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The All Leaders Challenge Game Bullpen

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sisiutil, Apr 12, 2007.

  1. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

    Joined:
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    The idea of this thread came about as a place to provide links to the previous ALC game threads, and that's what you'll find in this first post. My board signature was becoming rather cluttered with them, so it's easier to just move them to a thread of their own. And this way I get to include a little extra reference information for the train-spotters out there. ;)

    However, that's not much of a discussion thread, is it? So besides offering links to the old ALC games, I thought this thread could also be a place to discuss the ALC series in general--a place to discuss things that are not directly related to the game currently in progress and would therefore be off-topic. Things like--Should the games move up to the next difficulty level? Which leader should be next? Should the games start using the Better AI mod? How come Sisiutil is so intelligent, witty and erudite, and how can I be more like him?

    Ahem. :mischief: :blush:

    And so forth. Anything related to the ALCs goes!

    But first, without further ado, here are the links to the previous games. If anyone wants the saved game files from these games, just PM me with your e-mail address.

    Game 1: Aztec/Montezuma (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 15232)
    Game 2: China/Mao Zedong (Prince Level; Space Victory; Score: 14668)
    Game 3: China/Qin Shi Huang (Prince Level; Space Victory; Score: 21247)
    Game 4: Egypt/Hatshepsut (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 44777)
    Game 5: England/Victoria (Prince Level; Cultural Victory; Score: 24409) Feature: Late-game cultural win
    Game 6: France/Louis XIV (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 21695)
    Game 7: Germany/Frederick the Great (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 35418) Features: Pyramids gambit, Specialist Economy
    Game 8: Greece/Alexander the Great (Prince Level; Conquest Victory; Score: 21194) Feature: Hybrid Economy
    Game 9: Inca/Huayna Capac (Monarch Level; Diplomatic Victory; Score: 37721) Features: First Monarch Level ALC, Isolated Start
    Game 10: India/Asoka (Monarch Level, Warlords; Space Victory; Score: 37790) Feature: First Warlords ALC
    Game 11: Carthage/Hannibal (Monarch Level, Warlords; Space Victory; Score: 22718) Feature: Internet Project
    Game 12: Japan/Tokugawa (Monarch Level, Warlords; Domination Victory; Score: 75824)
    Game 13: Mali/Mansa Musa (Monarch Level, Warlords; Space Victory; Score: 37247)
    Game 14: Mongolia/Kublai Khan (Monarch Level, Warlords; Domination Victory; Score: 91103) Feature: Great Merchant Economy
    Game 15: Ottoman/Mehmed II (Monarch Level, Warlords; Loss; Score: 2657) Feature: Isolated Start
    Game 16: Persia/Cyrus (Monarch Level, Warlords; Domination Victory; Score: 76759)
    Game 17: Russia/Peter (Monarch Level, Warlords; Loss)
    Game 17, Take 2: Russia/Peter (Monarch Level, Beyond the Sword; Space Victory; Score: 38754) First Beyond the Sword ALC
    Game 18: Spain/Isabella (Monarch Level, Beyond the Sword; Diplomatic Victory; Score: 66550) Feature: Apostolic Palace early religious diplomatic victory
    Game 18, Take 2: Spain/Isabella (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 48052) Feature: First Emperor Level ALC
    Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Space Victory; Score: 39919)
    Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 102108) Feature: Early Astronomy Gambit
    Game 21: Zulus/Shaka (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword); Domination Victory; Score: 123429) Features: Aggressive AI, No Tech Brokering, No Goody Huts
    Game 22: Arabs/Saladin (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword); Loss
    Game 22, Take 2: Arabs/Saladin (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 108819)
    Game 23: America/Lincoln (Immortal Level, Beyond the Sword; Space Race Victory; Score: 50980) Feature: First Immortal Level ALC
    Game 24: Babylon/Hammurabi (Immortal Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 135666)
    Game 25: Celts/Boudica (Abandoned)
    Game 25: Celts/Boudica, Take 2 (Also Abandoned)

    The ALCs: The Next Generation

    Game 26: Dutch/Willem van Oranje, Played by Lord Parkin
    Game 27: England/Churchill, Played by DMOC
    Game 28: Ethiopia/Zara Yaqob, Played by Benginal
    Game 29: France/De Gaulle, Played by Benginal
    Game 30: Germany/Bismarck, Played by Benginal
    Game 31: Greek/Pericles, Played by Benginal
    Game 32: HRE/Charlemagne, Played by Benginal
    Game 32: Korea/Wang Kon, Played by Benginal



     

    Attached Files:

  2. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

    Joined:
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    On a related note, here is a list of anticipated future ALC games, in order. Since I've now retired and others are playing the games, I will allow those brave volunteers to decide whether to follow this schedule or not.

    Game 34: Khmer/Suryavarman
    Game 35: India/Mahatma Gandhi
    Game 36: Mongolia/Genghis Khan
    Game 37: Native American/ Sitting Bull
    Game 38: Ottomans/ Suleiman
    Game 39: Portugal/D. Joao II
    Game 40: Rome/Augustus Caesar
    Game 41: Russia/Stalin
    Game 42: America/Roosevelt
    Game 43: Byzantine/ Justinian I
    Game 44: Celts/Brennus
    Game 45: Egypt/Ramesses
    Game 46: England/Elizabeth
    Game 47: French/Napoleon
    Game 48: Maya/Pacal II
    Game 49: Persia/Darius
    Game 50: Rome/Julius Caesar
    Game 51: Russia/Catherine
    Game 52: America/George Washington
     
  3. gallego

    gallego Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Are we ever going to see a game with aggressive AI and raging barbarians? The gameplay just seems more realistic and hectic with those options, and I feel like overly calculated, super efficient starts are a little bit of a misinterpretation of the game; a tribe of settlers should first be worried about protection, not getting out a warrior, worker, etc. on the exact right turn in order to build the Oracle at the exact right moment a thousand years later, etc. The need for protection first is more true to the concept of the game, I think.
     
  4. scy12

    scy12 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Enough with the Warmongers. How can you select Catherine as last , how ?
     
  5. marowaker

    marowaker Chieftain

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    Good luck trying 36 games before CivV comes out. I don't see how you are going to do it though:confused: seeing as you are only up to ALC 15 and the 2nd expansion pack of the game is about to be released. If you want to try and play all of them, speeding up could be an option?

    Anyway,
    I have no idea :confused: Maybe start my own ALC series :lol:
     
  6. Steppin' Razor

    Steppin' Razor Chieftain

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    Just a quick word of thanks, this series has been a great help.
     
  7. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    Interesting suggestion! In many ways, I think I like this idea better than moving up to the next difficulty level. Lately people have been dissuading me from moving up to Emperor as it usually entails more restrictive, tried-and-true strategies rather than allowing for some of the wild-a** gambits I've tried in a few of these games. Altering the game settings might be a good alternative to Emperor level.
    Well, Cathy is one of the most popular of the Civ leaders (as your post helps to show), and I wanted to focus the ALC series on leaders (a) who are less popular and (b) that I myself have not used. This is also why my own personal favourite leaders (Ramesses, Elizabeth, and both Caesars) are down near the bottom of the list.

    However, I'll consider your request. I myself don't play as Catherine very often anymore, not since Warlords changed her from Financial :) to Imperialistic :( . What about everybody else?
    I'm paddling as fast as I can! :lol:

    Believe me, I know I might not ever get there. (Another reason I've left my personal favourite leaders, as whom I play most of my off-line games, to the end of the list; no big if they're not featured in an ALC.) But with a provisional schedule in place, you folks can do your best to persuade me that a certain leader is more deserving of an ALC game and should move up. Someone PM'd me recently, for example, requesting that I play as Brennus in the next game.

    I'm not opposed to playing as certain leaders out of order--Hannibal, for example. It's a game, it's about fun, so whoever looks like they might be the most fun to try next--wins! And hopefully I will too. :D
     
  8. axident

    axident Chieftain

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    There are emperor and immortal challenge threads that put more early barb pressure on the human player, if that's your thing. I wouldn't mind the ALC sticking to Monarch, but yeah a little raging barbs or a Quick or Normal game here or there, or whatever, would keep things fresh. Emperor+ also lessens the likelihood of seeing more things like the Great Merchant Economy, too, which isn't necessarily a good thing.
     
  9. vormuir

    vormuir Chieftain

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    I like the idea of changing the settings instead of advancing to Emperor.

    One thing we haven't seen: different map types (beyond Continents and Fractal, that is). How about some games on Small or Large maps, or on Highlands, or in an Ice Age? Nobody seems to use those variants much, so it might be interesting to see.


    Waldo
     
  10. Sjaramei

    Sjaramei Chieftain

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    Do it when you hit these leaders :D
    And if people are worried about gambits like GME and other wierd things, you could try to do the warmongering leaders at emperor level since that will give you more of a challenge in war. (last game went a little bit too fast :)) Keep monarch for peaceful wierd stuff :)
     
  11. martin031

    martin031 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
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    What are your experiences with Better AI. I have been using it, but the AI seems to docile, even though they mix their stacks better and seem smarter. (And this is with agg option checked)

    I wouldn't mind seeing you start with checking Agressive AI first.
     
  12. Rancid Sushi

    Rancid Sushi Last year's catch

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    I agree, you should prioritize unpopular leaders. I've read every single ALC so far and I've learned a lot, but I still can't win before 1900AD (I need to get 1750 before I move to from Noble to Prince). Don't forget about your noob readers. Even though the experts help you win your games, the noobs benefit the most from them. I've improved a lot because of the ALCs. Catherine is a good choice for a couple reasons: both her traits and her UU have been nerfed. It will be good to see how cope with that. You might also have a hard time with unhealthiness in your capital city. Catherine has a way of getting around.:D
     
  13. TRJS

    TRJS Chieftain

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    I would be interested in seeing an ALC on a HUGE map. Just to see more details on war strategy in the late game.

    Currently late game tends to be finishing of space race/diplomatic victory and the military plays little or no role.
     
  14. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    I would like to see a move to emproer sometime soon since you clearly is easily mastering monarch now. It will still be educational as there is still plenty of room to play around if your good enough(as you seem to be).
     
  15. EEE_BOY

    EEE_BOY Chieftain

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    i think the warlord expansion offers an option to prevent single player from editing the map and random seeds on reload. this is done by ticking those two options in the custom window. i usually did frequent reload when playing civ :blush: so these two options help me to play 'honestly'. i didn't mean that those ALC's or EMC's maps are edited, but ticking those two options before start convince people who read the thread that the game is played in a normal way. anyway, those threads are so great that i keep reading again and again.:goodjob:
     
  16. lukep

    lukep Chieftain

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    no mods please.

    that would means mac players cannot read your saves, if the mod is not ported (which afaik is the case of better AI).

    for increased challenge, large maps, aggressive AI would be my choice.

    You can also pick up the worst opponents, like all financials when you are not, or starting with assured monty, alexander, louis, etc...


    Oh, and yes, i use a mac (or rather severals ;) )
     
  17. aelf

    aelf Noctis Lucis Caelum

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    This is a great idea. Mind if I use it too? I hate complicated sigs.

    I believe you could open the saves anytime and check the game settings. I think both the ALCs and the EMCs/Immortal Challenges do not have the random seed option (with which each battle would give a different outcome when reloaded) checked as it is. I haven't heard of any game option that prevents editing of the map. Anyway, I think doing so takes away the fun and the suspense.
     
  18. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Sisiutil, do you have any idea where to put the (sort off) confirmed civs of BTS x-pack? I'm saying that because my gut feeling says the Portuguese leader will be a difficult one to handle ( based on the civ III ... no trait sinergy, a less than useful UU ... in warlord terms, a Brennus with Expansive/ Creative). Maybe Prince Henry ( I would prefer the King Jonh II ( a guy that putted Isabella of Spain in a diplomatic negotiation (resulting in sharing the world) deserves to be on Civ4 :lol: ) , but outside Portugal most people don't know him) can be a top priority.
     
  19. Scaphism

    Scaphism Boondoggle

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    I'm really looking forward to seeing you play Shaka, get an early GG and make a Medic 3 + Morale + Mobility Impi. I don't know how useful having all that extra movement is, but it's just fun.
     
  20. Hero

    Hero NPC

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    First, thanks Sisiutil for your efforts. I have learned alot from the ALC games. I play Prince so I vote for no move to Emperor and no mods, but Aggresssive AIs or Raging Barbs could be entertaining. I'd like to mention something that relates to the current ALC game. I would like to see fewer "I checked out the map. See spoiler below" or "I played to xxxx AD. See spoiler below" posts. They don't really add anything to the discussion. Perhaps people could be encouraged to start their own "ALC Game XX Spoiler Thread"s or something.
     
  21. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    This is one of the main reasons I've thus far resisted moving up to the next level; the noobs are most vocal about keeping the ALCs at a difficulty level so they're still relevant to those on Noble and Prince and below. I get the feeling that the majority of Civ players are mid-level players. The higher levels seem to take a level of dedication that not many people can bring to the game.
     
  22. Snaaty

    Snaaty Chieftain

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    I wouldn´t move up in difficulty... ...rather play out all leaders according to their traits and try to use their special units (what makes the game already harder I think).

    Ranging barbs and agressive AI´s are also options I would like to see;)
     
  23. LuckyAC

    LuckyAC Immortal

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    I don't think you win particularly faster on lower levels. The world tech pace is faster, so yours will be through trading, so you'll win cultural, space and diplomatic perhaps faster. My first Warlords space win on Monarch was in 1948, then my very next game I had a space win on Emperor in 1898. That is to say, speed of victory should not be a deterrent from going to the next level, if you can handle it.
     
  24. Softnum

    Softnum Chieftain

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    You should move up a level and do all the leaders again once you get done with them all at monarch.
     
  25. PublicEnemy

    PublicEnemy Chieftain

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    Yeah, go through all of them (including the new expansion) at Emperor, shouldn't take too long. :lol:
     
  26. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    I think if I tried that I'd get lapped by Civilization VI as well as V!
     
  27. ratrangerm

    ratrangerm Chieftain

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    I wouldn't move up a level. Trying options such as Aggressive AI and Raging Barbarians would be the way to go.

    Another option might be to limit games going to Emperor for civs in which you intend to flex your military might as soon as you can. From what I can recall from past ALCs, particularly the most recent ones, it's been the military route victories that have been pulled off the quickest. So moving to Emperor for those alone (I believe Napoleon would be the next civ with the Aggressive trait) would be fine, but stick to Monarch for others.

    And I do like what somebody suggested about playing against speifics civs. Nothing wrong with picking your opponents, especially if you want to find a way to make things interesting. Imagine, for example, a game in which you have Monty, Izzy, Mehmed and Saladin all as opponents, along with whoever else happens to be a religious nut.
     
  28. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    I like the Emperor for military games idea; that could come up a lot sooner than Napoleon. Ragnar and Shaka are both warming up on the sidelines; I will definitely consider moving those games up to Emperor, especially Rangar, who also has the powerful Financial trait, a UB that gives his naval units extra reach, and a UU that's an upgrade to one of the best units in the game. I think Raggy could handle Emperor, don't you?

    I'm not so sure about choosing my opponents. I'll consider it, though I'll need more convincing. Part of the enjoyment of Civ for me is the process of discovery. They game is addictive and replayable because it's different everytime, and part of the fun is discovering how it's different this time. The mysteries of what is out there (the map) and who is out there (the opponents) are part of the thrill. Someone beat me to Music's free GA! Someone is going wonder-crazy! Who could it be?

    Now... if someone else was to set up the game in this way and hand it off to me, that might achieve what you're after while still leaving myself and everyone else in suspense. ;) It's also a way of making sure we don't get an isolated start. Sounds like fun, frankly, so long as you guys aren't too nasty to poor ol' Uncle Sisiutil. :please: (Like, say, stuffing me on a rock with Monty, Shaka, and Tokugawa.) It would require some coordination that would be out of my hands, however.
     
  29. Kietharr

    Kietharr Chieftain

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    I suggest waiting till Ragnar or Shaka to move up to emporor. Both of them are leaders good for both conquest and economy (Rag is financial, shaka has a half courthouse effect on his barracks). Shaka is my personal favorite, and I think watching you play him on monarch would be a bit dull if I can manage 1600AD dominations with him on prince, even with my noobishness and ineptitude running a stable SE.
     
  30. ordinaryguy

    ordinaryguy Back to Civ!

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    Can you do more diplomatic and cultural victories? There is only one of each so far.
     

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