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The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by thamis, Nov 29, 2005.

  1. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    Thanks for your kind words and the offer to help. I think the best help you can give me is:
    - Correct any errors that are evident in any city list or pedia description (there's no TAM pedia yet, but there will be).
    - Any ideas on unique units.
    - Any ideas on the tech tree
    - Any ideas on religion (not quite sure if I want to keep the political correctness of CIV4 with all religions being equal... we're going to be dealing with ancient religions here, so no damage done I assume. ;))
     
  2. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    I know the river Ebro is longer than I drew it on the map. I didn't want such a long river, because rivers are very powerful in CIV-terms. I'll keep the correcting of the river on my list, but not as a high priority.

    I haven't changed anything about any techs, and I haven't even LOOKED at starting technologies. All this will come later!
     
  3. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    ¿and you can write a simple tutorial to do the units?
     
  4. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    Sure I can. I can write a little program that does it. :)
     
  5. davbenbak

    davbenbak Lackey

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    @EdCase: If you could do some skinning, how hard would it be to make more primitive types of ships? Remove the sail and dragon head of the galley for a coracle or just the bow and stern for a trireme? I've been modifying the "Greek World" mod that came with the game (have to play something until TAM is finished) and the Phoenicians need a UU. I'm sure Thamis would find it useful as well.
     
  6. Batvanio

    Batvanio Chieftain

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    hi thamis - just some of my thoughts on the project:

    I enjoyed a lot playing the ancient scenario that comes with the original Civ4 and you can take some ideas from there mainly:

    - the circle around the map - it is a nice touch as the the sea/ocean and mountains were made in such a way that you get to certain areas after you research technologies for sea/ ocean passing. You must play it to see the advantage of refusing easy access to asia/africa at first point from strategic point of view. This gives more strategy to seafaring also and as we know it was very important for mediterranean civs. Also I dont think a circle is incorect as it is not much more incorrect than a rectangular cut on map edges.

    - in that scenario you already have some religions and technology settings setuped which you can use.

    - I liked the idea of constantly spawning barbarians in stacks of 7 units. It kept the game active and my units fighting and upgrading. The only thing was that script spawned units within my territory which is inccorrect and makes defense hard, but outside the borders lots of barbarian stack spawn made the game huge fun.

    - I enjoyed in that scenario having less technologies but researching them harder and longer. This was also in the spirit of the times where a technology or a change mattered a lot. It also allowed me to have some type of units from start game till end game with me - without having to upgrade them and reaching 8+ promotions which was very fun and a little bit RPG flavoured. Imagine special upgraded units - Hector, Ceasar etc. Individual heroism mattered at that time.

    Hope my thoughts were helpful. I do recommend you to play the scenario several time to get my ideas better.
     
  7. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    I know the Greek World scenario quite well, as Rhye had a little bit of help from me when he made it.

    I am not in favour of the round edges. That was a cool idea for that mod, but I prefer a real map.

    I will restate once more, there will be many, many, many technologies in this scenario that are ONLY in the ancient times. You will have the same research speed as in the normal game.

    There will be some barbarian spawn events according to historical events, but that's the last thing I'll work on.
     
  8. Batvanio

    Batvanio Chieftain

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    oh sorry - was not aware that you took part in that nice scenario. :)

    btw - to make a real map would it be better to be an enourmous map of earth but with impassable ocean/land terrain at some point, instead of a rectangular shape?
    I still think those "land edges" of a rectangular map give you an advantage
     
  9. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    Land edges actually give you a disadvantage because you cannot expand in that direction.

    A huge earth map would make the game unbearably slow. I've been modding CIV3 and CIV4 for the last 3 years, this is the best way to do it, believe me. ;)
     
  10. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    You're the ****in boss. (el puto amo)

    I'm preparing a list of iberian units, i'm looking a lot of information and pictures, for example, now I know that the basic iberian infantery, the real name are "Scutarii". With his history for a future civilopedia.
     
  11. Gaias

    Gaias Earthman

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    Only place that matters... Alberta
    Must... have... TAM mod... for Civ4... :twitch:
     
  12. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    This is an advance of my work:

    Celtiberian Units


    Not can be considered an iberian army in general because are different depending on his characteristics (celts, iberian and celtiberian). But do posible the mod we have paid attention to the most common characteristics and have considered the most peculiar units.



    Infantery

    Scutarii (Basic Infantery):




    IMPORTANT: The inclusion of a black CAPE characteristic of these íberos. To replace the wild sows by "falcata" (the iberian sword).

    A better vision of Falcata:


    Description: The scutarii's, it is the basic unit of íbera infantery, were used like mercenaty by the Carthaginians and to a lesser extent by the Romans, being crucial in the battles of Aníbal in Hispania. Most famous and fierce they came from north of Iberia, being the most famous Cantabrians. They dressed in long black layers, as far as the arms, carried light shields in circular form, in its legs and shinbones they had braids of hairs and they covered its heads with helmets with bronze. They also carried the traditional falcatas: forged swords of double edge with excellent steel, as complement used daggers of small stature for the hand-to-hand combat.

    Turdetans Lancers:



    Description: Very important against the enemy cavalry, the iberian lancers and in special the turdetans. They were characterized by its red crest upon its helmet of bronze. When it touched fight hand-to-hand used their "falcata"

    Lusitans Warriors.

    ftp://fern9508:mod@ftp.jazztel.es/lusitanos.JPG

    Important: To the being guerrilla they must have some species of advantage in attack (the ambushes always are by surprise) and another advantage in concealment (the ambushes usually become in a land previously studied and very hidden). They would have to be able to defeat to units of superior force, in zones like forests, hills and mountains and if reason why outside they are losing in these lands must have a lot of possibilities (surroundings to 70%) of scape (the forest was its natural land). On the other hand they would have almost null to attack cities and very good to sack villas, farms etc... IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO CONSERVE THE WILD SOW THEN WAS THE MAIN INSTRUMENT OF THE GUERRILLA. THE SHIELD IN THIS CASE IS NOT OF BRONZE BUT OF OF LEATHER. LINEN ARMORS ALSO TAKE, (TO SEE AN ARMOR OF MESH IN A GUERRILLA ERA VERY LITTLE COMMON).

    Description: Coming from inner Iberia, greater part was the basic troops of great leader Íbero Viriato.La take to linen armors, single few take mesh armors and helmet of three plumes, the others use leather helmet. The infants also use grebas and each one takes several wild sows. Some take lances for estoque with bronze ends. With the great mobility and great ability of concealment they were the nightmare of the Romans in Iberia, who suffered new tactics single-breasted uniform jacket, the call guerrilla, this tactics consisted of hiding in recondite valleys, mountains, passages etc... to attack the enemy by surprise and with a very favorable tactical advantage. Thus with few troops one was able to infringe great losses. The tactics consisted generally of unloading a pile of projectiles the wild sows and next to hide, debilitating little by little to the enemy for in the end, with the enemy already decimated, to present/display battle hand-to-hand.

    Northern: Scutarii Heavy.

    ftp://fern9508:mod@ftp.jazztel.es/astures.JPG

    Important: They were the element celt of the íberos is more important that they are blond, and with that so special helmet, by the other heavy levels of mesh, and great shields. IT IS NECESSARY TO ADD To the GREAT FALCATA THAT ARE IN The IMAGE TWO LANCES (IN The WAIST) A LIGHT One And ANOTHER HEAVY One. They must be a powerful unit in hand-to-hand, weak against cavalry (this unit is very slow), with little mobility (great penalty in forests), and good in attacks against cities (they must have a great life).

    Description: Proceed of the north of Iberia, was the element more celta of íberia, were in its majority asturs, vascons, arevácos or cantábros . Their armors consisted of two lances, light and a other heavy one, and a falcata. The shield whereupon was defended was great and heavy, model evolved of celta. The íbera striking power.

    Coming soon the other units

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Spanish to correct translations errors:

    No se puede considerar un ejército íbero en general pues son diferentes dependiendo de sus características ( celtas, íberos y celtíberos). Pero para hacer posible el juego nos hemos fijado en las características más comunes y hemos tenido en cuenta las unidades más peculiares.

    Infantería.



    Scutarii: Importante : La inclusión de una capa negra característica de estos íberos. Substituir las jabalinas por una "falcata" espada íbera.

    Para tener una mejor visión de la falcata:


    Descricpión: Los scutarii, es la unidad de infantería íbera básica, fueron usados como mercenarios por los cartagineses y en menor medida por los romanos, siendo cruciales en las batallas de Aníbal en Hispania.
    Los más renombrado y fieros procedían de norte de Iberia, siendo los más renombrados los cántabros. Vestían con unas largas capas de negro, en cuanto a las armas, portaban escudos lígeros en forma circular, en sus piernas y espinillas tenían trenzas de pelos y cubrían sus cabezas con cascos de bronze . Portaban también las tradicionales falcatas: espadas de doble filo forjadas con excelente acero, como complemento usaban unos puñales de pequeña estatura para el combate cuerpo a cuerpo.

    Lanceros Turdenatos: Para una visión íntegra:

    Descripción: Muy importantes contra la caballería enemiga, los lanceros íberos y en especial los turdenatos, se caracterizaban por su cresta roja encima de su casco de bronze. Cuando tocaba pelea cuerpo a cuerpo usaban su "falcata" pegada a su cuerpo.



    Guerrilleros Lusitanos:



    Importante: Al ser guerrilleros tendrían que tener alguna especie de bonificación en ataque ( las emboscadas siempre son por sorpresa) y otra bonificación en ocultamiento ( las emboscadas suelen hacerse en un terreno previamente estudiado y muy escondido). Deberían ser capaces de derrotar a unidades de fuerza superior, en zonas como bosques, colinas y montañas y si por lo que fuera van perdiendo en estos terrenos deberían tener muchísimas posibilidades ( entorno al 70%) de huír ( el bosque era su terreno natural). Por otro lado tendrían que se casi nulos para atacar ciudades y muy buenos para saquear villas, granjas etc... ES MUY IMPORTANTE CONSERVAR LA JABALINA PUES ERA EL INSTRUMENTO PRINCIPAL DE LA GUERRILLA. EL ESCUDO EN ESTE CASO NO ES DE BRONCE SINO DE DE CUERO. SE LLEVAN TAMBIEN CORAZAS DE LINO, ( VER UNA CORAZA DE MALLA EN UN GUERRILLERO ERA MUY POCO COMÚN).

    Descripción: Procedentes de la Iberia interior, fueron la tropa básica de gran líder Íbero Viriato.La mayor parte llevan corazas de lino, solo unos pocos llevan corazas de malla y casco de tres penachos, los demás usan casco de cuero. Los infantes usan también grebas y cada uno lleva varias jabalinas. Algunos llevan lanzas para estoque con puntas de bronce. Con una gran movilidad y gran habilidad de ocultación fueron la pesadilla de los romanos en la Iberia, que padecieron una nueva táctica guerrera, la llamada guerrilla, esta táctica consistía en esconderse en recónditos valles, montañas, pasajes etc... para atacar al enemigo por sorpresa y con una ventaja táctica muy favorable. Así con pocas tropas se conseguía infringir grandes bajas. Generalmente la táctica consistía en descargar un montón de proyectiles con las jabalinas y seguidamente esconderse, debilitanto poco a poco al enemigo para al final, con el enemigo ya diezmado,presentar batalla cuerpo a cuerpo.



    Norteños : Scutarii Pesados.



    Importante: Eran el elemento más celta de los íberos es importante que sean rubios, y con ese casco tan especial, por lo demás cotas de malla pesadas, y grandes escudos. HAY QUE AÑADIR A LA FALCATA GRANDE QUE HAY EN LA IMAGEN DOS LANZAS ( EN LA CINTURA) UNA LIGERA Y OTRA PESADA. Deben ser una unidad poderosa en cuerpo a cuerpo, débil contra caballería ( esta unidad es muy lenta), con poca movilidad ( gran penalización en bosques), y buenos en ataques contra ciudades ( deberían tener una gran vida).


    Descripción: Prodecedentes del norte de la Iberia, era el elemento más celta de la íberia, eran en su mayoría astures, vascones, arevácos o cantábros .Su armamento constaba de dos lanzas, una ligera y otra pesada, ademas de una falcata. El escudo con que se defendían era grande y pesado, modelo evolucionado del celta. La fuerza de choque íbera.
     
  13. EdCase

    EdCase Defender of the Faithless

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    I haven't really looked into the skinning aspect yet..but if Firaxis used alpha channels in their art ..I might, repeat might be able to "alpha-edit" details out of objects/units .
    I have a day off work tomorrow I will investigate it then.
    @Thamis...Celtic swordsman...hmm got any reference images you can post ?
    of how you would ideally like it to look and i'll go from there.
     
  14. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    @EdCase: Just put a celtic knot on the shield maybe?
     
  15. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    @SV: Thanks for the Iberian info. I think this will come in handy when we get to making the units.
     
  16. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    When I have more time I will post the calvary units and others.

    See you!
     
  17. EdCase

    EdCase Defender of the Faithless

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    Ok...well "alpha-editing" is out ..anything made transparent on the alpha channel appears to assume civ specified color...interesting but not what I was after.:(

    Celtic knot..okey dokey will do so.
     
  18. Spirit_Viriato

    Spirit_Viriato Chieftain

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    @ED yo live in Florida, then you must know spanish. ¿can you compare the two texts (in the large post) and then view any mistake?
     
  19. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    Celtic Knot that I'm going to use:
     
  20. thamis

    thamis King of Kish

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    Hmm... something is wrong with the rivers in v0.4... gotta fix that.
     

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