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Testing out CxxC vs Metros for Space Race ability

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Othniel, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    LOL! And here I was, hoping no one would notice if I just slipped away and never updated this thread again...:lol:

    Actually, I am planning on getting this thing back going. My civ commitment is only the SGOTM and this, plus the very occasional COTM, so I shouldn't get burned out on civ.

    My health deal lasted a lot longer than expected. I ended up being sick for almost 2 and 1/2 months. All the time seems like it just went *poof*, gone. But now the last 2 weeks I've been healthy so it's time to get this thread going. I made a promise to finish it. Anyhow, enough sharing of my health history on the internet. :D
     
  2. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Glad to hear that this is still going. Even gladder to hear that your health has improved.
     
  3. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Is Civilization 3 bad for your health? Story on Eyewitless news at 11.... Seems like health problems have been pretty common of late. Glad yours has improved Ohniel. Hopefully you can finish this project now.
     
  4. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    Hmm, my doctors never did mention Civ as a potential cause. Maybe I should have alerted them? :lol:
     
  5. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    Location:
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    And the beat goes on, da dum de dum da...

    Here was situation last time I played, 2+ very long months ago.





    Let me re-iterate that my turnlogs will be very detailed for this game. I give some logic explanations that many people will be familiar with, but some won't. Perhaps the explanations will be a help to any newer players that wish to improve their early game expansion phase! I've also been closely recording my worker movements; pretty soon I'll have too many workers and it'll be confusing, so I'll stop logging their moves.

    2950 Worker1 starts forest chop near Lisbon

    2900 Vasco (Warrior) spots a Zulu scout. Make contact and find they are up Bronze Working and Warrior Code

    2850 Vasco will continue to scout approximately southeast until he can make his way back to the capital to help with military police duties

    2800 Purple Beef-eaters (hereafter PBE) makes Warrior --> Worker

    2750 Forest chop completed and worker1 starts a road. Lisbon is working a forest now, growth in 7 and granary finished in 6. This is perfect for two reasons: (1) If the granary finishes one turn or more before the city grows, the food box will start out half-filled and the next citizen will be created that much faster. If the granary completes on the same turn as the city grows, the food box empties and that slows city growth. And (2) working the forest is good because I don't want Lisbon to grow too large overall when it is operating as a 6 turn settler factory. Getting too large would force me to waste money on the luxury slider to keep the peace. As it is, I am forced to bump the lux slider to 10% now because Lisbon just grew to size 3.

    2650 A barbarian warrior is getting close to Lisbon. I had thought barbs were turned off for this game, but I must have forgotten. Zulu has learned The Wheel.

    2630 Lisbon MP warrior has to kill the native diplomat barbarian that is threatening our worker. The lux tax is temporarily raised as a result. Move worker1 toward coast to build a road toward the next projected city location. This will help the next city to be founded faster, an important tactic in the expansion phase.

    2590 PBE makes Worker2 --> Granary. I might run this city as a combo worker/warrior factory once the granary completes. It doesn't have enough Food Per Turn (fpt) under a Despotic government to make 2-turn workers. Move Worker2 to PBE's cow. Worker1 starts a road. Warrior MP goes back to Lisbon, lux tax is lowered to 10%, Science slider is raised to 90%, and writing is now due in 4 turns.

    2550 Worker2 starts irrigated the cow. Not really sure how irrigating a cow makes cities grow faster, but it seems to work...Micromanage Lisbon for more commerce by working a roaded grassland rather than a non-roaded BG. I don't need the extra shield so the commerce is more valuable.

    2510 Lisbon Granary --> Settler. Lisbon can now operate as a 6-turn settler factory for a while. A settler factory really helps a civilization to grow, as we shall see. Some ancient historian should have trademarked Settler Factory™. They would have made bank.

    2470 Turn Science slider down a bit with 1 turn left on writing, saves gold. Lux tax is bumped up for happiness. Treasury is at 9gp with -1gpt.

    2430 Learn Writing.




    I can of course trade Writing around for the current techs available—Warrior Code, Bronze Working, and The Wheel—but I refrain. I don't want to jeopardize the chance for a Republic sling. Research is now set to Code of Laws at max (70% currently possible), but with so little gold in the kitty, we are going to have a problem with max research soon.

    2390 Worker2 finishes cow irrigation, starts road. Micro Lisbon.

    2350 Lisbon grows to size 5

    2310 Exploring Vasco the Warrior goes back to Lisbon, lux tax was dropped a notch as a result. Worker1 finishes road, moves to silk.

    2270 Lisbon Settler --> Settler. The new settler and Vasco move toward coast along the road. Because that road was built, we will save two turns on getting a new city founded. Worker1 starts a forest chop, which will be given to the new city to hurry a curragh. Worker2 finishes road near PBE, moves E-E toward plains. The Iroquois nation has 2 workers for sale. I am sorely tempted but I don't want to trade Writing just yet and I have no money to buy the workers.

    2230 Settler moves into position to found a city. Worker2 starts a road. Vasco moves back toward Lisbon for MP duty. Netherlands just learned Masonry, but again we wait to trade.

    2190 Guimaraes is built and starts on a Curragh. The forest chop, due to complete in a couple of turns, will speed along the curragh production. Vasco is back on MP duty at Lisbon, dropping the happy tax down.

    2110 Adjust PBE for more food, less shields. Worker1 finishes chop, starts roading silk. Worker2 finishes road, starts irrigation. Treasury is bankrupt so dial down research to 70%, costing us 0gpt.

    2030 Lisbon Settler --> Settler. The other CxxC dots seem pretty equal in quality, so I move the new settler SW toward hill spot because current roads allow me to get there quickly. Send Vasco with him as the silks will get connected on the IBT and make Lisbon happy.

     

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  6. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Irrigation brings water to the cows, so they don't die of thirst. Hence they reproduce more and more animal food.
     
  7. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    Location:
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    Continuing on.

    1990 Guimar Curragh (chop-aided) --> Curragh. Change PBE tile configuration because irrigation finishes there next turn. Worker1 moves SW to grass for roading to a new city site. Curragh moves toward suicide jumping off point, no pun intended.

    1950 Lagos founded, starts work on Barracks. Worker2 moves SE onto the plains forest separating Lisbon and PBE

    1910 Worker2 starts a chop.

    1870 Lisbon City Watchman (Warrior) moves to protect the game tile from a barb. I don't want the game tile to get occupied, wreaking the Lisbon settler factory and maybe getting the tile pillaged. On the inter-turn, the Dutch built a city on MY incense just a little ways to the north. Dutch die first. :evil:

    1830 PBE Granary --> Warrior. Its too small to build workers efficiently just yet. Worker1 moves back to silks and starts a mine.

    1790 Lisbon Settler --> warrior (will be chop-aided). A chop is about to finish nearby and I need to use the shields for something useful. The barbs are getting really annoying, and I need more warriors to fend them off. Send the new settler unescorted north toward the horses, there shouldn't be any barbs there. Micro Lisbon for more commerce, less shields in anticipation of chop shields. On the IBT, the Dutch started the Pyramids.

    The treasury is depleted and not allowing me to run max science. With that in mind, I decide to risk trading Writing.
    Trade Iroquois Writing and get Masonry, the Wheel, and 80gp
    Trade Zulu Masonry and Writing, and get Warrior Code and 50gp
    Trade Dutch Writing and get 30 gp

    Both Zulu and Dutch must have been close to learning Writing because they would give almost nothing for it. I am still down Bronze Working but that is minor. With the new cash infusion, research gets bumped back to 80%, Code of Laws due in 4 turns.

    1750 Lisbon Warrior (chop-aided) --> Settler. New warrior attacks and flawlessly kills an approaching barb. Worker2 finishes the chop, starts road. Curragh starts suicide run toward the other continent.

    1725 Curragh is lost at sea on the IBT

    1700 PBE Warrior --> worker. Emerita is founded near horses and starts on a worker. Code of Laws is due in 1 turn with 155gp in bank and making 5gpt

    1675 Learn Code of Laws.




    Research set on Philosophy at max, due in 7. *cross fingers, hope we get Philo first for the free tech...*

    Worker2 finishes road, starts irrigation

    1650 PBE Worker --> Worker. New worker named Worker3 and moves toward plains between Emerita and PBE. Worker1 moves SW and starts a mine

    1625 Worker3 starts road

    1600 Lisbon Settler --> Settler
    PBE Worker --> Worker (named worker4)

    On the IBT, a wandering barb warrior suicides on my warrior that had been sent to kill it. Send this warrior out to explore more and kill barbs. The new settler moves toward the coast to a settling spot

    1575 Worker4 starts building a road between PBE and Lagos. Worker2 finishes irrigation, moves to game. Sagres founded near coast, starts work on barracks

    1550 Guimar Curragh --> Curragh. Worker2 moves to the BG just south of Lisbon. Worker3 moves to horses near Emerita. Philo is due next turn, hopefully I will be first to it!!

    1525 Success! :woohoo: Learn Philosophy and grab Republic for free.






    Revolt immediately on the IBT and draw a nice 4 turn anarchy. I could trade both Philosophy and Code of Laws, but the other civs on my continent only have Bronze Working and some gp for trade. How boring.

    Oh, and on the IBT, my curragh sunk two barb galleys. Take that, bloody pirates!

    I micro all cities for max food during the anarchy period. Worker2 and Worker3 start on roads. New research is set on Literature, aided by a few specialists from the anarchy. It's crazy, but no one has researched CB yet!

    1500 The Iroquois learn Mathematics, but I won't trade yet. A warrior kills a barbarian horse perched on a hill

    1475 Worker1 finishes mine, moves onto a silk forest. Worker4 finishes road, moves next to Lagos.

    1450 Worker1 starts to chop the forest, worker4 starts roading. Take care of some barbs, including dispersing a camp.

    1425 Become a Republic! Micro things, bumping lux tax to 20% for now. Change Emerita to barracks.

    Iroquois and Netherlands now know Map Making. After some consideration, I make the following trades.
    • Trade Dutch Code of Laws for Mathematics, Bronze Working, and 70gp.
    • Trade Iroquois Code of Laws and Philosophy for Map Making and Iron Working
    • Trade Zulu Mathematics for 35gp
    Lo and behold, Iron is nearby! ;)

    I don't mind trading around some techs because I will soon learn Literature as a monopoly tech and I also intend to kill all three civs on my landmass soon, far before they get to the Middle Ages.

    At this time, I also establish embassies with all three neighbors for around 100gp.

    Research is set to Lit at max possible (80%). My tentative science plan is Literature --> Currency and then maybe shut off research for a short while. We'll see.

    1400 PBE Worker5 --> Archer. The town needs to grow before it can become a 2-turn worker factory.

    Worker5 and Worker3 irrigate a plains together near Emerita. Worker3 hooked up the horses on the IBT. A warrior disperses a barbarian terrorist camp. Worker2 finishes road and starts a mine.

    1375 Curragh lost on suicide run. Hopefully galleys will do better

    1350 Workers 3 and 5 move to the horse tile near Emerita and start irrigation. Worker4 moves to grass near PBE and starts irrigation

    1325 Lisbon Settler --> Worker.

    Lisbon needs a few more tiles mined before it can be a 4-turn Settler Factory, so I'll put it on 2-turn workers for a couple of turns.

    Worker1 finishes silk forest chop and starts on a mine. The new settler moves across the river toward PBE and the Dutch

    1300 Learn Literature, set research to Currency at max. Workers 3 and 5 move to separate plains tiles near Emerita to road. Settler has movement, will be moved when I pick up game again. Time to dotmap first!




    So, dear readers, what do you think of
    (1) Where I should settle next
    (2) The research plan

    On the overview pic, the blue dots represent the locations that I think are most urgent to settle. The red dots are other, less urgent future city spots.
     

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  8. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    The upper left dot has the most access to food tiles, would make an excellent worker factory. Tech....Feudalism first for me, always, because its hard to get in trade and has high trade value.
     
  9. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I agree with Overseer on Feudalism. If you're going to go a-warring with the Dutch, having Maces before they get Swiss Mercs opens lots of doors.

    As for settling, I like the spots that you have circles as a "probable FP spot" for the settler, and the northernmost of those two blue dots for the site. Fresh water, riverside tiles and the shortest route to Amsterdam. Eventually, it will have access to sugar, as well. None of the other Dutch cities are large enough to put out enough military to be much of an issue once you get some swords and archers built. Take down Amsterdam and I think the Dutch will fold.
     
  10. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    Thanks for the input, guys. I'll post an update over the weekend.
     
  11. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    This game got shoved aside again due to some weekend distractions and a family emergency. I'll have an update in another day or two.
     
  12. Chamnix

    Chamnix Chasing Time

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    This is a space race game - the AI will always get Feudalism for you. The AI will almost never get Engineering on their own, but if you give it to them, then they may get Invention and Gunpowder before you complete Monotheism, Theology, Education, and Banking.
     
  13. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I agree with Chamnix (he does have some good HoF dates, doesn't he?). More territory via specialist farms or cities with courthouses and police stations may help you research faster say once in the industrial age. But, before then, it probably will work out better to prioritize your research path over taking their territory.
     
  14. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    The settler near PBE is moved toward the central sugars with a warrior in escort

    1275
    Lisbon --> Worker
    PBE Archer --> Worker

    New Worker6 moves NE-NE to mine a grass. Workers 3 and 5 road tiles. Settler moves toward sugars. Barb camp is dispersed.

    1250
    Lagos --> Barracks. Starts on a warrior.

    Worker4 moves to river plains near PBE. Worker2 moves to join Worker6.

    Settler moves into position near the sugars
    Trade Dutch Philosophy and get Horseback Riding in return

    1225
    Lisbon --> Worker
    PBE --> Worker

    At this point I'm going to stop recording worker moves because there are too many workers. Congrats to anyone who has taken the time thus far to read all the worker moves. ;)

    Coimbra is founded and starts work on a granary. It should make another nice worker factory, although it may need a courthouse first.

    1175
    Lisbon Worker --> Settler
    PBE Worker --> Worker

    IBT
    the Maya finish the Pyramids
    the Zulu finally get Ceremonial Burial. Go AI, go! :lol:

    1150
    Change Lisbon to a worker because I realize that once more I am going to be 1spt short of a 4 turner. Can't believe how I keep miscounting. I must be a little tired tonight. :crazyeye:

    1125
    Lisbon Worker --> Worker
    PBE worker --> Worker
    Lagos Warrior --> Warrior

    Turn down the research slider in anticipation of getting Currency next turn

    1100 Sagres Barracks --> Warrior

    Currency has been researched. Turn research to Construction, but set the slider at 0%. Although research on this landmass has been terribly slow, I'm hoping someone, anyone--or perhaps a civ on the other landmass--might get Construction for me. The fastest I can currently research it would be 17 turns, so it seems best to hold off for a few turns and save cash.

    IBT
    Dutch finish Mausoleum of Mausollos

    1075
    Lisbon Worker --> Settler. The four-turn settler factory is finally ready...
    PBE Worker --> Worker

    1050
    Guimar Galley --> Galley (will be chop-aided)

    1025
    PBE Worker --> Worker
    Emerit Barracks --> Warrior

    1000
    Lagos Warrior --> Warrior
    Sagres Warrior --> Warrior

    Netherlands has Construction!! The 0% research gambit paid off. We can trade Republic for Construction, but I'll hold off for the moment and get the audience's opinions.

    QSC Stats
    7 cities, 26 citizens
    15 workers
    8 warriors
    1 archer
    1 galley
    3 barracks
    2 granaries
    All AA techs except Construction and the Ceremonial Burial to Monarchy tech line
    3 contacts
    162 gp making 24gpt


    Empire in 1000BC. Sorry about the slightly blurry shot. I play on a 22 inch monitor, and transferring shots to these low-res web pages is a pain. I'm too tired to photochop right now to make the shot better...




    So, here we are at 1000BC. I'm debating a couple of plans. Either (a) build some warriors, continue to do 0% research for a few more turns, upgrade those warriors, and beat on the Dutch. Or (b) change my warrior builds to Libraries, and let the Dutch have a few more turns of peace, hoping they might help me out by researching more techs.

    At some point in the not-so-distant future, I am certainly going to kill the Dutch. They are in my way, and I can use their land more efficiently for research than they can. The question is simply when to kill them. If I wait, they will get stronger, but might help with some techs or build a good wonder. At the same time, they look rather lively right now and have a few settler pairs running around. Plus they just started building the Great Wall. :coffee::ar15:

    I think I favor building a medium-sized stack of swords and do a slow war on Dutch while I continue to REX. There is still a lot of unclaimed land to fill in. But I'm open to thoughts.
     

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  15. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    My from-the-hip thought: It's going to take them a while to finish the Great Wall, but I wouldn't relish the thought of facing Swiss Mercs + Great Wall with swords. Then again, I'm not sure they'll have enough gold to upgrade many of those spears to SMs, so this may not be a real issue.
     
  16. Chamnix

    Chamnix Chasing Time

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    Declare on whoever is north of the Dutch, and sign a military alliance against them with the Dutch. You can attack the Dutch after 20 turns or when they sign peace, and the war will be a lot easier.

    Are the Dutch providing you with incense and/or gems, or do you have your own sources?
     
  17. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    Sounds like a plan on the MA.

    I have no trades going with the Dutch, and they have all the native sources. Even more reason to get rid of them sooner rather than later.

    I'll continue building warriors and hold off on the Libraries for a while.
     
  18. Peebo

    Peebo Grand Poobah

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    I'll be following this. I used to always play with a CxxxxC strategy, building culture quickly in my cities to fill in the spaces, no other reason really than the fact that I liked having more space per city. But as I graduate to higher levels of playing I'm definitely seeing the benefits of tighter spacing sometimes, getting more cities built, and not worrying about buildings in the early game when military and settlers are essential. So, it will be interesting to see how this develops!
     
  19. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

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    I have some updates for this game but i won't have time to post them until next week...
     

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