The Ancient Mediterranean MOD (TAM)
- Thread starter thamis
- Start date
i just downloaded this yesterday and had a few gos on my day off. my impressions so far...
it's really ambitious. so ambitious, in fact, that you don't want to miss out the minoans, or the queen of sheba! but you have to, or else each turn takes as long as the download time (and i'm on dial-up!).
so, i cut it down to 16 civs (trying to get a decent map spread). after a number of really ugly run-ins with barbarians (so bad so early that i started over! coward, i know...) i settled on the lydians.
like my SUPER SLOW 32 CIV game with the minoans, i ended up being ridiculously... well, as rich as Kriosis. i think by the time that i had the thing law, and could use cash to rush builds, i had 7000 gold! this seems excessive. essentially, that translated into an instant army capable of blowing rival civs out of the water. much as i loved the sight of all those horeseman charging through the phoenicians like butter, i felt like it was unfair...
i do like the 60% spending cap, but i wish that the result wasn't so much savings. and with all those civs, trading is BIG business. maybe if some of the early techs couldn't be traded, to curb the startling diplomacy. dunno. or just make them more expensive... but that actually leads to my next point.
it's a bit slow in general play. if i'm going to wait through all that processing, it would be nice to have my turns something a bit more fulfilling. the added expense of all the units creates small empires, which is good, given the alternative, but the result is a bit dull in terms of game play; i.e. who wants to play for 3 hours and have a few cities, and the bare beginnings of an army, or a road network!
i'll say some nice things now, as there are lots of nice things to say. i really like the painterly map (except for the straits of messina!). all the animations i have seen are decent to very good. there's obviously been a mountain of research into this. speaking of mountains, the prohibitions about movement are good. they make terrain much more of a factor.
as someone trying to crawl through an infinitely less ambitious mod, i appreciate all the attention to balance.
i feel like i can see what you're going after, and it's really this very worthwhile thing, yet seems possibly out of reach. how DO you get 32 civs to move quickly?
hope i haven't sounded too discouraging. just being able to play the minoans for a few hours was really great.
thanks!
it's really ambitious. so ambitious, in fact, that you don't want to miss out the minoans, or the queen of sheba! but you have to, or else each turn takes as long as the download time (and i'm on dial-up!).
so, i cut it down to 16 civs (trying to get a decent map spread). after a number of really ugly run-ins with barbarians (so bad so early that i started over! coward, i know...) i settled on the lydians.
like my SUPER SLOW 32 CIV game with the minoans, i ended up being ridiculously... well, as rich as Kriosis. i think by the time that i had the thing law, and could use cash to rush builds, i had 7000 gold! this seems excessive. essentially, that translated into an instant army capable of blowing rival civs out of the water. much as i loved the sight of all those horeseman charging through the phoenicians like butter, i felt like it was unfair...
i do like the 60% spending cap, but i wish that the result wasn't so much savings. and with all those civs, trading is BIG business. maybe if some of the early techs couldn't be traded, to curb the startling diplomacy. dunno. or just make them more expensive... but that actually leads to my next point.
it's a bit slow in general play. if i'm going to wait through all that processing, it would be nice to have my turns something a bit more fulfilling. the added expense of all the units creates small empires, which is good, given the alternative, but the result is a bit dull in terms of game play; i.e. who wants to play for 3 hours and have a few cities, and the bare beginnings of an army, or a road network!
i'll say some nice things now, as there are lots of nice things to say. i really like the painterly map (except for the straits of messina!). all the animations i have seen are decent to very good. there's obviously been a mountain of research into this. speaking of mountains, the prohibitions about movement are good. they make terrain much more of a factor.
as someone trying to crawl through an infinitely less ambitious mod, i appreciate all the attention to balance.
i feel like i can see what you're going after, and it's really this very worthwhile thing, yet seems possibly out of reach. how DO you get 32 civs to move quickly?
hope i haven't sounded too discouraging. just being able to play the minoans for a few hours was really great.
thanks!
idleautarch
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2004
- Messages
- 17
That's actually fairly accurate to the history, as far as Carthage, Rome and the continental Grecians go. They accumulated huge supplies of gold, silver, ivory etc although, historically speaking, most of it ended up in temples rather than state coffers.
It also seems that the Persians were the wealthiest, money-wise. When Alexander plundered a couple of their cities he ended up with more money than he had between Macedon and Greece.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Wonderful mod, man. But it seems to have script problems.
My game's save with an extra word, like Caesar of the Romans, Macedonia, 7000 BC.SAV
Is there a fix for this?
My game's save with an extra word, like Caesar of the Romans, Macedonia, 7000 BC.SAV
Is there a fix for this?
I'm going thru the civilopedia.txt file (TAM 2.3) trying to make minor corrections to reflect the editor settings. Two questions:
Are the Pyramids actually suppose to be a small wonder? Small wonders cannot provide buildings in every city and therefore they do nothing (according to the editor.)
Can small wonders initiate a GA? If not, i'll remove the references.
Are the Pyramids actually suppose to be a small wonder? Small wonders cannot provide buildings in every city and therefore they do nothing (according to the editor.)
Can small wonders initiate a GA? If not, i'll remove the references.
thamis
King of Kish
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,583
Isca: I know it's super slow, but it's super slow in normal civilization with 32 civs, too. I recommend you play on the Fertile Crescent map with all civs, on regicide. That way you can actually bear the wait at the end of turns.
Regarding money: All civs get a ****load of money. And the Lydians get 5% more.
Amenhotep: There are no script problems, as there are no scripts in Civ3. Whatever it is, it's not my fault.
Watorrey: Yes, the Pyramids are a small wonder that only works if you have Theocracy. And they do work.
Regarding money: All civs get a ****load of money. And the Lydians get 5% more.
Amenhotep: There are no script problems, as there are no scripts in Civ3. Whatever it is, it's not my fault.
Watorrey: Yes, the Pyramids are a small wonder that only works if you have Theocracy. And they do work.
I'll have to take your word for it since i doubt i will ever try out Theocracy. Maybe i'll run across something else in the editor that let's me see why it works.
Here's an initial civilopedia.txt file along with a log of which entries i changed. All i got done so far was the buildings and a couple concepts. The only changes i made were to make the effects read according to what the editor says it does. The idea being that i never messed with these files before and i want to start slow.
Note this is for TAM 2.3 on C3C 1.22
If anyone wants to try it out, make sure you backup the original TAM civilopedia.txt file first.
Here's an initial civilopedia.txt file along with a log of which entries i changed. All i got done so far was the buildings and a couple concepts. The only changes i made were to make the effects read according to what the editor says it does. The idea being that i never messed with these files before and i want to start slow.
Note this is for TAM 2.3 on C3C 1.22
If anyone wants to try it out, make sure you backup the original TAM civilopedia.txt file first.
how do I build cities with colonist? when press "b" it makes a colony instead and there is no worker button, I cant build settlers anymore and it says in pedia and editor that the colonist do settler and worker tasks.
*EDIT* ever tried founding city in desert
*EDIT* ever tried founding city in desert
Justus II
General Staff
Also, what terrain are you in? IIRC, there are some terrain types that will allow a colony, but don't allow cities, that might be the problem.
Justus II
General Staff
I am working on an updated version of the TAM-Stats Excel file, which will hopefully summarize all of the various editor settings for Terrain, Governments, Civs, Improvements and Units. (Actually more than an update, I did the last one for version 1.3, over a year ago). Anyway, I have all but the Units and Civ-Specific abilities sections done, and may do a tech tree as well, if I have time. I will also try to somehow export it into Word for those without Excel.
I've been playing a game as Rome, on Emporer, and having a blast, although I think some parts may be a little too powerful (Especially amphibious Compound Bowmen, they're like Ancient Age Bezerks). I'll have to play a few more games, with different races and try a higher difficulty, to try and get a better feel for it.
I've been playing a game as Rome, on Emporer, and having a blast, although I think some parts may be a little too powerful (Especially amphibious Compound Bowmen, they're like Ancient Age Bezerks). I'll have to play a few more games, with different races and try a higher difficulty, to try and get a better feel for it.
Here's a civilopedia.txt file for TAM 2.3 and C3C 1.22 and a notes file.
I made alot more progress and understand how it works now... i think.
I still need to finish the concepts, civs, & advances.
Summary:
Changed many entries for concepts, buildings, and units to agree with editor settings.
Added a couple missing unit entries.
Fixed some typos causing bad links.
Removed a couple duplicate entries that were causing confusion.
Added mention of ability to start golden age to those units that can.
Added mention of each unit that uses the same entry.
Removed the #DESC_ for some entries that didn't actually have a description or had one that was irrelevant.
Removed references to small wonders initiating a golden age for certain traits.
Added civ traits to city improvement effects.
Questions/comments/suggestions are more than welcome.
For anyone that knows the answer, i have a few items of interest i would like feedback on:
Heavy Infantry entry has the enslave flag but no unit selected as an enslave result.
Phoenician Galley, Trireme, & War Galley have no civ selected as 'available to'.
Babylon has no golden age unit, 14 civs have 1, Dacia has 3, the rest have 2.
I made alot more progress and understand how it works now... i think.
I still need to finish the concepts, civs, & advances.
Summary:
Changed many entries for concepts, buildings, and units to agree with editor settings.
Added a couple missing unit entries.
Fixed some typos causing bad links.
Removed a couple duplicate entries that were causing confusion.
Added mention of ability to start golden age to those units that can.
Added mention of each unit that uses the same entry.
Removed the #DESC_ for some entries that didn't actually have a description or had one that was irrelevant.
Removed references to small wonders initiating a golden age for certain traits.
Added civ traits to city improvement effects.
Questions/comments/suggestions are more than welcome.
For anyone that knows the answer, i have a few items of interest i would like feedback on:
Heavy Infantry entry has the enslave flag but no unit selected as an enslave result.
Phoenician Galley, Trireme, & War Galley have no civ selected as 'available to'.
Babylon has no golden age unit, 14 civs have 1, Dacia has 3, the rest have 2.
Justus II
General Staff
Great work, Watorrey! In going through the editor, I've also noticed some oddities, when I finish my Unit Tree especially, I have some questions, I assume it's from changes that were made to units and UUs. I also noticed that no wonders have either the Agricultural or Seafaring trait, I was going to work up a list of some proposed traits for the great wonders.
I don't think traits on Small Wonders matter one way or another, but on Improvements, does the trait affect the cost? For example, Granaries have the Expansionist trait, do they then get them for half cost? I'll have to test that out. Hopefully I will have a copy of my Stats sheet ready by tomorrow, so others can take a look at it as well.
I don't think traits on Small Wonders matter one way or another, but on Improvements, does the trait affect the cost? For example, Granaries have the Expansionist trait, do they then get them for half cost? I'll have to test that out. Hopefully I will have a copy of my Stats sheet ready by tomorrow, so others can take a look at it as well.
Thanks
Mind you, I am not changing ANY editor settings, just making the civilopedia agree with what is there.
I suspect there may have been import problems for a few items and then there are the different versions of C3C to contend with. I'm thinking the MOD plays as meant to on PTW and C3C breaks it. The major differences would be AI armies and less buggy barbs. The barbs aren't even dangerous for the human if you know how they work.
The only standard traits that get cheaper improvements are religious & scientific. That's why i added the info to the effects section. Agricultural & Seafaring get cheaper improvements but no improvements have those traits in TAM. A run thru as an agricultural civ would decide if cheaper aqueducts (for example) are hard coded or not.
I started but never finished a Fertile Cresent game as the Minoans and am presently playing the main TAM map as Rome on monarch level. In both games so far, Babylon is the AI tech leader and the Great library only works if i help the other civs keep up. So i end up researching most things on my own anyway.
Has the AI used an amphibious attack on you? I've had one so far.
Mind you, I am not changing ANY editor settings, just making the civilopedia agree with what is there.
I suspect there may have been import problems for a few items and then there are the different versions of C3C to contend with. I'm thinking the MOD plays as meant to on PTW and C3C breaks it. The major differences would be AI armies and less buggy barbs. The barbs aren't even dangerous for the human if you know how they work.
The only standard traits that get cheaper improvements are religious & scientific. That's why i added the info to the effects section. Agricultural & Seafaring get cheaper improvements but no improvements have those traits in TAM. A run thru as an agricultural civ would decide if cheaper aqueducts (for example) are hard coded or not.
I started but never finished a Fertile Cresent game as the Minoans and am presently playing the main TAM map as Rome on monarch level. In both games so far, Babylon is the AI tech leader and the Great library only works if i help the other civs keep up. So i end up researching most things on my own anyway.
Has the AI used an amphibious attack on you? I've had one so far.
Justus II
General Staff
watorrey said:Thanks
Mind you, I am not changing ANY editor settings, just making the civilopedia agree with what is there.
I suspect there may have been import problems for a few items and then there are the different versions of C3C to contend with. I'm thinking the MOD plays as meant to on PTW and C3C breaks it. The major differences would be AI armies and less buggy barbs. The barbs aren't even dangerous for the human if you know how they work.
The only standard traits that get cheaper improvements are religious & scientific. That's why i added the info to the effects section. Agricultural & Seafaring get cheaper improvements but no improvements have those traits in TAM. A run thru as an agricultural civ would decide if cheaper aqueducts (for example) are hard coded or not.
I started but never finished a Fertile Cresent game as the Minoans and am presently playing the main TAM map as Rome on monarch level. In both games so far, Babylon is the AI tech leader and the Great library only works if i help the other civs keep up. So i end up researching most things on my own anyway.
Has the AI used an amphibious attack on you? I've had one so far.
Interesting info about Babylon. I am playing on the Large Med map, as Rome (emperor), and chose 16 civs to be pretty well spread over the map, but didn't choose Babylon (I have Persia and Assyria in that area already). I'll have to make sure and include them in my next game. I thought I was the early tech leader until I was suprised by not getting a tech from Philosophy, and finally contacted Nubia, who was about even with me overall, but had gotten to Philosophy first.
I did build the Genius of Archimedes, though, and that jumped me back into the lead pretty easily (I took Furnace and Iron Working). I also have been pretty stingy about selling tech, Mycenae didn't have Iron connected by the time my Legions invaded. I've found the Great Library good for letting the AI catch me up in the required techs while I go for the optional ones I want (Republic, Representation, Imperialism). Generally, the 2nd tier of tech leaders has been Assyria, Hittites, and Mycenae (before I took them out). The western nations have been slower, although Carthage got a boost when they contacted Nubia.
I haven't seen the AI attempt amphib units, but I used the Composite Bowman to take several Mycenaen cities, both on the continent and the islands, and also to grab a couple footholds in Carthage. The combination of Legions enslaving to a barb archer, which then upgrades to the Comp. Bowman, makes for a pretty self-sustaining war machine, especially with no resource requirements. I'd think that enslaved units shouldn't upgrade, myself.
I'll try to put together a more comprehensive AAR when I finish, and then I'm going to try a Fertile Crescent game as well, maybe at Diety, and see how that affects the AI tech rates.
I've played the full game about ten times using anywhere from 16 to 30 civs. Whenever Babylon is included, she is the tech leader. Just to keep up I have to make lots of contacts and keep trading throughout the game. Usually, I am behind, but on a "better" path so I don't get put at a disadvantage militarily.watorrey said:Thanks
am presently playing the main TAM map as Rome on monarch level. In both games so far, Babylon is the AI tech leader and the Great library only works if i help the other civs keep up. So i end up researching most things on my own anyway.
If I play a civ adjacent to Babylon, I target her for "triming" from the very beginning.
I don't have or forsee any problems keeping ahead in tech at monarch level maybe because i am playing w/ all 29 rivals and know them all. Emporer might be a better challenge for me or a harder civ or both.
I was thinking of trying the PTW version next game to see if it feels much different.
Anyone tried both PTW & C3C versions?
I was thinking of trying the PTW version next game to see if it feels much different.
Anyone tried both PTW & C3C versions?
Have you tried playing a civ distant from babylon (like Gaul or Briton or Spain) so that making the connections to the middle east are harder and take longer?
Similar threads
