robboo
Deity
This is why I suck at civ. I misuse my great people by researching in the wrong order.
Keep talking guys..I am learning.
Keep talking guys..I am learning.
Term 6 President's Thread
- Thread starter Robi D
- Start date
Basically our primary goal seems to be to get to cossaks as soon as possible to do this we need primarily
military tradition which requires nationalism(which in turn requires CS or philo/divine right) and music (which in turn requires math and lit or drama).
This is just to research the tech, now to actually build the damn things we need gunpowder which requires education or guilds.
Now looking at this from a purely GP PoV, we can easily lightbulb CS, followed by philo, then the next inline for a GM is guilds.
During this period we can be researching, drama, music and then basically picking up any other techs.
The one drawback with this is we wont be making full use of our cottaging ability as a financial civ and will be going as a philosophical economy.
However if following us hitting militry tradition we could make a beeline towards Democracy for that 100% growth on cottages- that should in theory catch us up.
Beelining straight for MT however would lead us to miss education and therefore universities...
anyways up to you guys i definatly think with our small population and little chance of it growing for the time being we should start trying to rake in the GP points and GP economy for the time being.
military tradition which requires nationalism(which in turn requires CS or philo/divine right) and music (which in turn requires math and lit or drama).
This is just to research the tech, now to actually build the damn things we need gunpowder which requires education or guilds.
Now looking at this from a purely GP PoV, we can easily lightbulb CS, followed by philo, then the next inline for a GM is guilds.
During this period we can be researching, drama, music and then basically picking up any other techs.
The one drawback with this is we wont be making full use of our cottaging ability as a financial civ and will be going as a philosophical economy.
However if following us hitting militry tradition we could make a beeline towards Democracy for that 100% growth on cottages- that should in theory catch us up.
Beelining straight for MT however would lead us to miss education and therefore universities...
anyways up to you guys i definatly think with our small population and little chance of it growing for the time being we should start trying to rake in the GP points and GP economy for the time being.
Kuningas
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 2,092
Sounds good, BCLG. We are thinking alike in this situation.
To get best of the Colossus and financial trait. At the moment we should not build cottages, assign citizens to water tiles instead and build a lighthouse. When we adapt Emancipation (100% cottage growth) workers change farms to cottages.
To get best of the Colossus and financial trait. At the moment we should not build cottages, assign citizens to water tiles instead and build a lighthouse. When we adapt Emancipation (100% cottage growth) workers change farms to cottages.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
Ok i've just seen this conversation so i'm catching up.
About the barracks in Privet, its going to be a low food, high production city so i though building barracks and forge were the main things, i chose barracks first but it can be swapped around. The horses should be connected around Turn 110.
I'm in favour of getting taoism because taosim+ heriditary rule + dyes + temple doubles the happiness in all our cities, we already have the health for it. This will let us expand to completely take up our peninsula (for lack of a better word). We can pick up CS as we go.
The other thing i would like to do is get archery. Archers are cheap and efficient city defender, that way we can free up the axes to patrol our borders and collect XP's from wondering barbs.
Also if all goes to plan we should have city 6 and 7 founded by the end of this term, at the moment its looking like T115 and 120.
About the barracks in Privet, its going to be a low food, high production city so i though building barracks and forge were the main things, i chose barracks first but it can be swapped around. The horses should be connected around Turn 110.
I'm in favour of getting taoism because taosim+ heriditary rule + dyes + temple doubles the happiness in all our cities, we already have the health for it. This will let us expand to completely take up our peninsula (for lack of a better word). We can pick up CS as we go.
The other thing i would like to do is get archery. Archers are cheap and efficient city defender, that way we can free up the axes to patrol our borders and collect XP's from wondering barbs.
Also if all goes to plan we should have city 6 and 7 founded by the end of this term, at the moment its looking like T115 and 120.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
I was looking at both Hej and Hello, but with the forests Hej does look a better spot to get it out quicker. If we can get it so we have monarchy at the same time it will be good.
Well then we need Hello on GS production, 2 asap.
I however agree with kuningas and that CS should be our primary goal- beauracracy early is far more important than having a religion-especially because philosophy doesnt have as much use as it does in an AI game (one of the techs the AI tend to ignore so you can trade it around).
Archery is one of them techs we can be picking up while we're waiting for certain GP points to be completed, however i can only emphasise how much more important beauracracy is than getting a religion this early.
Archery is a dead tech and i can see what you mean about it being good for city defenders, however now that people are beginning to meet each other and forge alliances then the tech rate will increase and thus it will be even deader faster.
About privet- if its going to be low food then it very badly needs that granary to double its fpt.
We should be trying to get CoL asap so we can switch to caste system, robi you said you replied to their message about the big tech swap? was it just a small note or should i send a whole diplo message?
I however agree with kuningas and that CS should be our primary goal- beauracracy early is far more important than having a religion-especially because philosophy doesnt have as much use as it does in an AI game (one of the techs the AI tend to ignore so you can trade it around).
Archery is one of them techs we can be picking up while we're waiting for certain GP points to be completed, however i can only emphasise how much more important beauracracy is than getting a religion this early.
Archery is a dead tech and i can see what you mean about it being good for city defenders, however now that people are beginning to meet each other and forge alliances then the tech rate will increase and thus it will be even deader faster.
About privet- if its going to be low food then it very badly needs that granary to double its fpt.
We should be trying to get CoL asap so we can switch to caste system, robi you said you replied to their message about the big tech swap? was it just a small note or should i send a whole diplo message?
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
It was just a quick note, but it seemed to be agreed to. Maybe doing up a formal treaty to sign off on would be good.
As for archery, it might take one or two turn to research. Archer also have a good upgrade path, but the main thing is to free up the axes to go do other things then just sit there. If we use them on the barbs then we can have a whole bunch of them with a nice set of promotions to upgrade to maces (and grenadiers) when the time comes, because lets face it unless the other teams are stupid they will have something to counter cossasks.
For the time though after some more axes are built to take on the barbs the main focus on the builds is settlers and workers and squeezing in other stuff along the way. Hopefully we can also find the other 2 teams so we have a good idea on where we stand. I figure if we can take out one of those two we are half way to winning the game.
As for archery, it might take one or two turn to research. Archer also have a good upgrade path, but the main thing is to free up the axes to go do other things then just sit there. If we use them on the barbs then we can have a whole bunch of them with a nice set of promotions to upgrade to maces (and grenadiers) when the time comes, because lets face it unless the other teams are stupid they will have something to counter cossasks.
For the time though after some more axes are built to take on the barbs the main focus on the builds is settlers and workers and squeezing in other stuff along the way. Hopefully we can also find the other 2 teams so we have a good idea on where we stand. I figure if we can take out one of those two we are half way to winning the game.
Kuningas
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 2,092
I just discovered alternative CS lightbulb! Civil service lightbulb is achievable with a Great Prophet. We could do this by building a temple in Aloha. Then one priest specialist there. Meditation is also needed, it that takes two turns. One question remains, do we prefer building a temple or adopting Caste System.
Great Prophet:
Meditation <-research it
Polytheism <-have it
Priesthood <-trade it
Monotheism n/a
Theology n/a
Divine Right n/a
Mysticism <-have it
Masonry (Warlords patch) <-don't get this
Code of Laws <-trade it
Civil Service
Monarchy
Literature
Music
Writing
Philosophy
Printing Press
Drama
Alphabet
Paper
Education
Liberalism
Calendar
Masonry (Vanilla & unpatched Warlords)
Animal Husbandry
Construction
Future Tech
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
The problem with that is that the Colossus is giving GM pts in Aloha, so you would not be certain of getting a GP. Also it would be much quicker to research then build a temple and run a priest.
The way i see it, there is 2 options;
1.We research it ourselfs after the tech trade with Innovia or
2.Innovia research it and we give them Iron Working and Calandar for it (i haven't done the numbers so it might be more)
The second option only works if thats what Innovia are researching. When you write a note to Innovia BC ask them about future research.
The way i see it, there is 2 options;
1.We research it ourselfs after the tech trade with Innovia or
2.Innovia research it and we give them Iron Working and Calandar for it (i haven't done the numbers so it might be more)
The second option only works if thats what Innovia are researching. When you write a note to Innovia BC ask them about future research.
robboo
Deity
I see what you guys are saying but if what Robi is true about gettign it faster with self research...then its almost like you are trying to force a "lightbulb use" for the Great person. I prefer to get a GM( if we get one) and use it to pop out a wonder or other critical build.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
I agree with that, the only problem for us is the low pop makes it difficult to have specialists without losing out from not working very productive tiles.
Also i would bet that Innovia are researching CS now, if thats the case then its better for both of us not to double up on research and it gives us the flexiblity to get a religion.
Also i would bet that Innovia are researching CS now, if thats the case then its better for both of us not to double up on research and it gives us the flexiblity to get a religion.
robboo
Deity
OK so before teh save we need to figure out what we are doing. We seem to be at a cross roads and the next few turns will determine our short term future and it could have longer term implications.
I think a religion is important...how we get it however is not my strong suit. Nor can i go play around in the save to check things out( at my inlaws on vacation or hell I cant tell which).
HOWEVER...what would religion give us. 2 happy faces in each city with a temple and the assorted bonuses running different civics. Is this important enough to try for and not get it or would it be better to go military/gnp boosting and take a religon.
I think a religion is important...how we get it however is not my strong suit. Nor can i go play around in the save to check things out( at my inlaws on vacation or hell I cant tell which).
HOWEVER...what would religion give us. 2 happy faces in each city with a temple and the assorted bonuses running different civics. Is this important enough to try for and not get it or would it be better to go military/gnp boosting and take a religon.
i've been watching this conversation for a while and no one has talked about the beneifits of a super specialist.
I like the idea of a super specialist better then lighting the lightbulb. In the long run we will have a much higher return and it will allow us to increase culture for happyness. For example instead of 90% science and 10% taxes we can have 90% science and 10% culture by adding a specialist that will give us cash. Likewise instead of 90% science and 10% taxes we can have 80% science, 10% taxes and 10% culture by adding a specialist that will give us science.
While I've not looked at the save in a while I believe that we should at least talk about all the options.
I like the idea of a super specialist better then lighting the lightbulb. In the long run we will have a much higher return and it will allow us to increase culture for happyness. For example instead of 90% science and 10% taxes we can have 90% science and 10% culture by adding a specialist that will give us cash. Likewise instead of 90% science and 10% taxes we can have 80% science, 10% taxes and 10% culture by adding a specialist that will give us science.
While I've not looked at the save in a while I believe that we should at least talk about all the options.
Kuningas
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 2,092
I tried to calculate different GS functions. If someone could calculate how many research beakers capital produces in every turn, I would learn academy's true worthiness. I assume that we win in turn 300. So 200 turns left. Allways running max science.
GS lightbulb
1141 beakers (Taoism)
Advantages: instant, religion.
GS super specialist
1hbt + 75% (bureacracy 50%, Forge 25%) x 200 (turns) = 350 hammers
6bpt + 25% (Library 25%) x 200 (turns) = 1500 beakers
an academy
17 bpt (turn 275BC in capital) + 50% (academy 50%) x 200 - 17 bpt x 200 = 5100 - 3400 = 1700 beakers
actual hell of a lot more. 3500 - 5000 beakers.
GS use if we continue researching past Cossacks.
1. an Academy
2. Lightbulb
3. SS
GS use if we stop researching at Cossacks.
1. Lightbulb
2. SS
3. an Academy
GS lightbulb
1141 beakers (Taoism)
Advantages: instant, religion.
GS super specialist
1hbt + 75% (bureacracy 50%, Forge 25%) x 200 (turns) = 350 hammers
6bpt + 25% (Library 25%) x 200 (turns) = 1500 beakers
an academy
17 bpt (turn 275BC in capital) + 50% (academy 50%) x 200 - 17 bpt x 200 = 5100 - 3400 = 1700 beakers
actual hell of a lot more. 3500 - 5000 beakers.
GS use if we continue researching past Cossacks.
1. an Academy
2. Lightbulb
3. SS
GS use if we stop researching at Cossacks.
1. Lightbulb
2. SS
3. an Academy
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
Calandar is 7-8 turns away so we still have around 2 weeks to consider our options.
As i said eariler on of the big unknowns is Innovia in the equation of what we do. If we can work out a trade deal past the current one then we know what to go for.
Also the way i like to use specialists is that i only lightbulb if there is still some research to do, otherwise i feel like i've lost beakers. With a GS i like the idea of a Acadamy, the GM is a bit tougher because we don't know where everyone is so we can't make use of a Merchant. Still i think we are far enough along now that any tech we lighbulb we would get full research for
As i said eariler on of the big unknowns is Innovia in the equation of what we do. If we can work out a trade deal past the current one then we know what to go for.
Also the way i like to use specialists is that i only lightbulb if there is still some research to do, otherwise i feel like i've lost beakers. With a GS i like the idea of a Acadamy, the GM is a bit tougher because we don't know where everyone is so we can't make use of a Merchant. Still i think we are far enough along now that any tech we lighbulb we would get full research for
