Tech Tree Discussion

[strategyonly]

The redundancies may be cleared out by Vokarya's efforts now, he usually checks for that. I really like his style as a modder because he looks over everything in detail to make sure that nothing is missed.

At any rate, if any of the issues are still around come February please feel free to share them (in the Existing Buildings thread),

I agree with you here, Vokarya's effort on the redundancies is awesome. But he is taking a break also, in RL so it might be awhile again, after Dec. So dont expect anything after around mid-Jan from him till later Feb.

 

[Alex Costa]

I agree with you here, Vokarya's effort on the redundancies is awesome. But he is taking a break also, in RL so it might be awhile again, after Dec. So dont expect anything after around mid-Jan from him till later Feb.

Well in the meantime I suppose we could make a list of what redundancies they are left so Vokarya has less work.

 

[strategyonly]

Well in the meantime I suppose we could make a list of what redundancies they are left so Vokarya has less work.

Go for it.

 

[Vokarya]

Here is the third part of the Industrial Era. These are techs that historically date from 1900-1925.

Date Tech Event
1900 Zeppelins First zeppelin flight
1903 Flight Wright Brothers first powered, sustained flight
1905 Theory of Relativity Einstein publishes On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies
1905 Expressionism Die Brücke founded in Dresden
1909 Industrialism Mass production of Model T Ford
1910 Antibiotics First antibiotic: arsphenamine
1910 Modern Sanitation Darnall develops water purification by chlorine
1911 Cubism First exhibition by Cubists
1914 Trench Warfare World War I entrenchment
1915 Animation Cel animation technqiue developed
1915 Coast Guard United States Coast Guard created
1915 Aviation Junkers J 1 first all-metal aircraft
1916 Dada Cabaret Voltaire
1916 Armored Vehicles British Mark I tank
1917 Communism Communist revolutions in Russia
1917 Submarine Warfare Germany uses unrestricted submarine warfare
1918 Automatic Weapons Browning Automatic Rifle
1919 Fascism Fascist Manifesto published
1919 Modern Art Bauhaus School
1922 Plastics Bakelite produced
1922 Sonar ASDIC developed
1924 Surrealism Surrealist Manifesto published
1925 Dieselpunk Le Corbusier defines art deco (important visual influence)
1925 Consumerism Sloan introduces annual model years for GM cars

Probably the only one here that I'm not completely certain of is Aviation. We have a group of different flight-related technologies: Flight, Aviation, Aerodynamics, Vertical Flight, Jet Propulsion, and Supersonic Flight, and I'm not quite sure necessarily where to place all of them. The other option for Aviation is putting it off until 1929 and the development of instrumental flight. Let me know if there is anything else I should tweak.

 

[Flinx]

Aviation seems to fit as the first flight squadrons or warfare use of aircrafts.
This would put it around 1917.

 

[Alex Costa]

Here is the third part of the Industrial Era. These are techs that historically date from 1900-1925.

Date Tech Event
1900 Zeppelins First zeppelin flight
1903 Flight Wright Brothers first powered, sustained flight
1905 Theory of Relativity Einstein publishes On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies
1905 Expressionism Die Brücke founded in Dresden
1909 Industrialism Mass production of Model T Ford
1910 Antibiotics First antibiotic: arsphenamine
1910 Modern Sanitation Darnall develops water purification by chlorine
1911 Cubism First exhibition by Cubists
1914 Trench Warfare World War I entrenchment
1915 Animation Cel animation technqiue developed
1915 Coast Guard United States Coast Guard created
1915 Aviation Junkers J 1 first all-metal aircraft
1916 Dada Cabaret Voltaire
1916 Armored Vehicles British Mark I tank
1917 Communism Communist revolutions in Russia
1917 Submarine Warfare Germany uses unrestricted submarine warfare
1918 Automatic Weapons Browning Automatic Rifle
1919 Fascism Fascist Manifesto published
1919 Modern Art Bauhaus School
1922 Plastics Bakelite produced
1922 Sonar ASDIC developed
1924 Surrealism Surrealist Manifesto published
1925 Dieselpunk Le Corbusier defines art deco (important visual influence)
1925 Consumerism Sloan introduces annual model years for GM cars

Probably the only one here that I'm not completely certain of is Aviation. We have a group of different flight-related technologies: Flight, Aviation, Aerodynamics, Vertical Flight, Jet Propulsion, and Supersonic Flight, and I'm not quite sure necessarily where to place all of them. The other option for Aviation is putting it off until 1929 and the development of instrumental flight. Let me know if there is anything else I should tweak.

Aviation should indeed stay in Late Industrial.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Shouldn't Communism be linked to the Communist Manifesto, instead of the Bolshevik Revolution?

 

[Alex Costa]

Shouldn't Communism be linked to the Communist Manifesto, instead of the Bolshevik Revolution?

No. What we recall as Communist Manifesto is actually Marxism.

 

[ls612]

@Vokarya:

I'm liking what I see so far. I look forward to seeing the new tech grid for this, but great work so far.

 

[Vokarya]

No. What we recall as Communist Manifesto is actually Marxism.

Exactly. The Manifesto is the Marxism tech, and the Communism tech is when a Communist system was actually implemented. Looking at prerequisites, I think Communism is probably going to wind up requiring Industrialism, as it currently just requires Labor Union.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Probably the only one here that I'm not completely certain of is Aviation. We have a group of different flight-related technologies: Flight, Aviation, Aerodynamics, Vertical Flight, Jet Propulsion, and Supersonic Flight, and I'm not quite sure necessarily where to place all of them. The other option for Aviation is putting it off until 1929 and the development of instrumental flight. Let me know if there is anything else I should tweak.

Just consider what aircraft are enabled at each tech.

 

[Vokarya]

Just consider what aircraft are enabled at each tech.

That's what I'm looking at. Aviation seems to be units at the beginning of World War 2:

• Propeller Fighter
• Propeller Naval Fighter
• Propeller Tactical Bomber

so it fits the late 20's to early 30's better.

Aerodynamics has units historically developed during World War 2:

• Paratrooper
• Propeller Bomber (is this the B-26 or the B-52?)
• A-Bomb

which feels to me like this needs to be an Industrial tech instead of a Modern tech, or the units at Aerodynamics need to be moved to Aviation.

I'm thinking of moving the line between the Industrial Era and the Modern Era so that the Modern Era begins with Electronics and Modern Physics. These two techs, especially Electronics, seem to be the real beginning of the Modern Era.

 

[ls612]

I'm thinking of moving the line between the Industrial Era and the Modern Era so that the Modern Era begins with Electronics and Modern Physics. These two techs, especially Electronics, seem to be the real beginning of the Modern Era.

I would say that IRL the Modern era begins with the end of the Second World War politically, economically, militarily, and technologically, so that would equate to Fission and the techs around that.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya

According to intlidave's notes ...

Aviation

Propeller Fighter
"This unit represents WW2 era fighters (Hurricane, Me-109, FW-190, Yak-9, P51, etc)."

Propeller Naval Fighter
"This unit represents Corsair, Hellcat, Supermarine Seafire, Zero and other WW2 carrier planes."

Propeller Tactical Bomber
"This unit represents Ju-87, B-25, IL-2 and other tank killers of WW2 and right after (A-1 skyraider)"

-----

Aerodynamics

Propeller Bomber
- No notes.

A-Bomb
- No Notes

If that helps at all.

 

[Vokarya]

To finish off the Industrial Era, here are the remainder of the techs that will stay in the Industrial Era. I'd like to do some shuffling between the Industrial and Modern Eras, and I think the line between the two should be if the technology was in use during World War II, then it's Industrial; if it was developed after the war, it should be Modern.

Date Tech Event
1926 Rocketry Goddard launches liquid-fueled rocket
1927 Cosmology Big Bang model developed
1927 Quantum Physics Heisenberg formulates uncertainty principle
1932 Advanced Metallurgy Kroll produces titanium metal
1933 Radio Astronomy First astronomical radio source discovered
1938 Fission Hahn splits the atom
1939 Guerrilla Warfare Resistance movements in WWII
1939 Mechanized Warfare German blitzkrieg tactics
1940 Logistics Blackett develops Operational Research
1942 Amphibious Warfare Allied landings at Guadalcanal

I think these currently Industrial techs should be moved to the Modern Era.

Date Tech Event
1947 Electronics Transistor invented
1948 Deep Sea Exploration Bathyscaphe created
1948 Atompunk First Soviet nuclear bomb test starts Cold War
1949 Modern Physics Quantum electrodynamics developed
1952 Pop Art Independent Group founds pop art
1954 Long-Range Forecasting First operational forecasts
1954 Solar Power Silicon solar cell created
1964 Mass Transit Tokaido Shinkansen

And then a few techs need to come back from the Modern Era to the Industrial:

Date Tech Event
1936 Applied Economics Keynes publishes The General Theory of Employment
1939 Radar Chain Home system established in Britain
1940 Naval Aviation HMS Illustrious commissioned with armored flight deck

I'm on the fence right now about Advanced Rocketry. It looks like it should be a Modern Era tech, but the Bazooka unit is a World War II era unit. The Bazooka currently requires both Advanced Rocketry and Mechanized Warfare. I think we should drop the Advanced Rocketry requirement and make it just Mechanized Warfare, as it was mostly an early anti-tank unit.

Let me know what you think of this.

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokarya

According to intlidave's notes ...

Aviation

Propeller Fighter
"This unit represents WW2 era fighters (Hurricane, Me-109, FW-190, Yak-9, P51, etc)."

Propeller Naval Fighter
"This unit represents Corsair, Hellcat, Supermarine Seafire, Zero and other WW2 carrier planes."

Propeller Tactical Bomber
"This unit represents Ju-87, B-25, IL-2 and other tank killers of WW2 and right after (A-1 skyraider)"

-----

Aerodynamics

Propeller Bomber
- No notes.

A-Bomb
- No Notes

If that helps at all.

I'm going to have Aviation be later than what I originally said, so that it comes closer to the end of the Industrial Era. I do think that we need the first nuclear unit to be in the Industrial Era, so we may need to move Aerodynamics back as well. I'm still not sure.

 

[Vokarya]

I would say that IRL the Modern era begins with the end of the Second World War politically, economically, militarily, and technologically, so that would equate to Fission and the techs around that.

I think Fission and the first nuclear unit (currently the A-Bomb) need to stay in the Industrial Era, and then the Modern Era is the Electronic Age, and so it starts with the Electronics technology.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Let me know what you think of this.

They seem reasonable.

 

[ls612]

I think Fission and the first nuclear unit (currently the A-Bomb) need to stay in the Industrial Era, and then the Modern Era is the Electronic Age, and so it starts with the Electronics technology.

Technologically yes the Modern era has been the Electronic age. However the modern era began politcally in 1945, and economically during the war (after the Depression ended), so that is why I generally base my transition there. Besides, 1945 is as good a delineation year as 1948 (the year the first transistor is developed for radios).

 

[Vokarya]

Technologically yes the Modern era has been the Electronic age. However the modern era began politcally in 1945, and economically during the war (after the Depression ended), so that is why I generally base my transition there. Besides, 1945 is as good a delineation year as 1948 (the year the first transistor is developed for radios).

As far as I can tell, there aren't any techs between 1942 and 1947 (when the very first transistor is demonstrated). So we can put that cutoff for the Industrial anywhere.