TGW-Div 1.6 -- World War I

French collaps left Russia speachless. Never before have we witnessed such a crushing defeat, not even in our WW2 games during the Civ 2! :crazyeye:

Samsonov Corps attack Turkish car near Szeged and retreats with 1 HP. Car still yellow, but our A Div then kills that Car.

Baltic fleet cut Memel and Kaunas from the rest of the German Empire.

Kemal was shelled by few Russian guns.

Smolensk was rented to British for intalling AA gun production.
 
Well, I was surprised myself...! I had planned this blow right from turn 1: when investigating the tech tree before the start of the game, I realized that Chlorine gas with "lethal bombardment" and hit frequency 6 might be a killer in this slow-moving trench-like warfare. So I set some of my low-production towns to producing Teargas right from the beginning, while researching towards Chlorine gas. (I researched something else first, as I didn't want Chlorine too early. That would mess up the mass upgrade.) Well, you can imagine my disappointment, when I found out that due to a bug in the scenario the upgrade Teargas --> Chlorine did not work! (Thanks for fixing that, Tigran! :goodjob: )
Anyway, by the time I finished the tech, I had stock-piled 32 cans Teargas, 4 more Chlorines were produced the next turn. Spy missions showed that French cities were defended by around 10-13 divs, so I expected to be able to take 2-3 cities, among them hopefully Paris. (Again disappointment, when I realized, that the direct path to Paris was blocked by Neutral units "protecting" the Victory locations around Paris... :crazyeye:) But that I would be able to take 13 cities, was beyond my boldest dreams! :eek:

OK, I currently have two questions:
  • How does the counting for Victory locations work? I mean, the Neutrals must have had a reason for fortifying their units there... Do they get the points, even if the location is in somebody else's territory? (Well, deserves you right... That's what you get for signing a RoP with the Neutrals... :lol: ) I told them to leave now, and they did. (Probably still scared to death :D). But do I get the Victory points just from having the sites within my borders, or do I need to fortify a unit on them nevertheless?!
  • Can you please double check in the scenario, whether the upgrade path Armored Car --> A7V works as advertised in the civilopedia... :mischief:

Cheers, Lanzelot
 
Hi guys,

I'm still shocked but not surprised at this type of conquest. Back in the early days of Civ3 I do remember some of the players boasting about taking 5-8 cities in one turn. Lanzelot I believe you may have broken that record though! :)

Well I do know that in order to collect victory points from a victory location you must occupy the tile with a unit. The Neutrals never left France after our war in the beginning of the game and decided to occupy my victory locations for me. :mad:

Unfortunately I could not ask them to leave because I signed an ROP with them as part of the peace deal to stop the war and since I knew I would have my hands full with a planned offensive into German territory I did not want France to fight a two front war.

Now I don't have to worry about fighting a two front war. :crazyeye:
 
I think you get points for every turn you have your unit on VP location. One needs to move his units there from turn 1, I guess!

And no. Tank is upgradable to MKIV (British tree) but upgrade button is unchecked again! What a mess!
 
I think you get points for every turn you have your unit on VP location. One needs to move his units there from turn 1, I guess!

And no. Tank is upgradable to MKIV (British tree) but upgrade button is unchecked again! What a mess!

Oh well, I didn't bother to occupy my Victory locations so far... Looks like I wasted lots of points for all three nations...

And another "oh well", I guess I won't do an Armored Car mass upgrade then... ;) (Though it might be powerful as well...) How about the upgrade to Tank for the Ottomans and Austrians?

Thanks, Lanzelot
 
I am not even sure anyone BUT British can build tanks for that matter...
 
Guys,

Just an FYI. I'll probably be playing my turn later on this evening or sometime tomorrow. I'm a little overwhelmed with real life right now.

MoffJ
 
gps Lanzelot


Week 5, 1915

France:

Nothing to report. Liege was made into an independent country this week.


Britain:

Rotterdam made into independent country. British cavalry dies while charging Turkish MG near Gaza. German MG destroyed by Zeppelin fire outside Rotterdam. Zeppelins bomb Arras.


Week 6, 1915

Italy:

Marshall Rodolfo Graziani dies while trying to kill an Austrian Rifle R near Bolzano trenches. Counter battery fire had weakened the positions there.
 
Ottoman Empire:
French landing force at Gaza red-lined by light artillery. Two armored cars throw them back into the sea. A destroyer hurries by to sink the transport that brought the French units, and discovers another French sub! After light artillery from the coast damaged the surfaced sub, the destroyer runs it into the ground.

Ottoman Black Sea Fleet bombards Batum, redlining some unidentified ship in the docks and damaging two Inf R to 2/4. Artillery and armored cars capture silk resources at the end of the world.

Italian forces near Mount Sinai red-lined by light artillery. Armored cars then kill an Inf R and two cavalry divisions at the loss of one AC.

Light artillery shells British positions near Port Said, but hit mainly nothing. Enver Pascha then attacks an Indian Inf division and survives by a hair: 2/17!

Austria-Hungaria:
The Austrian people is much surprised that Szeged is still alive this week. The Russian monster army disappeared as mysteriously as it arrived. Everyone is still wondering what the Russians have been looking for? There aren't any tulips in Szeged?! Perhaps they were in want of a good bottle of Tokaya?

Austrian destroyer sinks Italian transport in the Adria.

After heavy bombardment, which red-lined almost all except 3 units, 4 Austrian Armies attack the Russian fortifications near Sibiu. Afterwards armored cars join the attack. A total of 14 Russian divisions are destroyed, an engineer taken PoW, at the loss of three armored cars.

Germany:
This week some mop-up operations take place in France. First heavy bombardment of Caens red-lines all 6 French divisions. A flamethrower and 5 Inf A then storm the place. A scouting cavalry then discovers Cherbourg to be deserted and claims the city for the German Empire. Another week in which the old Prussian Garde Cavalry shines in glory!

A German Inf R division then marches into deserted Verdun. (Generations to come still remember the battle of Verdun as a "walk in the park"...)
Calais is found deserted as well. It has been a long time, since German troops captured that city in the first week of the war. Now they have come back finally.
Inf R divisions then clean up three French cavalry divisions outside of Brussels.

11 rail-guns start the offensive on Lyons and shell Nivelle down to 9/20. 22 Zeppelins and 4 counter-batteries continue, hitting the occasional citizen and granary, but also taking off a couple of hitpoints of many units. Three newly produced chlorine gas kill three French divisions. Moltke kills another Inf R division and then Nivelle appears at the top of the stack at 1/20. Time for Hindenburg (23/23) to move in, and he defeats the last active French Army Corp. 5 more Armies, some even only at strength 12, move to Lyons and kill the last infantry divisions. Now Lyons is only defended by artillery. Do we have any 2-movement units left? Three more Inf Armies have to leave hospital in Berlin and clean up the last artillery nests in Lyons, until the city is finally ours!

Zeppelins bombard Russian units between Szeged and Crajova.
Light cruiser sinks unknown object while trying to leave the harbor of Memel.

Light cruiser sinks unknown object when scouting in the North Sea. British Highsea Fleet discovered and slightly shelled by German battleships.
 
The loss of Persian silk caused mass protests amoung the beautiful Russian women throuoght the Empire! As a result Russia was nearly shut down this turn -- very little tax was collected and very little units produced!

Special forces were sent from Transilvania to deal with the situation. After some barrage a Cossack dies trying to dispatch Turkish infantry on the hill near Baku. Turks get promoted to the Veteran status. Some more shelling and follow up attack ny A Div claims that hill back to Russia.

More forced sent to the hill south from that hill with another lonely Turkish Infantry there. This time A Div kills Turks from the first try!

More Turks were annihilated when underwater explosion punished one of the CAs who was shelling Batum last turn.

Baltic fleet cleaned more roads around memel this turn.
 
gps Lanzelot


Week 6, 1915

No action taken by the French however the British do some damage. They kill a Turkish Rifle near Gaza with Zeppelins. A Turkish Armored Car is also destroyed there by Zeppelins.


Week 7, 1915

Mysterious explosions rock two Turkish CAs south of Adalia. All of Italy braces for what must come next. Without the rubber from France Italy is quite defenseless now. I'm almost tempted to call this game quits as certainly the balance of power is shifted heavily in the Central Powers favor. If Italy is eliminated from the game that leaves only Britain and Russia left to face the enemy.

Tigranes what do you think? Has Lanzelot captured victory where we have no hope of regaining the lead?
 
I am very tempted to say yes -- especially knowing Lanzelot's skills and mas bombing style :) Russia can offer nothing against Zepps. Russia is ready for Berlin conference ;)
 
History has been changed?
 
Look's like yes, history has been changed. But not within the history of past PBEM games based on this scenario -- all the TGW PBEM games I know about ended in early 1915 by Central's victory.
 
The Mittelmächte are willing to start peace negotiations as well. (And we'll promise to not let this become a second Treaty of Versailles, the "peace to end all peace"...! Justice shall be done to our honorable foes.)

Interesting to hear that other TGW PBEMs also ended with an early central power victory. At the beginning of this game I thought it would be a long-drawn open-ended battle. Could be that it favors Germany a bit, because of its very good Inf A and Artillery units, but I thought that French and British units and production capabilities should be on a similar level. And Russia is quite unbeatable for a long time, because of its huge numbers. (I was able to make some progress against Russia initially, because I caught Tigranes off guard at one point, but after that it was virtually impossible to make any further gains. I think in this scenario progress against Russia can be made only after the Western Allies are defeated and Germany can concentrate 100% of its forces and slowly grind down the huge numbers, city by city. And only after the invention of tanks.)
The end came quite surprising to me as well. Clearly the game-breaker was the teargas mass-upgrade. Don't know if there is any way to counter this? Probably only if you know it in advance and start mass-drafting like the Russians and protect every border town with 30 conscripts?!

But in any case, I don't think the chlorine gas was the only factor in the Germans getting the advantage. If you ask me to point out the most decisive factors of this game, I would list the following:

  • I think you neglected mining and rail-roading. When I conquered France two turns ago, I noticed that most tiles are still irrigated and that the French cities of size 30 were making around 50-60 shields per turn. In contrast I build a large number of workers in the first few weeks of the war (relying on my initial forces to carry me through the first weeks) and then mined and railed virtually every tile, starting with the important cities and then working towards the smaller ones. (Most of my playing time went into this, figuring out, which city needs a few more shields here and there in order to produce something a turn faster.) In the end my size 30 cities were making 110-130 shields per turn, enough to produce an Inf A or a Zeppelin every turn or an Artillery in two turns.
  • You did not find an efficient way to make use of your Army Corps. (Which became increasingly more difficult, after I had gained a majority of Armies, because then any attack you would try with your Armies would run into the risk of loosing these Armies in the counter attack. Again the mining and rail-roading plays a role here: Berlin was the first town to be "finished", so from quite early on it was able to produce a new Army every 4 turns. I think that even London and Paris combined were not able to counter-balance this Army output.)
  • It seems you did not build a sufficient number of heavy artillery early on?!
  • Towards the end, Austria and the Osman Empire became "useful" as well, because they were able to produce Armored Car Armies. (Both countries had lost thousands of gold trying to steal tech from Germany, but I think 2 times I was successful, so finally the Ottomans were able to build Armored Cars. Italy and Russia on the other hand did not have any efficient units to fill into Armies. (The two annoying "bugs" that Russia's minor wonders all were in Belgrad, and that the wonder that was supposed to produce the "Elite Guards" did not work, played a role here as well.)

Some of these imbalances can easily be fixed, and I see that in your other TGW-based PBEM you have already addressed a lot of them. I would suggest one more change: the game should start already fully mined & railed, so that it is unnecessary for the players to spend hours in worker micro-management. Workers & combat engineers should be necessary only for fortifications and for repairing/constructing rail connections to the front.

I would like to try WW I again, perhaps from the Allied/Russian side, but to be honest: for now I need a break... More than 1-2 turns in such a time-consuming scenario is not possible for me...
 
Lanzelot, you are a worthy opponent and I really enjoyed playing against you. I learned a lot about myself and your strategies.

I agree with the need to mine and railroad early. It was a big mistake that I did not take into account until only too late. That is the big reason why my artillery and corps force was small and ineffective.

Another mistake I think I made playing as the French was not using their Mediterranean fleet effectively early on. I could have really hurt the Ottomans by bombing their infrastructure similar to what happened to me in the other game we're playing.

I would love to play with or against you again some time but let's take a short break for now. ;)
 
I would like to officially congratulate Lanzelot with the victory and tell that I enjoyed playing against him all this time. It might sound strange, but I enjoy playing defense in any tough game and I was presented with that opportunity. If any of you guys ever played Red Front scenario from Civ 2 -- you can understand the feeling.

With all the tribute given to the Lanzelot's skills I would like to state my personal opinion: in general one cannot simply convert a scenario meant to be played against AI into the PBEM game and claim that the game is still balanced. My ultimate aim is to design an adaptation that will give all the players 4 years of bloody combat and a feeling of attrrition.

Anyways, well done, Lanzelot! Glückwünsche! :goodjob:
 
Thanks a lot Tigranes and Moff! I enjoyed that game a lot as well (even though it was hard work sometimes...), it was a real challenge. A special thanks for the extra-ordinary fair play from both of you! :goodjob:

I'll follow your efforts in creating a more balanced MP version of this scenario over in the other thread. Perhaps in a couple of months (after I've finished some of my other current PBEMs...) we can repeat this experiment!

Lanzelot
 
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