Term 3 - Presidential thread: The buck stops here!

[Donovan Zoi]

I believe that the next people to name cities would be:

Zarn - FA Leader(T3) names existing city
Rik Meleet - Governor of Esquiline(T3 incumbent) names existing city
Gingerbread Man - Governor of Capitoline(T3 new)
Noldodan - Governor of Aventine(T3 new)
Vander - Public Defender(T3)
Fionn McCumhall - Judge Advocate(T1)
Almightyjosh - Domestic Leader(T2) [unless resigning his post before term's end makes him ineligible]
All Term 3 deputies
All Term 1 deputies who have yet to name a city
All Term 2 deputies who have yet to name a city
The citizenry

I believe that this is the way it has always been, though PD Vander may be before the governors. I really don't see a need to deviate from precedent. Let me know what you think.

 

[Noldodan]

I believe the you are forgetting a certain *cough* governor in your list. *cough* Sorry, I have a horrible cough today.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Thanks, Noldodan. Apparently, I am a bit under the weather myself..... Problem fixed.

 

[donsig]

Donovan Zoi's naming list seems fine. Rik Meleet has already posted his desire to rename South Canal Town. Zarn has naming rights to the other city on the Bay. I think it is currently named Bay Town. We will have three more cities (at least) next turn chat so Gingerbread Man, Noldodan and Vander should post the names they want to use. If they don't I will make up a name to be used until they decide on the name they want at which time I will rename the city for them.

 

[Noldodan]

Originally posted by donsig
We will have three more cities (at least) next turn chat so Gingerbread Man, Noldodan and Vander should post the names they want to use. If they don't I will make up a name to be used until they decide on the name they want at which time I will rename the city for them.

I for one shall be naming my city only after I see its site.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Noldodan

I for one shall be naming my city only after I see its site.

That is not a problem Governor Noldodan. I just wonder at this point if the citizens will decide before the chat where they want the three new cities to be...

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, the Domestic Department is the one that handles that .

 

[Noldodan]

Well, I have not had citizen input on this, but here are my views on city placement. Two good sites in Aventine. One is in the forest to the north of the horses on the bay, and the other is the hill to the north of the dyes, or possibly the grassland to the west of the iron.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Noldodan
Well, I have not had citizen input on this, but here are my views on city placement. Two good sites in Aventine. One is in the forest to the north of the horses on the bay, and the other is the hill to the north of the dyes, or possibly the grassland to the west of the iron.

Good sites indeed but they are not in Aventine. We need a new province! The exact southern border of Aventine has not yet been fixed but the city of Bootia is not in Aventine province. I suggest a new province that will run from the southern border of Aventine and includes all the land on the peninsula south and southeast of Aventine province.

We need another Governor/Senator! Can we get nominations going ASAP?

 

[GenMarshall]

The Fanatican Election office

Donsig,

The Election office has heard your words. We shall take care of the Nomination and Election process. Please let me know.

Thanks,
CivGeneral, Election Office Director

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by CivGeneral
The Fanatican Election office

Donsig,

The Election office has heard your words. We shall take care of the Nomination and Election process. Please let me know.

Thanks,
CivGeneral, Election Office Director

Yes, please move forward on this! We should also get a discussion going to formally define this new province. Can you start a discussion about that as well?

 

[GenMarshall]

Ill Quickly Post up the Nominations and the Discussion.

 

[donsig]

From the Office of the President:

I have spent over three hours today attempting to find a solution to our recent constitutional crisis. Three hours of debates and negotiations with the group that has instigated a public investigation of me has resulted only in more accusations against me. I have now been accused of bribery. I offered to not run for re-election and to support CivGeneral in a bid for the presidency if the PI against me were to be dropped. I made the offer because CivGeneral is the one who made the charges and has the power to drop them. The PI is not productive to the growth of our country or our government. The PI is also on very shaky gound legally and frankly should be thrown out by the JA. Had CivGeneral been able to see this and withdrawn the charges in an effort to spare our nation of the tiresome and distracting issue I would have gladly supported him for the highest office as he would have deserved my support (and yours as well) for putting his country first. Instead my gesture has been considered a bribe and that is where I have drawn the line.

Mark these words: I do not need to bribe anyone. I fully expect that my actions will be found to have been legal and I will be exonerrated from these frivoulous charges. I had only hoped to end the process quicky for the sake of our country.

In the face of these insidious accusations of bribery I have decided to suspend the use of turn chats until all charges filed against me are resolved. The game will continue without turn chats. I will play the game off-line using whatever legal instructions are posted in the turn chat instruction thread. I will keep game notes as required by the constutition and post them with the saves. Since there is such disagreement between the President and certain citizens over what constitutes legal instructions from a leader and since such disagreement has led to the filing of a public investigation against the President I see no way to continue the game using turn chats until the disagreement is resolved. I regret taking this step but feel I must do so.

The game will next be played Wednesday morning, July 9. Game play instructions must be posted by 9am (EDT), Wednesday, July 9. I belive that is 1300 GDT (though I may be wrong about the Greenwich time).

Next game play instruction thread.

 

[donsig]

The Kingdom of Fanatica was proclaimed in the year 320 AD. There ws rejoicing throughout the kingdom as donsig led our glorious Legions through Egypt in search of the evil Aztecs who once dared settle on our side of the Great Bay. Our Legions in Egypt first made their way to Pi-Rameses where the nearby iron resource was pillaged. These Legions then followed the hills in an advance towards Tzintzuntzen. Meanwhile our *allies* made peace with Montezuma! Our legions forged ahead and on the plains before Tzintzuntzen a fierce battle was fought and won by Trajan. This victory brought Montezuma to the peace table and King donsig made peace with the Aztecs in return for the cities of Tula and Teayo. Trajan was sent on a triumphant journey back to Fanatica and has reached the outskirts of the Egyptian town of Byblos, only a short distance from Fanatica's borders.

There has been no recent activity in our other war against America. American emissaries have contacted the King offering peace (and the city of Buffalo) but the King refused peace so as not to break the alliances we have with Egypt and Greece. there are still 8 turns remaining in our alliances against America. Abe is still willing to give us peace and will offer our choice of Buffalo, San Francisco or Houston. Houston is on the mountainous Russian continent.

Greek and Egyptian settlers tried penetrating our lands to settle but our forces were able to block them. Our lands are still vulnerable to sea bourne squatters though. An escorted band of Persian settlers recently landed in Esquiline province. We have placed a city in the area which has encouraged the Persians to move on. They seems to be heading for the far west of Esquiline province. This may also be the destination of a Babylonian galley seen recently near the spot where the Persians landed.

In all four cities were founded: Iron Hills west of Lake Asphinxia; Gingerbread City southwest of Bootia on the peninsula; Go home Xerxes and Nodoldan's City in Esquiline province. With our two new Aztec cites we now have a total of 27 cities! We also have two settlers, one in Esquiline and one in Capitoline province. There is still work to be done since the Peninsula has alot of room left for cities and neither Esquiline nor Aventine Province is completely settled yet

We have lost our scientific edge. We were the first to enter the middle ages and we with held currency from all of our rivals. Unfortunately, some countries are more adept at research than we are and have an advantage. The Persians and Greeks both entered the middle ages and each gained a free tech. They gained differenttechs and swapped and now they both have monotheism and engineering. More trading has taken place among our rivals and now Egypt and the Aztecs also have monotheism. We have been researching that tech at a minimal rate and are still 31 turns away from learning it. It is available for purchase.

We have completed our first harbor but we can only trade with our Egyptian and Greek allies who are on our continent.

We are currently in fourth place on the histograph being exactly 100 points behind the front running Babylonians. Though there are other civs we still have not yet met. There is an orange border visible on our maps north of Persia...

 

[Donovan Zoi]

President donsig,

You will be pleased to know that as Judge Advocate, I have found that the current case against you has no merit. What you may not like is that I then resigned my position and opened a new PI citing our very own preamble to the Constitution.

You see, many citizens agreed to this lenient ruleset in the hopes that citizens would not abuse the priviledge and would instead defer to the accepted standards of previous DemoGames to iron out what our Constitution may lack. But you have decided to go against those wishes by exposing each tear in our Constitution and using that advantage to isolate yourself from the populace.

Also, your insistence on playing ten turns per chat, no matter what comes our way, is not in the best interests of our nation. Sometimes situations arise that could have never been predicted by even the most savvy leader. In those instances, the chat must stop. However, your need to play 10 turns no matter what led to your unilateral decision to involve the entire continent in a free-for-all instead of getting the citizens' approval. Were you afraid they would not agree with you?

Finally, being a leader of the nation means leading some of the discussions yourself should they not be posted in a timely manner by others. Once again, while I am sure our Constitution glosses over this, it has been accepted practice for as long as I have been here and should be accepted practice for someone who claims that "the buck stops here." While you have shown excellence in bringing needed information to this thread and the Instruction threads in regards to what happened, I have only seen you lead one discussion(regarding city placement) on what comes next in the Citizen's Forum. One would think that someone concerned with adequate discussion in the Forums would lead by example and begin some of those discussions himself if need be. You know, perhaps the good people of Fanatica would like to know your intentions before they happen. I am sure in many cases, you have a good idea what you want to do before you do it. Why aren't the people informed?

That's all I have. If you decide to continue the practice of unhindered 10-turn (and now private) chats, as well as not making your intentions and desires clear beforehand, my PI will stay active. I hate to do this, but your distancing of the people, even the shameless extortionists you mentioned above, has got to stop. This "tough love" will not have the effect on the Forums you are hoping for.


Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi

 

[donsig]

Thank you for expressing your concerns here DZ. First of all, I would like to say that the reason I have not been able to lead many discussions myself is that ever since the first turn chat of term three I have spent most of my forum time trying to defend myself against a PI that you yourself decided had no merit. That's three hours that could have went into starting discussions.

As for starting discussions before the first turn chat, I had hoped that our leaders would do so. I sent out private messages to our leaders suggesting they include pertient information in their department and province threads. I specifically asked Zarn about the RoP with Greece, the embassy with Egypt and what should be done should the Aztecs settle in our lands. He opened the appropriate polls and discussion thread. He did his job! He even made it clear in the Aztec settlement thread that I favored war if the Aztecs settled. There was no great outcry agianst that war. I asked General Falcon to draw up contingent war plans against the Aztecs. He opened no thread. Is there even a term three military thread? Is it up th ethe President to lead every discussion and open every poll? Must the DP get permission from the citizens for every move he or she makes? Or is permission needed only from those who attend the chat on a regular basis?

We passed a lenient ruleset for this demogame so we would not be burdened with long legal procedures everytime the DP makes a decision someone doesn't like. As I've said elsewhaere, I will gladly accept demogame traditions that are beneficial to our enjoyment of the game. I will not hesitate to break those traditions that hurt the demogame. I am not afraid to try new things, to set new traditions for the good of this game.

I do not have a need to play ten turns per chat. I am quite willing to stop a chat or an off-line game play session if something truly unexpected and serious happens. If you do not believe me I suggest you go to the DG1 archives and read about PI#6. In twenty turns there has been little that was unexpected and serious. The American war cannot be classified as a serious thing. They are far away and no threat to us. The Greeks alliance neutralized them without letting Greece grow at America's expense. Even getting a leader was no reason to stop since he was so far from any of our cities anyway. As for the Aztecs, I could see them settling on our side of the bay. It took one look at the 170 AD save. Why do you think I wanted an embassy with Egypt? So we could get an RoP to facilitate troop movements towards the Aztecs. Did I spell all this out? No. The 170 AD save has been sitting out there since June 19. Two weeks is plenty of time for our leaders and citizens to discuss things and make plans. No one did. You yourself even cancelled the last chat of your term due to lack of interest on the part of the citizenry. While I understand your reasons for doing so I have found through three demogames that stopping game play does not stimulate discussion and polling. The only way to get discussion going is to give the citizens new situations to talk about and that can only be done through playing the game.

As for distancing the people I do not agree that that is what I am doing. I am distancing a certain group of people, i.e., those who are used to attending the chats regularly and exerting more than their share of power through the chats. What I am trying to do is reach out to our citizens who cannot attend the chats and encourage them to rejoin us. Many have come and registered as citizens only to find that you must load the save to see what is going on and then attend the chats to be heard. Most leave the game. This is a forum based game not a chat based game. There is no reason a citizen shouldn't be able to come to these forums, get an idea of what is going on in our country, voice his or her position on our issues and feel as though they are participating in the game! That was the original idea behind the demogame but it has evolved from that into a game where the forums are basically ignored in favor of a system where every move by the DP must be rubber stamped by those at the chat. The demogame is on the verge of collapse not because I decided it was best to go to war with the Aztecs, but because our reliance on the chat has driven away those citizens who cannot or do not want to attend the chats.

I have shaken the tree and perhaps some rotten apples have fallen. Is that a bad thing in the long run? I do hope you will reconsider your decision to resign DZ. Drop the PI and let's move on. I will happily return to the practice of holding turn chats once I see our game play intruction thread used as it should be used. However turn chats will not be used to hold spot votes for decision making purposes. Since those at the chat represent only a fraction of our registered and active citizenry they cannot be deemed to represent the will of the people. I also will not recognize instructions from leaders at the chat as legal instructions. I will happily ask leaders present for advice. I will even wait while said leaders poll the present citizens before giving their advice. But I will reserve the right to make all game play decisions myself, subject of course to those legal instructions in the game play instruction thread. I have no agenda to play ten turns every chat and if something truly unexpected and serious arises I will end the chat.

The focus of this game must return to the forums. By not holding spot votes in the turn chats those at the turn chat would not be ignored any more than those not at the chat would be. As always those who regularly attend the chat still have the opportunity to make themselves heard via the forums.

Thank you,
donsig

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Very well, Mr. President.

It is hard to argue with your explanation, as the Democracy Game is truly broken. I will allow this for now, and drop the current charges against you. My new PI would probably prove to have no merit anyway.

I would write more, but I am under current time constraints. Please know that I now support your decision and will help in any way I can if need be. Thank you for taking the time to fully explain your motives to me. I hope they work.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi

 

[Cyc]

I too stand behind the President and support his ideals. Although his actions may have been a little crisp for some to swallow, I believe these actions have been very effective. Because of the picture that our previous President, Donovan Zoi, has left us in of an increasingly powerful and wise Nation, President donsig's approach has expanded our fortune. With continued success on building what DZ's legacy has given us, we shall soon be rising in the list of Nations.

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

Crisp, Cyc? crisp? devoicing and eliminating turn chats can hardly be called crisp.

 

[Zarn]

Originally posted by donsig
Donovan Zoi's naming list seems fine. Rik Meleet has already posted his desire to rename South Canal Town. Zarn has naming rights to the other city on the Bay. I think it is currently named Bay Town. We will have three more cities (at least) next turn chat so Gingerbread Man, Noldodan and Vander should post the names they want to use. If they don't I will make up a name to be used until they decide on the name they want at which time I will rename the city for them.

I put New Jedina in a post, when I registered as a citizen. Mr. President, if you would be so kind...