was an OR tech for Banking. We need to have at least one AND for Reincarnation and Resurrection for them to be completely woven into the tree.

See that is something I disagree with. The things that the tech gives you should be enough that you wont skip it. This is why I wanted camel/horse/elephant domestication to all be semi dead end techs you only needing one to get through the tree. Because those techs are useless in themselves if you don't have access to that resource. However they are very useful in their own right if you do have multiple riding animal resources.

 

[Vokarya]

See that is something I disagree with. The things that the tech gives you should be enough that you wont skip it. This is why I wanted camel/horse/elephant domestication to all be semi dead end techs you only needing one to get through the tree. Because those techs are useless in themselves if you don't have access to that resource. However they are very useful in their own right if you do have multiple riding animal resources.

It doesn't matter to me if some techs are dead-end or not, but since other people want it that way, I am trying to help bring that about.

I am working on some new wonder graphics for ideas that I can't completely implement yet due to XML issues. Once those are done, I will try and work up some new buildings to fill in some of these techs.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I can go with the first one (Reincarnation -> Meritocracy), but I don't think the Greeks were very big on an afterlife. I was thinking about it some more, and I think this is ideal:

Fundamentalism
Req Techs: Theology AND Resurrection

The idea here is that the idea of a glorious resurrection pushes people into fearlessness in holy war. (I still think Holy War is a better name than Fundamentalism, as Fundamentalism is a 20th-century concept. But that's a separate discussion.) Would this work?

Sounds good! Nice brainstorming!

@ls612

Please add the changes to Meritocracy and Fundamentalism please. Thanks!

 

[ls612]

There is already a TECH_IMPERIALISM, so I don't think I need to add another one.

 

[Hydromancerx]

There is already a TECH_IMPERIALISM, so I don't think I need to add another one.

You still have to alter the existing one to the new stats.

 

[ls612]

You still have to alter the existing one to the new stats.

OK, that's done now.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

BYW, I am thinking that the new blank religion techs may be useful for Sevo's "Faces of God" mod I am looking at. I had stopped work on it because I could not figure out where it fitted in c2c. These techs may provide the stuff I need.

 

[Hydromancerx]

BYW, I am thinking that the new blank religion techs may be useful for Sevo's "Faces of God" mod I am looking at. I had stopped work on it because I could not figure out where it fitted in c2c. These techs may provide the stuff I need.

Sounds cool! If you ever need another tech just let us know.

 

[jmmendesp]

Is there a feature that I missed that gives me speed bonuses when researching certain techs? Or is this a bug?

Looking at the tech tree in my current game,

Paper - 18k beakers -> 9 turns.
Usury - 18k beakers -> 40 (!) turns

Invention - 22k beakers -> 11 turns
Surveying - 21k beakers -> 47 (!) turns.

I'm producing 2931 beakers per turn.

Note - these are all turns to research each individual tech. I have the tech prerequisites for all of them.

 

[Koshling]

Is there a feature that I missed that gives me speed bonuses when researching certain techs? Or is this a bug?

Looking at the tech tree in my current game,

Paper - 18k beakers -> 9 turns.
Usury - 18k beakers -> 40 (!) turns

Invention - 22k beakers -> 11 turns
Surveying - 21k beakers -> 47 (!) turns.

I'm producing 2931 beakers per turn.

There are events that give you reserach towards certain techs I think, and of course GPs can part-reserach techs, but you'd have known about that.

 

[jmmendesp]

There are events that give you reserach towards certain techs I think, and of course GPs can part-reserach techs, but you'd have known about that.

Hmm. Well, these are the turn estimations that I get by looking at the tech-tree, so before any GP intervention. And I don't remember any event like that happening.

 

[Koshling]

Hmm. Well, these are the turn estimations that I get by looking at the tech-tree, so before any GP intervention. And I don't remember any event like that happening.

If you provide a save game I can find out...

 

[jmmendesp]

If you provide a save game I can find out...

Thanks, here ya go. Using v24.

 

[BlueGenie]

There could be some serious Tech Diffusion going on too, which would explain part of it.
As for taking longer than it should with your amount of beakers you need to know/remember that your total output of is reduced by certain %-ages in each Era so as not to have the game over before it's begun.

Cheers

 

[ls612]

There could be some serious Tech Diffusion going on too, which would explain part of it.
As for taking longer than it should with your amount of beakers you need to know/remember that your total output of is reduced by certain %-ages in each Era so as not to have the game over before it's begun.

Cheers

This whole thing is odd. Paper and Usury both have a base cost of 850, and are both in the medieval era. I do think that there is a display bug with the tech cost modifications by era, but that wouldn't account for this, as the techs are both Medieval.

 

[jmmendesp]

This whole thing is odd. Paper and Usury both have a base cost of 850, and are both in the medieval era. I do think that there is a display bug with the tech cost modifications by era, but that wouldn't account for this, as the techs are both Medieval.

Yeah, pretty weird. The two techs do have the same cost. The AI civs are taking very long to research usury/surveying, too, so at least I'm not at a disadvantage

I should say the savegame is on a huge perfectworld2f map, with about 40 civs in it currently - so heads up if you decide to try it.

 

[jmmendesp]

There could be some serious Tech Diffusion going on too, which would explain part of it.
As for taking longer than it should with your amount of beakers you need to know/remember that your total output of is reduced by certain %-ages in each Era so as not to have the game over before it's begun.

Cheers

Ah, I didn't know that about beakers - or about tech diffusion existed. How does it work?

Still, though, two techs that cost the same should always take the same time to research, right?

 

[ls612]

Ah, I didn't know that about beakers - or about tech diffusion existed. How does it work?

Still, though, two techs that cost the same should always take the same time to research, right?

Approximately. They should not have nearly that amount of difference though, and there are some display issues with it as well, so there are most certainly some bugs here. Also, thanks for that save, it looks like a good candidate for benchmarking performance.

 

[jmmendesp]

Approximately. They should not have nearly that amount of difference though, and there are some display issues with it as well, so there are most certainly some bugs here. Also, thanks for that save, it looks like a good candidate for benchmarking performance.

No problem. If anyone using the save for benchmarking purposes wants to give some ideas on how to eventually stop the Romans from winning this game, it'd be appreciated

 

[BlueGenie]

If a certain amount of teams (Civilizations unless playing teams) that you have contact with have the technology you are researching (or looking at) you get a bonus to your . The exact amounts I'm not sure about but it increases with every team that has it.

If you are 12% or more behind the tech score leader (not totally sure about what the tech score constitutes though) you also get "welfare" counted towards your science. The exact amounts I'm not sure about.

This is not visible in your output but is noticeable when checking how long time it would take to research a technology.

@ls612: I think I know where those huge differences are coming from. The diffusion and welfare could very well be counted before your BBAITech cost increase, and not subject to it once counted for total.
Thus having 1000 with 1000 from diffusion/welfare subject to a 33% modifier for 333 total might be 1333 with diffusion/welfare rather than 666.
Might be something to look into and possibly check the ratios of diffusion/welfare slightly?

Cheers