The Boeing Thread

yeah , more of the same . The American Colonial Governor in Ankara says better relationship soonish , with the F-35 issue resolved by the year's end . For the first time ever New Turkey and the US are partners in offence , not just Defence . Sounds really fishy , but presumably a Trumpian term , to be ignored right away . Germans acting as if they are considering , the British believe they have the green light from all 4 partners of the Eurofighter consortium . Reportedly Pentagon cut about 30 odd from 70 odd F-35s they were to buy this year ; with an additional F-35B order , New Turkey can like satisfy Lockmart for 4 years . Even checked what must be an Ukranian newssite , no , we are not resuming F-35 deliveries , we are not in a position to deliver F-35s , like evah , may F-35 fall from the roof and splatter its innards or whatever . Something DID really happen somewhere , eh ?

Moderator Action: @r16 What is the Boeing connection?
 
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No much connection to Boeing, except video about civilian aviation, but very nice video
Is that a Yakovlev MC-21 airliner stalling and pulling out of the stall?
 
09-07-2025.jpg

there is the Norman Conquest , named after Norman Ralph Augustine , in which Lockmart eats up the whole US Aerospace sector on the basis of its domination in the field of Stealth . Northrop Grumman survives because a certain of group of US Navy stuff think competition is nice and Northrop actually beat Lockheed Martin Corporation in the Stealth Bomber competition . Boeing is told to acquire McDonnell Douglas because there is no way Lockmart can otherwise claim complete mastery of fighter aircraft design dominance . The McDD rot as it is envisaged these days could only take over the superbly capable Boeing because it was promised that the Navy would buy an improved F-18 first and a stealth jet to replace it by 2024 . Like this was something really a big thing to promise but Dick Cheney hated the F-14 and this goes back to the Nixon Administration and would go forward to Dabya invading Iraq because his Veep very efficiently buried all contrary advice , specifically those that were provided by this certain group of US Navy stuff . To tell this in plain language is 500 pages of a book , which you in CFC are not going to be reading .

f-35 is Lockmart's moneymaker and route to monopoly . Heavily exported with insane smallprint . To become the sole Western fighter aircraft in due course ... Accepted by some , heavily forced on some , but the thing is , you can't talk of fighter jets in any Western context , either buy it straight or pay for licences invariably tied to it .

may F-35 rot in hell and we will gladly help it go there . Most improbably , most incredibly , most unintelligently , there is something F-35 free , with that certain US Navy retired stuff watching keenly and so on . This was to be a light fighter and like made possible with the glorious mess Lockmart did with its F-35 monopoly . They are talking BS in Washington about a Chinese threat and the Chinese are doing a real military buildup in response , effectively based on the what was the F-35 before Lockmart used its magic to make it a monopoly . The early F-40s became a reality and whatnot during the Trump's first term . Two distinctly differed things mind you . Not exactly different , close but one for USN and one for ... stuff .

every incident is blown out of proportion if it is something normal by the media . Though of course all those accidents are not normal or anything and if you are still going to insist calling the Boeing company as murderers , no Airbus has crashed in this period . You know , for some reason . Do not push r16 for clarity , you might not like it .

trump gets his own fighter jet , which has no place here in this country . Meaning the Europeans are pushing the Eurofighter Typhoon to kill the F-24 which you known has flown or something and calling for the F-35 to be re-instated here , despite r16 having said over his dead body for some reason to stop the F-24 follow-on (the relevant early F-Forty type) .

ukraine has happily followed the British lead in the 1990s and later . They would do their bit in witholding tech transfer and Russia has already bettered anything they could have offered today about 10 years ago . If this makes no sense , why , you are reading an r16 post . But then people are pro-Ukraine and they must be combing for insults and reporting and have trouble in grasping what's said there . An error of machine translation or a human mistake in choosing the not exactly correct word while typing the web article that covers the US Colonial Governor , the Ambraasador assigned by Trump of Lebanese ancestry and fully doing business with the Qataris or the Saudis or the Emirates . If r16 is not delivering F-35s to the world somehow , maybe it is best not to be on it perhaps . The Boeing connection is the US intelligence services and whatever had long promised things that have happened will not happen again .

which of course needs a disclaimer for the casual reader . The posts that follow the one at the top are just a coincidence and not a claim that a killer switch has now been killed or something .
 
So the story is someone just turned off the engines?

Fuel to the engines of the Air India plane that crashed and killed 260 people last month appears to have cut off seconds after the flight took off, a preliminary report has found.

The report by India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau found that switches in the cockpit that controlled fuel moved to a “cutoff” position and suggested that Boeing and engine maker GE had no apparent responsibility for the accident.

It said: “The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 knots IAS [indicated airspeed] at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the engine 1 and engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 1 second.

“The engine N1 and N2 began to decrease from their takeoff values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut off.”

One pilot can be heard on the cockpit voice recorder asking the other why he cut off the fuel. “The other pilot responded that he did not do so,” the report said.

The switches flipped a second apart, the report said, roughly the time it would take to shift one and then the other, according to US aviation expert John Nance. He added that a pilot would normally never turn the switches off in flight, especially as the plane is starting to climb.
 
That is crazy. Can't imagine a more effective and irreversible way of crashing an airliner than cutting off both engines while taking off. Another suicide as the 777 disappeared in the Indian ocean?

The switches are those. You need to pull each switch with some strength and then move it down. Impossible to do it for mistake or accident. There are even two protections at both sides.
switches-325.jpg
 
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Turning those off cannot be done by accident. It takes a set of distinct hand motions to turn them off.
 
Pilot suicide looks like the most likely explanation then?
Well, as I see it that theories main competitors are:
  • Boeing following their recent MO and doing a massive conspiracy to hide their shoddy work
  • The afore mentioned Remote Access Trojan, or some other remote attack upstream of the black box.
I think you are right about the most likely explanation, but not by like an order of magnitude.
 
full report by the year's end ; they will find something then and brag about the false security offered in the interim . But , yes , the Israeli reverses have really messed the timetable . Moderator Action: Stay on topic!
 
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when they discover it was sabotage , they will want to take revenge

[snip] Moderator Action: This thread is about Boeing. Birdjaguar

boeing would rather have me on their side

you will notice ı have been consistent about it and Turkish airliner pilots on the echo chamber mention the devices are working with a single spring and might close down the fuel flow by gravity that pulls them down and whatnot . There is no suicide there
 
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So it would be:

1- Suicide
.
.
.
.
2- Pilot total mental collapse, thought he was parking the plane instead of taking off (drugs? exhaustion?)
3- Boeing cover-up operation to make it look as suicide to hide another failure (unlikely since would need colaboration from Indian authorities and the International Civil Aviation Organization)
.
.
?- Sabotage using a trojan (dont know that is even possible, and apparently the switches were physically manipulated)
 
?- Sabotage using a trojan (dont know that is even possible, and apparently the switches were physically manipulated)
I do not know anything about planes, but if this was a modern car you could produce Controller Area Network signals on the local bus to make the ECU think the switch had been physically manipulated. Something like that is was I imagined was possible on a modern fly by wire plane that the attacker may have had physical access to.
 
So it would be:

1- Suicide
.
.
.
.
2- Pilot total mental collapse, thought he was parking the plane instead of taking off (drugs? exhaustion?)
3- Boeing cover-up operation to make it look as suicide to hide another failure (unlikely since would need colaboration from Indian authorities and the International Civil Aviation Organization)
.
.
?- Sabotage using a trojan (dont know that is even possible, and apparently the switches were physically manipulated)

Turning the fuel off 3 seconds after liftoff.

The plane had no chance. :(

If it was suicide, it will be the 1st time in 10 years someone did it with a plane full of people I think.


Civ Fanatics had a thread on that Germanwings Flight 9525.

 
I do not know anything about planes, but if this was a modern car you could produce Controller Area Network signals on the local bus to make the ECU think the switch had been physically manipulated. Something like that is was I imagined was possible on a modern fly by wire plane that the attacker may have had physical access to.
The preliminary report says one of the pilots (they don't know which one yet) asked the other guy "why did you cut off the fuel?", not "did you cut off the fuel?" probably because he saw the other guy switching them off, even if the other pilot answered "I did not". Also, seconds later the switches were activated again, so looks like they were physically in the off position.

Btw, once both engines are off also are engine electric generators and therefore almost all electric power is loss, excepting power coming from batteries which are only enough to feed the most basic systems. That explains the RAT automatically deploying and all lights coming off according the only survivor. The pilot(s) also tried to activate the APU to turn on the engines again, obviously there was not time to do anything at that altitude/speed, no even for the APU to start running, which requires like a minute, much less to reactivate a stopped turbofan, so not chance to avoid crash in such circumstances.

Maybe one of the pilots wanted to commit suicide and collect life insurance for his family or something. It wouldn't be the first time.
 
The preliminary report says one of the pilots (they don't know which one yet) asked the other guy "why did you cut off the fuel?", not "did you cut off the fuel?" probably because he saw the other guy switching them off, even if the other pilot answered "I did not". Also, seconds later the switches were activated again, so looks like they were physically in the off position.

Btw, once both engines are off also are engine electric generators and therefore almost all electric power is loss, excepting power coming from batteries which are only enough to feed the most basic systems. That explains the RAT automatically deploying and all lights coming off according the only survivor. The pilot(s) also tried to activate the APU to turn on the engines again, obviously there was not time to do anything at that altitude/speed, no even for the APU to start running, which requires like a minute, much less to reactivate a stopped turbofan, so not chance to avoid crash in such circumstances.

Maybe one of the pilots wanted to commit suicide and collect life insurance for his family or something. It wouldn't be the first time.

The question about the fuel cut-off may also be misdirection to throw off the investigation (which may help with life insurance collection)

The turbofans had not completely stopped, yet, so one engine was starting to gain power, but it was too late.
 
Yeah, the voice recording doesn't really prove whether it's the alleged culprit being asked, or if he asked his co-pilot the question to place blame away from himself.

I don't envy the investigators tasked with figuring it out. They'll have to investigate both pilots, their family situation, financials, medical history and so on with a microscope.
 
or pilot in command or whatever , that's the co-pilot building up experience to become a 787 captain one day notices thrust falling with fuel flow stopped . His hands are supposed to be on the controls afterall and eyes glued on the instruments , while the captain would be pardoned for a little daydreaming . After being the alarm and rejecting that he had the cut off the fuel (because , why , is he an idiot ?) it would be the captain to put them on while the second pilot would keep the controls . That most probably happened when they ran out of the runway in some way and and jet efflux made dust fly around . The trickster pilot lying was on the echo chamber on Saturday already with the story of how Boeing had the blackbox records arranged to suggest it was pilot error in the Birgenair crash from the 90s . And ı think another incident in the Netherlands where it was vefy highly suggested that it was pilot error again .

in case Western media says it not , there were 8 Boeing crashes and stuff with deaths since 2010 , with only 2 Airbus incidents , one intentionally crashed as up in this page . And 787 engines simultaneously stopped twice before , both ANA and Jetstar flights landing in Osaka in 2019 albeit in different airports . The first was a Rolls Royce incident in the Trent troubles , had the Coronavirus had not happened 787 by now probably would be offered with a single engine brand . Jetstar incident was likely to end up with full hull loss as people in Australia loaded some biocide or whatever to the fuel with manual calculations and clogged the fuel pipes or whatever .
 
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