The attack on Syria

[FriendlyFire]

Ah, good! The Independent did not fear to publish Fisk's piece there is one who deserves to be called journalist. I had been waiting to see what he reported.

I would have included a warning since Russians are in control of the area, the clinic and civilians. especially since both these doctors have already appeared in a RUSSIAN government video denying that there was any gas attack

Plus do you not find it suspicious that Russians allowed journalist to visit the site before the UN Inspectors ? I would have sent them in at the SAME time so they can document everything that was done and release it to the western media. If it is only just the clinlic that is disproven thats fine. Iam more interested the photos of all the carpet of dead people with yellow shine.

 

[innonimatu]

The inspectors are reported to be on the site already. In the meanwhile there are other reports from journalists coming in. Contradictory so far. We can wait.

As for worries about the russias being oin control of the site for some time... tel me, are you more or less worried about that than you are about the jihadis who controlled the site at the time of the alleged attack?

And are you more or less worried about russian control of the site during inspections than you are about sole UK control of the Salisbury affair sites for over two weeks before the OPCW had a chance to send someone there?

Also, surely if the UK claims it will busy decontaminating sites in Salisbury for months after the alleged attack there with minute quantities of a mysterious nerve agent that did not even manage to kill anyone, the OPCW will be able to find plenty of evidence in Douma from agents that allegedly killed dozens of people, after just a few days?

This is getting so ridiculous, the lies and twisted reasoning disseminated in the media, that I would emigrate to a different planet if there was one with a rational intelligent species there... bloody third-rate movie argument.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The inspectors are reported to be on the site already. In the meanwhile there are other reports from journalists coming in. Contradictory so far. We can wait.

As for worries about the russias being oin control of the site for some time... tel me, are you more or less worried about that than you are about the jihadis who controlled the site at the time of the alleged attack?

And are you more or less worried about russian control of the site during inspections than you are about sole UK control of the Salisbury affair sites for over two weeks before the OPCW had a chance to send someone there?

Did you even read your own link ?
Click bait tiles are pretty common but at least read through the article

Journalists were allowed access to the suspected attack sites on Monday, but the OPCW said Syrian and Russian authorities blocked the inspectors.

As for the 350 different groups operating in Syria I have an equally low opinion probably not much worse then the Syrian regime
I am quite willing to be open to all possibilities including the report that it was done by terrorist

This is good reporting.
Two different versions of the events, and confirmed real use of chemical weapons

On Monday, the AP visited a two-room underground shelter where Khaled Mahmoud Nuseir said 47 people were killed, including his pregnant wife and two daughters, 18-month-old Qamar and 2 1/2-year-old Nour. A strange smell lingered, nine days after the attack.

Nuseir, 25, said he ran from the shelter to a nearby clinic and fainted. After he was revived, he returned to the shelter and found his wife and daughters dead, with foam coming from their mouths.

He and two other residents accused the rebel Army of Islam of carrying out the attack. As they spoke, government troops were nearby but out of earshot. Nuseir said a cylinder was found leaking the poison gas, adding that he didn't think it was dropped from the air because it still looked intact.

Separately, the AP spoke to a medic who was among those who later were evacuated to northern Syria. Ahmed Abed al-Nafaa said helicopters were flying before the attack and when he reached the site, people were screaming "chlorine." He said he tried to enter the shelter but was overcome by a strong smell of chlorine and his comrades pulled him out.
t

 

[innonimatu]

Did you even read your own link ?
Click bait tiles are pretty common but at least read through the article

Article quote:

International inspectors on Tuesday entered the Syrian town where an alleged chemical attack was carried out earlier this month, following delays by Syrian and Russian authorities.

Current date: Tuesday. My statement: "The inspectors are reported to be on the site already".

The reporting from journalists on the ground, and check my previous posts for the other: "Contradictory so far."

What was your issue with any of this?

 

[FriendlyFire]

What was your issue with any of this?

Again Russians allowed the journalist to go inspect the site, while denying access to Inspectors

 

[Moriarte]

So, the nation leader who nearly reclaims his country with little help from one of the strongest armies on the planet, the man who nearly won, suddenly decides victory is not enough! To send a message (and to shoot himself in the foot, because he loves being bombed by allies) Assad orders chemical strike. That’s what we call ‘recognizing the photographer’ over here. The same photographer who thought it’s coherent for Vladimir to personally try to assasinate former intelligence officer no one gives a damn about, few days prior to his election. Times change, the song remains the same.

“The US an France say they have evidence, but they have not provided any evidence” — Chicago Tribune

 

[red_elk]

especially since both these doctors have already appeared in a RUSSIAN government video denying that there was any gas attack

If several people are telling the same story it doesn't mean they are the same person.
The medic on Russian TV was Khalil Ashish, and name of the doctor in Fisk's article is Assim Rahaibani.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Looking at US media there is an internal struggle and General Mattis was against any strike in Syria at all and tried to get congress to approve
No evidence it was Assad that deployed the chemicals this seems odd at US UN ambassador said the US has seen enough proof.

 

[Hrothbern]

Meanwhile, foreign journalists start arriving to Douma, interviewing eyewitnesses and telling us strange stories...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...uma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

What I do not understand about this chlorine attack is that nobody mentioned that there was a green gas.

Chlorine gas is looking green and heavier than air.
I once made it during experiments at home, at the balcony of the second floor appartment where I lived, and the experiment went wrong and produced chlorine a lot faster than intended (I used too high amount ingredients as well),
so I fled inhouse, closed the balcony door behind me, and saw several cubic metres of intensely green gas rapidly filling the balcony (stone walled) and pooring over the wall edge downward to the garden at the ground.

I have however no experience with military concentrations, how visible that green color is,

but from Wiki I see you need around 400-1000 ppm to get in the lethal area.
1000 ppm would mean 1 cubic metre diluted in a 10x10x10 metre volume
Roughly remembering and estimating from what I saw around the balcony and in the garden, that lethal dose is still green.

 

[Kyriakos]

What I do not understand about this chlorine attack is that nobody mentioned that there was a green gas.

Chlorine gas is looking green and heavier than air.
I once made it during experiments at home, at the balcony of the second floor appartment where I lived, and the experiment went wrong and produced chlorine a lot faster than intended (I used too high amount ingredients as well),
so I fled inhouse, closed the balcony door behind me, and saw several cubic metres of intensely green gas rapidly filling the balcony (stone walled) and pooring over the wall edge downward to the garden at the ground.

I have however no experience with military concentrations, how visible that green color is,

but from Wiki I see you need around 400-1000 ppm to get in the lethal area.
1000 ppm would mean 1 cubic metre diluted in a 10x10x10 metre volume
Roughly remembering and estimating from what I saw around the balcony and in the garden, that lethal dose is still green.

Did anyone die as a result of your experiment? ^_^

 

[Hrothbern]

Did anyone die as a result of your experiment? ^_^

Pffff
no
But we did move our "little experiments" to the flat roof of the multi floor appartment building of a friend

 

[Bamspeedy]

What I do not understand about this chlorine attack is that nobody mentioned that there was a green gas.

Chlorine gas is looking green and heavier than air.
I once made it during experiments at home, at the balcony of the second floor appartment where I lived, and the experiment went wrong and produced chlorine a lot faster than intended (I used too high amount ingredients as well),
so I fled inhouse, closed the balcony door behind me, and saw several cubic metres of intensely green gas rapidly filling the balcony (stone walled) and pooring over the wall edge downward to the garden at the ground.

I have however no experience with military concentrations, how visible that green color is,

but from Wiki I see you need around 400-1000 ppm to get in the lethal area.
1000 ppm would mean 1 cubic metre diluted in a 10x10x10 metre volume
Roughly remembering and estimating from what I saw around the balcony and in the garden, that lethal dose is still green.

I'm sure that is one of the questions investigators will ask witnesses. If people were hiding in their basements and the tunnels it may be harder to see this green gas than if they were standing on a balcony. If inside a basement, how do you start suffocating from a dust storm? A gas sounds more likely.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

What I do not understand about this chlorine attack is that nobody mentioned that there was a green gas.

Chlorine gas is looking green and heavier than air.
I once made it during experiments at home, at the balcony of the second floor appartment where I lived, and the experiment went wrong and produced chlorine a lot faster than intended (I used too high amount ingredients as well),
so I fled inhouse, closed the balcony door behind me, and saw several cubic metres of intensely green gas rapidly filling the balcony (stone walled) and pooring over the wall edge downward to the garden at the ground.

I have however no experience with military concentrations, how visible that green color is,

but from Wiki I see you need around 400-1000 ppm to get in the lethal area.
1000 ppm would mean 1 cubic metre diluted in a 10x10x10 metre volume
Roughly remembering and estimating from what I saw around the balcony and in the garden, that lethal dose is still green.

Crazy. Had wind blow the other way that day you probably wouldnt be here telling us that story.

 

[red_elk]

What I do not understand about this chlorine attack is that nobody mentioned that there was a green gas.

This "White Helmets" group claimed that nerve gas was used, not chlorine. Hence the pouring water in the video, etc.
Problem is that Syrian regime was blamed in using nerve gas in previous attacks and was supposed to get rid of its stockpile a few years ago.
That's the justification for current air strikes against Assad.
Chlorine, as you apparently know, can be produced from components you can buy anywhere, but producing agents like sarin is much more complicated.

Chlorine gas is looking green and heavier than air.
I once made it during experiments at home, at the balcony of the second floor appartment where I lived, and the experiment went wrong and produced chlorine a lot faster than intended (I used too high amount ingredients as well),
so I fled inhouse, closed the balcony door behind me, and saw several cubic metres of intensely green gas rapidly filling the balcony (stone walled) and pooring over the wall edge downward to the garden at the ground.

If there are any problems with this, just say Russians did it.

 

[Zkribbler]

Inspectors driven off by small arms fire.

Problem is that Syrian regime was blamed in using nerve gas in previous attacks and was supposed to get rid of its stockpile a few years ago.

Syria did indeed turn its nerve gas over to the US for destruction. This doesn't mean it couldn't have been resupplied later.

 

[FriendlyFire]

If there are any problems with this, just say Russians did it.

Russians are blaming the UK intelligence services

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What I do not understand about this chlorine attack is that nobody mentioned that there was a green gas.

Chlorine gas is looking green and heavier than air.
I once made it during experiments at home, at the balcony of the second floor appartment where I lived, and the experiment went wrong and produced chlorine a lot faster than intended (I used too high amount ingredients as well),
so I fled inhouse, closed the balcony door behind me, and saw several cubic metres of intensely green gas rapidly filling the balcony (stone walled) and pooring over the wall edge downward to the garden at the ground.

I have however no experience with military concentrations, how visible that green color is,

but from Wiki I see you need around 400-1000 ppm to get in the lethal area.
1000 ppm would mean 1 cubic metre diluted in a 10x10x10 metre volume
Roughly remembering and estimating from what I saw around the balcony and in the garden, that lethal dose is still green.

Nahhhh. I gassed a pretty big chunk of a soccer field and never had a high enough concentration for it to be noticeably visible.

 

[Hrothbern]

Nahhhh. I gassed a pretty big chunk of a soccer field and never had a high enough concentration for it to be noticeably visible.

You mean a lethal dose for that soccer field size ?

EDIT
I think it is all about the concentration targeted for:
from wiki:

Humans can smell chlorine gas at ranges from 0.1–0.3 ppm. According to a review from 2010: "At 1–3 ppm, there is mild mucus membrane irritation that can usually be tolerated for about an hour. At 5–15 ppm, there is moderate mucus membrane irritation. At 30 ppm and beyond, there is immediate chest pain, shortness of breath, and cough. At approximately 40–60 ppm, a toxic pneumonitis and/or acute pulmonary edema can develop.... Concentrations of about 400 ppm and beyond are generally fatal over 30 minutes, and at 1,000 ppm and above, fatality ensues within only a few minutes."[2]

I used that 400-1,000 ppm as lethal dose for my post. Though as such correct, I think the targeted effect of fear/terror and disrupt military effectivity by breathing issues happens at much lower concentrations: could be at 30 ppm
At which concentration I can imagine very well that you do not see the color anymore.

 

[BirraImperial]

This is ridiculous....

 

[red_elk]

The nastiest side-effect of my chemical experiments was unintended hydrogen explosion in apartment of my schoolmate
But nobody was harmed, at least physically.