The AoM Travel Guide

[Dom Pedro II]

America isn't a Civilization, its only been around for 200 odd years. Despite what the US has accomplished, their are more deserving and interesting cultures, lets face the facts....America is boring, trust me, I live here.

So do I and so does Mobilize... America might be "boring" but it has great historical significance...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Yes...thats why its in Civ3...It doesn't make much sense for a modern country to exist in Civ3 or a mod tracing the progress of Humanity alongside ancient civilizations though. Thats why America is always on my chopping block.

 

[Mobilize]

I wouldn't say America is boring.. I think it's quite interesting historically too.

The U.S. has been around for 200 years, but so what? They've accomplished more than civs who have been around much longer. I am against the entire "is a civilization/is not a civilization" thought most Civ players agree with. People define civilizations are large groups of people with a definitive culture. I use to think so to but I'm yielding on that definition.

The game Civilization is about alternate history and how you can be the Aztecs living on some arctic island waging a naval war against the English who live on a large jungle continent.

Now people recreate history and the Earth's alternate history with scenarios and mods, but the game is still based on complete fiction with non-fictional nations. I'd rather call the civilizations in the games nations. The term civilization means a different thing to everybody thus creating arguments, misconceptions, etc.

So who really cares if America's not really classified as a civilization? How is anything really supposed to be classified as a civilization? If America isn't a civilization then neither is England, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, France, etc. etc. All you would have would be Egypt, Greece, Babylon, Sumer, and Persia.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

There are far more interesting cultures that belong in the game more than the US. Like the Kymer for example. So America has done alot in its 200 year history...so what? Most of that history was spent killing innocent people. The America that exists now came into existance probably around the turn of last century.

 

[Mobilize]

You may thing the U.S. as boring but if you were in another country and never been here you would thing it was amazing. People are always bored within their own culture/country because they already been-there-done-that.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I wouldn't say America is boring.. I think it's quite interesting historically too.

The U.S. has been around for 200 years, but so what? They've accomplished more than civs who have been around much longer. I am against the entire "is a civilization/is not a civilization" thought most Civ players agree with. People define civilizations are large groups of people with a definitive culture. I use to think so to but I'm yielding on that definition.

The game Civilization is about alternate history and how you can be the Aztecs living on some arctic island waging a naval war against the English who live on a large jungle continent.

Now people recreate history and the Earth's alternate history with scenarios and mods, but the game is still based on complete fiction with non-fictional nations. I'd rather call the civilizations in the games nations. The term civilization means a different thing to everybody thus creating arguments, misconceptions, etc.

So who really cares if America's not really classified as a civilization? How is anything really supposed to be classified as a civilization? If America isn't a civilization then neither is England, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, France, etc. etc. All you would have would be Egypt, Greece, Babylon, Sumer, and Persia.

I agree. This is partly because my expertise is in American history... I know more about U.S. history than I even know about Brazilian history. Much more... so I have a rather bias view on the matter...

Actually, I must admit that I'm rather surprised that Mobilize and I are defending the USA's inclusion and you are not... You're definitely more conservative than we are... *shrugs*

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

You may thing the U.S. as boring but if you were in another country and never been here you would thing it was amazing. People are always bored within their own culture/country because they already been-there-done-that.

Your probably right. Its not really that I'm against having America in the game, its that Civ doesn't really represent the full scope of human cultures.

Maybe DP, you should make multiple biqs with different civs. I did something like that with Far Horizons( I have an American version and a Finland version)

Now to get back on topic:

On the subject of Native American Nations, the Cherokee and Iroquois are a good twosome. If you want more than two, consider the Haida and the Pueblo. The Pueblo were one of the few North Americans to actually build cities, and the Haida are cool. The Sioux are worthy of being included as well.

 

[Mobilize]

The Pueblo are very deserving.. I think the West North American Rifleman would make a great UU.

The Haida are interesting, but I don't know about civ material. Other good Native American civs would be Arapaho, Ojibwe (Cree), Creek, Shawnee, Caddo, Arapaho, and Taino.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Reminds me of the NA mod....

Well, the Haida had towns and were sedentary like the Pueblo. They were famaos because they were one of the first Native American tribes to use bronze. The Pueblo are great as well.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

I have considered making multiple BIQs, but consider for a moment that this mod involves unique tech trees and improvements...

Let's get these 31 flavors of Civ done first, k, buddies?

 

[Steph]

I hate when people even think about combining the Iroquois and the U.S. That is a big no no, especially to a Native American. That's like saying mixing the Jews and the Germans into a civ called the Third Reich.
.

No, wrong example. It would be like giving Germanic Warrior in the Ancient ages, Teutonic Knights in the middle-ages, Prussian musketeer in the gunpowder ages, Nazis SS in the modern ages, and Leopard 2 in the post modern ages.

 

[Mobilize]

Um.. that's a bad example Steph.

I was comparing the civs not the unit.

Well here's a better example on my part:
Iroquois : America :: Aztecs : Spanish

Mixing a native civ with a colonial civ which killed off it's male population and then raped the women and ended up with mixed races.

 

[IamsocleveR]

Whoops, stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest.

 

[Midnight Piper]

I usually dump America too. This time around, however, I'm thinking of taking a different tact: I'm making America representative of all the legandary/historical/suspected European/Mediteranean colonial efforts in the Americas. Phoenicean/Celtic units in the ancient era, Viking units in the Medieval, transitioning into colonial America and Modern America in the industrial and modern eras.

The Iroquois get to represent the north american natives - I figure their unique unit is a plains indian, so it's not much of a stretch (even though there are plenty of THOSE whose' civilizations were wiped out by the militant Iroquois who would probably object).

 

[IamsocleveR]

Intriguing tack regarding America, that.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

The Iroquois get to represent the north american natives - I figure their unique unit is a plains indian, so it's not much of a stretch (even though there are plenty of THOSE whose' civilizations were wiped out by the militant Iroquois who would probably object).

Up until now, I've done essentially the same... I gave them the Haida Canoe as another unit for the Iroquois as well as all of Kinboat and utahjazz's units (with the exception of the Western NA American Rifleman).... I want to add more North American tribes, and yet I don't... because if I do, then that stretches my flavor units even thinner since then they wouldn't get the Iroquois units, I'd have to remove the current Iroquois UU, and the Iroquois wouldn't be able to make use of whatever UU's there might be for the Cherokee, Sioux, etc.

 

[IamsocleveR]

The Iroquois should for sure get Kinboat's NA "Swordsman" as a UU. Remember that wicked weapon being used by the old tough Dad dude in "Last of the Mohicans"? I gather Mohicans (and Mohawks, and Hurons) are about as Iroquois-Confederaty as need be.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

The Iroquois should for sure get Kinboat's NA "Swordsman" as a UU. Remember that wicked weapon being used by the old tough Dad dude in "Last of the Mohicans"? I gather Mohicans (and Mohawks, and Hurons) are about as Iroquois-Confederaty as need be.

Well, the Mohawk actually were part of the Iroquois Confederacy... the Huron were enemies of the Confederacy, but asthetically-speaking, their units would look basically the same... as for the Mohicans, if we're going based on the Last of the Mohicans, we have to remember also that they are heavily influenced by Europeans at that point.

 

[Xen]

a question that I figured would be good for the thread, since it would have to be addressed if it is so; is thier a finite number for how many strategi, or luxury resources you can have, and if so, what is that maximum of each type?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Theres nothing wrong with sharing Flavor units. But combining the Haida with the Iroquois is like combining the Roman Empire with China....