Terrible Ideas

Iron was definitely there, and in large amounts, and a few ethniticies used it in craft, like Purepeche (which is why the Aztecs never conquered them), and, indeed, most of the flint to start fires, like in most early tech paradigms, was iron-based. Many paints, whether for buildings, clothes, or bodies, also had a notable iron base. It was really only awaiting a eureka moment to begin such craft on a bigger scale.
Well I was refering to the lack of [insert strategic resource here] more generally. To say that that "terrible idea" is already in the game. :D But thx for the input by the way, it's cool.
superhumans
Yes, and they are called super-warriors (super-guerriers) in french or super sayans. It's a very old TV series I watched when I was a kid, thanks to Dorothée the female animator of kid shows like Récré A2 or Le Club Dorothée who went to Japan to buy multiple franchises. Nostalgia. Goldorak, Candy, Albator, Cobra, Lady Oscar, etc. the japanese franchises she brang to France are countless. Her heritage is that France is one of the first consumer of mangas in the world now.
 
Iron was definitely there, and in large amounts, and a few ethniticies used it in craft, like Purepeche (which is why the Aztecs never conquered them).
A very powerful historical discovery - it's a pity that official science does not agree with it. Purepecha, of course, did not use iron. Their top achievements are bronze. And bronze is the "ceiling" for all of pre-Columbian America.
 
Terrible idea #21 - precolombian simulator: whoops, you get no horses and no farm animals whatsoever, and much less variety of crops so you can't settle lands your opponents can, and also you may be randomly vulnerable to diseases your enemies are immune to!
But on the other hand, you have very productive agricultural crops that allow you to "maintain" a pretentious civilization even on the basis of slash-and-burn agriculture.
Among other things,this means that there is no binding to river valleys, characteristic of Eurasian civilizations actually until the Late Bronze Age.
At the same time, this booster would work perfectly if developed Indians like the Incas/Aztecs were "teleported" to Eurasia (along with corn and potatoes, of course). Providing total superiority in the Neolithic, Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age.
Give more personality to pre-Columbian civilizations - the idea is actually not terrible, but great.
 
Terrible idea #24: add a government corruption mechanic where if you keep the same government for too long, all the stats from various UIs start showing you what you want to see instead of what's actually happening, because over time you've started to surround yourself with sycophants. Eventually the fear of disappointing you gets so bad that even the map doesn't speak the truth anymore, until one day your capital is suddenly under seige.
 
A very powerful historical discovery - it's a pity that official science does not agree with it. Purepecha, of course, did not use iron. Their top achievements are bronze. And bronze is the "ceiling" for all of pre-Columbian America.
Yes, I stand corrected. That doesn't mean that iron, as an innovation, was unattainable as several, "eurekas," away, and would have inevitably required the European arrival and conquest to happen. The presumption that it wouldn't have (which seemed to be the presumption around what I was responded, even if it wasn't completely - since there's now a carrying on the topic, someone must believe) to the point of removing it as a strategic resource indefinitely from a New World milleiu without Old World contact, as surely as horses, is not, and cannot, be supported.
 
Terrible idea #21 - precolombian simulator: whoops, you get no horses and no farm animals whatsoever, and much less variety of crops so you can't settle lands your opponents can, and also you may be randomly vulnerable to diseases your enemies are immune to!
To be fair here is a problem of how it is presented.

The factors that cause this disparity are:
1- Isolation, we must remember that new World Croops like potatoes and maize also have a massive impact in Old World productivy, then demographics thus politics.
2- Orientation, Eurasia(+Norh Africa) has a west-east orientation while America has a north-south orietation making harder to spread and adapt croops and domestic animals trough a more diverse arrange of climate/biomes latitudinal sequence.
3- Size, Afroeurasia have also more territory and population so find and share resources and ideas.
4- The Megafauna resilence, for some still not well know reason the Megafauna assemblages that dealed with humans earlier survived more complete to recent times that the ones that not, so American and Australian got the worse, therefore less options for big domestic animals to ride, pull, feed and sicken for human populations.

So the idea would not be a "Precolombian" simulator but an uneven continents (not-sandbox) map setting. Or in CIV6 terms you start in a small continent without horses and iron.
 
Except that it flies against the design of the game, which is that you AREN'T playing on the geography of the real world, so what resources you do or do not have access to is determined by geography.

The idea that there should be balanced biomes where lack of strategic resources are counterbalanced by other advantages is great. The idea that this should be forced on specific civ is horrendous level of determinism, and well worth the name "terrible idea".

(As to Iron, the main reason for the lack of metalworking for weapons and other sharp tools seems to have largely come down to the prevalence of obsidian: obsidian blades, while very brittle, could achieve sharpness that easily matched or exceeded easily available metals, so there was little push to make weapons or cutting tools out of metal, and, as a result, little push to explore more advanced metallurgy. It's only once they encountered those stronger metals, which were in fact as sharp as or sharper than obsidian and a whole lot less brittle (not to mention armors made of the same), that they realized the advantage of that path. Instead, Mesoamerican metallurgy focused on producing copper alloys for ornamental and symbolic purposes, altering coloration among other things.

So, not a lack of eureka, not a lack of research or capacity to reflect on the use of their material, but simply going down a different technological path that made more sense given the available resources and their needs.)
 
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Terrible idea #24: add a government corruption mechanic where if you keep the same government for too long, all the stats from various UIs start showing you what you want to see instead of what's actually happening, because over time you've started to surround yourself with sycophants. Eventually the fear of disappointing you gets so bad that even the map doesn't speak the truth anymore, until one day your capital is suddenly under seige.

This sounds weirdly amazing, I could enjoy playing some hardcore strategy game where the UI itself is part of the puzzle, you have to struggle to have the clear line of communication and control over your empire and what's actually happening in the field. The player exists as a physical entity on the map and has to invest in the ability to know well what's happening faraway

Obviously it's a Terrible Idea in civ context as we know it
 
terrible idea #25: Most worlds are greenhouses due to the arrangement of continents (so no permanent icecaps or tundra anywhere) but civs are based on the current Earth icehouse meaning cold climate civs simply do not get their special features in 99% of all games ever played. The game does not tell you if the world is a greenhouse or icehouse before you pick a civ, at which point it tells you the civ is unplayable and promptly kicks you out

terrible idea #26: There's a chance a world starts in the middle of a mass extinction on the level of the Great Dying and there's nothing you can do about it
 
terrible idea #25: Most worlds are greenhouses due to the arrangement of continents (so no permanent icecaps or tundra anywhere) but civs are based on the current Earth icehouse meaning cold climate civs simply do not get their special features in 99% of all games ever played. The game does not tell you if the world is a greenhouse or icehouse before you pick a civ, at which point it tells you the civ is unplayable and promptly kicks you out
Civ2. :mischief: Except your choice of civilization was not engaging you in anything except city names and the names of your neighbours. (culturally linked starting locations) But the world was far greener, you had far more space to expand with settlers (I like to expand), and city-States were not a thing. Barbs were more rare too.
 
Terrible idea #27: Want to stop the late game from slogging on when you're already clearly winning? Introducing the new victory condition "declared win"! It can be declared by any player with the highest points at any time*.
*of course all the deity AI can use it
 
Civ2. :mischief: Except your choice of civilization was not engaging you in anything except city names and the names of your neighbours. (culturally linked starting locations) But the world was far greener, you had far more space to expand with settlers (I like to expand), and city-States were not a thing. Barbs were more rare too.
Sort of. But everyone else gets their special features and you don';t.
 
Except that it flies against the design of the game, which is that you AREN'T playing on the geography of the real world, so what resources you do or do not have access to is determined by geography.

The idea that there should be balanced biomes where lack of strategic resources are counterbalanced by other advantages is great. The idea that this should be forced on specific civ is horrendous level of determinism, and well worth the name "terrible idea".

(As to Iron, the main reason for the lack of metalworking for weapons and other sharp tools seems to have largely come down to the prevalence of obsidian: obsidian blades, while very brittle, could achieve sharpness that easily matched or exceeded easily available metals, so there was little push to make weapons or cutting tools out of metal, and, as a result, little push to explore more advanced metallurgy. It's only once they encountered those stronger metals, which were in fact as sharp as or sharper than obsidian and a whole lot less brittle (not to mention armors made of the same), that they realized the advantage of that path. Instead, Mesoamerican metallurgy focused on producing copper alloys for ornamental and symbolic purposes, altering coloration among other things.

So, not a lack of eureka, not a lack of research or capacity to reflect on the use of their material, but simply going down a different technological path that made more sense given the available resources and their needs.)
Agree on the real world historical part, but I think some parts sound uncalled for.
- "Againts the design of the game", equally ballanced starting positions in a random map is the general design for CIV (is a sandbox game), still the suggestion here is realy easy to achieve as a mode that put the player in a difficult disadvantageous start, something that is quite common content for CIV players (just look to Youtube videos about challenging gameplays).
- "Simply going down a different technological path", meanwhile this is not simpler neither more in-design for the game, something like this would depart more from CIV formula and would need way more ballance. We can allways point X or Y examples of technologies that did not followed the western-centric historical path but the game use this model also for game design and ballance reasons, the amount of possible alternate ways and sequences of technologies mean a lot more of effort including many possible routes that dont even have historical precedents. Worse in this case since is directly related to militar units.
- "The idea that this should be forced on specific civ is horrendous level of determinism", OK, but my whole post was about how in game this could be used for any civ starting in an isolated disadvantageous position, nuancing @Krajzen idea that could be interpreted the other way. So there is NO civ forced by its name but a challenging starting position for any player that want an extra difficult mode.
- "Simply going down a different technological path that made more sense given the available resources and their needs", so in the example of implement Bronze/Iron instead of Obsidian how would be implemented in-game the mechanic to make more sense this technological change?
I dont see real value investing in alternate tech paths when yourself point the average ballanced random map/starting postition as part of CIV design, that would put all civs on the same area next to each others, turning your "they realized the advantage of that path" in the immediate outcome the moment any civ achieve metal weapons.
 
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That was crossed lines - I couldn't see your post for some reason when I posted, I was addressing Pecheneg's idea that this should be specifically pre-Columbian civs specific flavor, rather than a general game possibility.

Your observations and thoughts, I generally agree with, though I retain a certain wariness of the north-south part of the explanation, and geographical determinism in general.
 
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Terrible Idea #28: Parental Controls for Restartitis.

When enabled, after a certain number of restarts the game will prevent you from restarting or creating any new games and instead say, "You get what you get and you don't get upset!" No new games or maps until a certain amount of time has passed, like 1 week (adjustable in parental settings).
 
That was crossed lines - I couldn't see your post for some reason when I posted, I was addressing Pecheneg's idea that this should be specifically pre-Columbian civs specific flavor, rather than a general game possibility.

Your observations and thoughts, I generally agree with, though I retain a certain wariness of the north-south part of the explanation, and geographical determinism in general.
I think many people misuse the concept of "Geographic Determinism", I mean these two examples are not the same:
A- The tropical biomes of Northern South America, Central America and the Caribbean were a limiting factor to introduce the Andean Llama and Alpaca to Mesoamerica.
B- The different power structure (institutions, state fragmentation, hierarchies, religion role, etc.) between medieval Europe and China are a direct product of the geographic differences between these regions.

So personally, I think my points are way closer to the first that the second example, plus I am using the elements from the traditional model of CIV were many players quit a match the moment they realize they dont have a good start, something that is already quite "geographical deterministic" if you ask me. :mischief:
 
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Forget geographical determinism, we need nominative determinism. All game outcomes are now dependent solely on the leaders present in that game, which is calculated solely based on that leaders name.
 
terrible wonder idea: plymouth rock from the united states, not as a natural wonder but a wonder that you have to build, takes away your production and has a minor buff completely unrelated to it (like making all ships until idk, modern age cruisers have 1 more movement) plymouth.jpg

this will be it's iconSin título.png
 
terrible wonder idea: plymouth rock from the united states, not as a natural wonder but a wonder that you have to build, takes away your production and has a minor buff completely unrelated to it (like making all ships until idk, modern age cruisers have 1 more movement)View attachment 674311

this will be it's iconView attachment 674312
If anyone gets a, "rock," that helps their navy, It's the British. The Americans put criminals on their, "rock," (which is also a different, "rock,").
 
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