the best civics

[Windoze]

State property is godly. especially in large empires

my last game i had a very large empire. and i had my science slider at 60% nearly the entire game. and getting a positive flow of around 100 gold per turn further in the game. Raising it to 70% would lower my gold into a deficit per turn of about 60 -70 gold or so. this was while having State property active.

Taking off state property to switch to environmentalism caused me to have a negative 900+ gold income per turn.

i'd say state property is pretty much insanely awesome.

 

[jake1er]

i always kinda prioritize building the pyramids, i love bureaucracy early in the game *cracks the whip*

 

[Ormur]

Representation is very powerful early in the game with pyramids, slavery is also for a big part of the game. Later Free Market or State Property can be crucial depending on whether you have a large empire or corporations.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Best civics depend on where you are in the game and the kinds of options available in each game.

For example, many times hereditary rule > representation! It might give a favorite civic bonus, or you might not have enough to grow your capitol to pop 15 by the early ADs with rep.

Interestingly, as much as people like mids for research, a standard bureaucracy capitol with cottages and pop 15+ is very, very competitive with that (especially if you run specialists elsewhere to get great people). Nothing like 3-4 early game great scientists and about 150 BPT in the 1 ad to 500 AD range with 0 wonders .

But, what if you have stone and some happy resources? Well, now you can do both, and put up 200+ bpt easily, plus bulbing, all before 500 AD.

Every civic can be your best choice at some point, although serfdom and environmentalism are probably the least 2 favored (though environmentalism may still be sound in some games, just not as frequently). Serfdom is probably the least useful of the civics (that aren't defaults, of course those are the worst since they do nothing!)...but even there it isn't useless...

 

[Gwynnja]

I've been having quite a bit of Representation vs. US and SP vs. Free Market & corporations debate with myself lately. It used to be I would never use Rep unless I built (rarely) or captured (occaisionally) the Mids, because I'm such a cottage spammer and I love seeing my commerce cities turn into late game production cities with US and Levees, but the sheer beakers I get from representation are hard to argue with, sometimes as much as 15-20% of all my research. State Property makes it really easy to turn ridiculously placed aI cities into production centers that can act either as unit spammers or wealth/research builders.

 

[Joshua368]

Representation
Bureaucracy
Slavery
Free Market
Organized Religion

Of course the best in whatever situation I'm in varies but those are my favorites.

 

[Cutlass]

If I build the pyramids, I never adopt Representation before a couple of the AIs do. I think it's just too powerful. But i run it most of the rest of the game. I haven't tried State Property, Caste System, or Bureaucracy.

 

[Jazzmail]

Slavery is the best civic by far, if you're willing to do heavy micromanaging. I don't like too much micro, so I don't favor this one.

My favourite civic is Bureaucracy. Powerful and game changing. Number 1 for wonderspam.

I like this combo:

Representation
Bureaucracy
Caste
SP
OR

 

[Sciguy001]

I love hereditary rule. My favorite civic of all time. On the earlier difficulties you can not reserach archery and then pump out warriors for one hapiness each. There are so many good food and hapiness resources are rare and valuable. Instead of conquering a territory or pay 20 gold per turn for a hapiness resource you can just spend one turn building a warrior and tadah! I usulay never end up changing from hereditary rule.

 

[Willem]

I used to prefer Slavery over Caste System but I've switched my preference recently. Being able to get those early specialists can really make a difference in the game. I won't switch to it until I can also switch to Hereditary Rule though. And I also really like Vassalage for those extra XP points. For me, my favourites are:

Representation
Vassalage
Hereditary Rule
Free Religion
Free Market

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If I build the pyramids, I never adopt Representation before a couple of the AIs do. I think it's just too powerful. But i run it most of the rest of the game. I haven't tried State Property, Caste System, or Bureaucracy.

I ask that you re-think this. Representation is a good civic with plenty of potential, but it's not far-out overpowering. A few examples:

-- A map where my was limited for much of the early game. HR solves that, and the beaker output is actually pretty poor compared to riverside cottage versions of this, yet still competitive with rep

Believe it or not, I had a city with even MORE food that I used to get my GPP. Since this was just someone's request on how to win huge/noble, I wasn't trying too hard. From 1575 AD after drafting infantry to the end of the game I just walked from city to city.

-- Jungle start on emperor, also somewhat weak play by myself but nevertheless a decent beaker rate:

Basically whether you're better in rep or HR depends on how much happiness you have. Rep specialists will outdo normal cottages until they grow but if you only have a pop 9 capitol a bureaucracy cottage capitol will leave 4-5 rep scientists in the dust, even if you try to run them everywhere.

IMO, the civics are much less debatable than traits. You switch to a civic when it offers you the highest potential. It's working as intended - balanced so that the best one is situational.

Other side of the coin:

Rep, just like HR, can be pretty strong...especially if the opportunity costs of running it aren't too high:

I'd have been better off not building the mids at all, however, had I not had stone. Use your surroundings wisely...

 

[champ82]

State property is nice - I've recently been using it for the first few times. It does not hold a candle to Mining Corp / Sushi or Jewlers / Sushi / Creative Constructions on Free Market though. If one has a huge empire and is worried about cost, spread Jewlers first to your filler cities, if you can. Then send CC to your powerhouse production cities and sushi to your cities in need of food. So I guess my take on State Property is it is good for it's time, probably the best, but ideally would get replaced by corps.

Back when I played on noble and had automated cottage economies, I also ran environmentalism. I think the corporation costs are not the end of the world - as you can still have huge cottage cities. Goes well with US. Although, I'm half guessing - I haven't tried this since playing Monarch.

Beuracracy + Representation is great if you have some settled specialists. Throw in the great library and things get silly good.

I like to run Caste System after I've whipped graneries, forges, coutrhouses, barracks, sometimes libraries or lighthouses. Sometimes I wait until after guilds. The +1 to workshop I find the best part, not the unlimited artist, merchant, scientist. I usually take the lead on the production graph this way. I should mention that while I do understand the fundementals of whipping, I don't have it figured out inside out the way some people do.

I usually don't run mercantilism unless I'm playing a spirtual leader. It comes too close to Free Market, and doesn't capitalize (literally) on all the $ astronomy brings in, which is also close.

I really like it when I discover feudalism as a SPI leader. Pump out double protective longbowmen for a few turns, then go Beuracracy.

I'm settling great people more than I used to. If I'm playing culture, settle a great artist early in the weakest of the three cities. Settle a merchant in your shrine city (priests are actually probably better 1 less coin, 1 less food but plus 2 hammers than a merchant, I have four settled in my current game, helps get Wall Street put up quicker- which is huge.) And of course scientists in my academy / future oxfod city. Representation with settled specialists is huge. I don't mess with US anymore. I tried it for a turn (post Christo redeemer). The modest production bonus was not worth the hit I took in science.

I love organized religion too. I love SPI leaders because if it works out diplomatically, I love putting up quick unis and factories with it. I've rocked University of Sankore, Apostic Pallace, and Sistine Chapel with this - it is great - even better with SPI leaders. Gets new or conquered cities up and running and useful fast.

I don't rock theorcracy. I like OR and FR too much. For culture wins I want all sorts of religions to spread in my land. Besides the military benefits, I could see it being useful though - if a hostile AI had the AP and you didn't want to be pulled into their diplomatic nonsense.

While it has been rare, nationalism has helped me out of jams that nothing else could have. A SPI leader with some sort of militaristic trait, CHA, PRO or AGG - if I have riflemen I pretty much don't have to worry about anybody. I've neglected military and made it out (by the seat of my pants) in 2 or 3 games like this.

HR when I can get it. Unless I build pyramids, then Representation. If no pyramids, I'll move on to representation later.

Vassalge maybe, for a limited time. Then Beuracracy, and finally Free Speech if I'm going for culture or have tight borders. Free Speech + corps + eifil tower = have fun trying to surprise my border cities and losing your cities land and resources.

Slavery to whip out some basic buildings, then CS to make the lands with plains but no mountains productive. Then Emancipation when over half of the AIs have it (I usually give in when I'm at war.)

Free Market, then State property, then back to free market when / if I have the right great person to find the right corp.

Organized Religion unless the tech race gets competitive or the map is hairy religiously / politically, then FR. I played a game as Breneus where the pangea continent was divided pretty evenly between Hinduism and Budhism. I had random personalities and I couldn't tell who i was going to get along with and who I wasn't, so I built Shezwan Papaya (I know that's not what it's called, sorry for being an insensitive lazy slob). The science bonus was nice, but what was really nice is everyone hating each other but not hating me. For the same reasons, I usually eventually run Free Religion anyways, to get ahead in techs and also to make some allies on the other side of the world.

Sometimes Pacifism - like if I'm Fredrick and have five engineers in my great person farm and just can't wait for Mining Co.

So yeah, this is how I roll. It fits my playing style (which isn't good for all civs, i.e. Spain, Aztecs, others.) It all depends. You can tell from my prefered civics what type of player I am (builder who doesn't tend to kick ass militarily early, although sometimes I do.)

I have gained more insight into how to leverage different civs and different playing styles on this forum listening to how people use different civivs than anything else.

Some people really have this stuff figured out better than me, or at least utilize civics in a powerful, different way, and I really respect it. It's stuff I never really thought of and still haven't mastered or even attempted to even though now I understand the basic idea. I'm thinking of those who truely master slavery or nationalism where food = power and others who rock vassalage / theocracy to raze hell.

 

[nanomage]

It's shame to confess, but i have no favourite. Civics are just finely balanced, maybe only serfdom deserves a slight power-up. However, that's an idea, maybe a bit offtopic.
I know that Environmentalism is regarded as low-tier civic, maybe only worth of short-term using when playing Spi or CR-owners.
But look - things maybe completely different for either Zulu or HRE!
Quartered (HRE) or nearly quartered (Zulu) maintenance costs will compensate for +25% from Env, and you will still gain +8 (6+2PT) health from it, allowing you to avoid building almost all +health buildings (and +4 PT is _very_ cheap), or to run heavy late-SE with oversised cities.
The latter is my favourite strategy, that's why i pop up with the idea

 

[noto2]

State property is nice - I've recently been using it for the first few times. It does not hold a candle to Mining Corp / Sushi or Jewlers / Sushi / Creative Constructions on Free Market though. If one has a huge empire and is worried about cost, spread Jewlers first to your filler cities, if you can. Then send CC to your powerhouse production cities and sushi to your cities in need of food. So I guess my take on State Property is it is good for it's time, probably the best, but ideally would get replaced by corps.

Back when I played on noble and had automated cottage economies, I also ran environmentalism. I think the corporation costs are not the end of the world - as you can still have huge cottage cities. Goes well with US. Although, I'm half guessing - I haven't tried this since playing Monarch.

Beuracracy + Representation is great if you have some settled specialists. Throw in the great library and things get silly good.

I like to run Caste System after I've whipped graneries, forges, coutrhouses, barracks, sometimes libraries or lighthouses. Sometimes I wait until after guilds. The +1 to workshop I find the best part, not the unlimited artist, merchant, scientist. I usually take the lead on the production graph this way. I should mention that while I do understand the fundementals of whipping, I don't have it figured out inside out the way some people do.

I usually don't run mercantilism unless I'm playing a spirtual leader. It comes too close to Free Market, and doesn't capitalize (literally) on all the $ astronomy brings in, which is also close.

I really like it when I discover feudalism as a SPI leader. Pump out double protective longbowmen for a few turns, then go Beuracracy.

I'm settling great people more than I used to. If I'm playing culture, settle a great artist early in the weakest of the three cities. Settle a merchant in your shrine city (priests are actually probably better 1 less coin, 1 less food but plus 2 hammers than a merchant, I have four settled in my current game, helps get Wall Street put up quicker- which is huge.) And of course scientists in my academy / future oxfod city. Representation with settled specialists is huge. I don't mess with US anymore. I tried it for a turn (post Christo redeemer). The modest production bonus was not worth the hit I took in science.

I love organized religion too. I love SPI leaders because if it works out diplomatically, I love putting up quick unis and factories with it. I've rocked University of Sankore, Apostic Pallace, and Sistine Chapel with this - it is great - even better with SPI leaders. Gets new or conquered cities up and running and useful fast.

I don't rock theorcracy. I like OR and FR too much. For culture wins I want all sorts of religions to spread in my land. Besides the military benefits, I could see it being useful though - if a hostile AI had the AP and you didn't want to be pulled into their diplomatic nonsense.

While it has been rare, nationalism has helped me out of jams that nothing else could have. A SPI leader with some sort of militaristic trait, CHA, PRO or AGG - if I have riflemen I pretty much don't have to worry about anybody. I've neglected military and made it out (by the seat of my pants) in 2 or 3 games like this.

HR when I can get it. Unless I build pyramids, then Representation. If no pyramids, I'll move on to representation later.

Vassalge maybe, for a limited time. Then Beuracracy, and finally Free Speech if I'm going for culture or have tight borders. Free Speech + corps + eifil tower = have fun trying to surprise my border cities and losing your cities land and resources.

Slavery to whip out some basic buildings, then CS to make the lands with plains but no mountains productive. Then Emancipation when over half of the AIs have it (I usually give in when I'm at war.)

Free Market, then State property, then back to free market when / if I have the right great person to find the right corp.

Organized Religion unless the tech race gets competitive or the map is hairy religiously / politically, then FR. I played a game as Breneus where the pangea continent was divided pretty evenly between Hinduism and Budhism. I had random personalities and I couldn't tell who i was going to get along with and who I wasn't, so I built Shezwan Papaya (I know that's not what it's called, sorry for being an insensitive lazy slob). The science bonus was nice, but what was really nice is everyone hating each other but not hating me. For the same reasons, I usually eventually run Free Religion anyways, to get ahead in techs and also to make some allies on the other side of the world.

Sometimes Pacifism - like if I'm Fredrick and have five engineers in my great person farm and just can't wait for Mining Co.

So yeah, this is how I roll. It fits my playing style (which isn't good for all civs, i.e. Spain, Aztecs, others.) It all depends. You can tell from my prefered civics what type of player I am (builder who doesn't tend to kick ass militarily early, although sometimes I do.)

I have gained more insight into how to leverage different civs and different playing styles on this forum listening to how people use different civivs than anything else.

Some people really have this stuff figured out better than me, or at least utilize civics in a powerful, different way, and I really respect it. It's stuff I never really thought of and still haven't mastered or even attempted to even though now I understand the basic idea. I'm thinking of those who truely master slavery or nationalism where food = power and others who rock vassalage / theocracy to raze hell.

But state property isn't just about reduced city maintenance, it's not like the communist government in Civ3. Often times I find the workshop/watermill boost to be even more important.

 

[salty mud]

I like:

Representation - happiness and science boost is always nice, especially in large cities.

Bureaucracy - the commerce and production boost is fantastic, especially if you already have a very strong capital. Saying that, I always switch to Free Speech when given the option. The commerce boost from towns is too good to pass up, as well as double the culture.

Caste System - I like to have a lot of specialists, and I like to choose what they are, so this is handy.

State Property - for obvious reasons. Allows huge empires to flourish and let the money roll in.

Free Religion - happiness and extra science again make this my favourite civic. (Coupled with the fact you will not suffer diplomatic penalties with leaders of a different religion.)

 

[Zeiter]

I'll take representation early if I can get it, but don't under-estimate HR! If you don't get the pyramids, there's a lot you can still do with HR, such as grow your bureaucracy capital to work all of the BFC before you get to constitution, as I did in one of my recent games.

The only thing to watch out for is the "HR-trap," you know, where you become massively-dependent on HR for police-garrison happy faces, and you can't switch out of HR without also having massive unrest or without switching back into slavery as well to whip off all of the excess unhappy citizens. Of course, you could just stay in HR for the whole early and mid game until you get to emancipation, but the purpose of HR is defeated if you are also running slavery (unless you are turbo-overflow-whipping the Globe Theater along with units to compensate for the unhappiness, or unless you are just going nuts with the whip in Monty-like proportions and are always using overflow to produce just gobs of garrison units. But for me, HR means harnessing the power of early big cities, and big cities means easing off the whip).

Recently I've been discovering the power of abusing nationhood with the Kremlin and the Cristo Redentor or the spiritual trait. Plop down some garbage filler cities in the later part of the game (they don't even need resources, just some farmed grasslands are fine to get them up to size 7, although food resources help. Other resources are somewhat irrelevant.) Preferably, get like exactly 3 such cities (if playing on standard map, or 4 if on a large map, etc.), and try to get them tuned to the same growth cycle. Wait for them to grow to size 7. Switch into nationhood. Draft. Switch back out. Wait for them to grow back to size 7. Switch into nationhood. Draft. Switch back out. Do this like every 10 turns. Usually by this point in the game I have like at least 15 excess happy starting out in my new cities (from resources, etc.), so you can do this cycle indefinitely (drafting unhappiness doesn't compound like slavery unhappiness, right? So, with drafting happening at 10-turn intervals, and unhappiness always lasting for 30 turns (on marathon), the most unhappiness one would ever have at one time would be 9 unhappiness from drafting). After 100 turns of this, you've drafted 40 infantry (on a large map) while not even putting a dent on your regular production otherwise.

Personally, the one I like the least would have to be caste system. I don't run hardly any workshops before I get to emancipation. And I always have plenty of slots for specialists from just infrastructure (although my great-people-point pools are always heterogenous, which doesn't really bother me because I'm never running a really really tight slingshot like some people like to do, where I HAVE to get a certain type of great person to bulb. I like the unpredictability and rolling with the punches as the game goes along, so the more GPP of almost any type, the better).

Free religion has really saved me diplomatically on several occasions (you know, two hostile blocks, don't want to get caught in the middle, not sure which side to ally with just yet, waiting to see and keeping my options open...) The happiness and research is icing on the cake. (If it weren't for those, you'd still get the 1-cpt cultural bonus per religion in the city, which is yet one more thing that makes it better than paganism).

I have never used environmentalism. The only one I've never used.

 

[Tephros]

The only civic I never use is free religion. I rarely use universal suffrage unless I'm spiritual or have the Cristo.

My usuals are: Rep, Bureaucracy/Free Religion, Slavery/Emancipation, State Property/Free Market, Organized Religion.

 

[MkLh]

I'll take representation early if I can get it, but don't under-estimate HR! If you don't get the pyramids, there's a lot you can still do with HR, such as grow your bureaucracy capital to work all of the BFC before you get to constitution, as I did in one of my recent games.

The only thing to watch out for is the "HR-trap," you know, where you become massively-dependent on HR for police-garrison happy faces, and you can't switch out of HR without also having massive unrest or without switching back into slavery as well to whip off all of the excess unhappy citizens. Of course, you could just stay in HR for the whole early and mid game until you get to emancipation, but the purpose of HR is defeated if you are also running slavery

HR and slavery do together just well in early game. Often I only want my bureaucracy capital to be really big (+15 size) and can abuse whip in all other cities. HR is often used with Cottage Economy and the only civic to change is the Universal Suffrage in mid game. This indeed causes a happy crash, but it's fixed by rising a culture slider a bit (with theaters and colosseums) and buying all happy buildings. No need to whip all unhappy population away in that point, citizens working with US towns are more valuable.

 

[Joshua368]

Beuracracy + Representation is great if you have some settled specialists. Throw in the great library and things get silly good.

Just for the record, bureaucracy boosts commerce (from cottages and trade routes) and not raw science or gold like you get from specialists and representation. Bureaucracy + specialists is not a very good combo, except for hammers from priests and engineers. Better off with cottages instead.

They are both really powerful civics though.

 

[salty mud]

Any commerce is good commerce, right?