The BUY TWO COPIES of Civ 5 petition

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:confused: Are you sure you are in the correct sub-forum?

No unfortunately he's not Civ_King. Earthling is still labouring under the delusion-in the face of *all* the available evidence, that Civ5 is simply going to be CivRev for the PC. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would almost be funny!

Aussie.
 
Seriously, if I end up buying the Collector's Edition from EB in Aus, I'm effectively paying more than twice what North Americans are paying for one copy of the game. :trophy:

I'm not going to buy 2 copies of the game. I think there should be a petition for North Americans saying they'll buy 2 copies of the game but only use 1, as a show of solidarity with civ-players from the rest of the world. :p After all, we are practically subsidising your purchase.
 
With the announcement of layoffs at Firaxis, which are, let's face it, very probably due to money problems somewhere up the chain, I'm starting to get worried.

uh... it's not uncommon to release people after a game is developed, once you don't have anything more to pay them for immediately. I guess it's unusual to do it this early, but I kinda doubt it's a "omg, Firaxis is going under!!!" issue. These types of things are more often "the guys at the top want to buy another ivory backscratcher" issue.

I'm buying one copy of the game. The idea of anyone buying more is hilarious. If you want to give away your money out of charity, you have better options.
 
Civ5 is simply going to be CivRev for the PC.

Tell me who is asking for talking, cartoony leaderheads?

It's not a delusion, it's partly a joke. The OP telling people to buy extra copies of a game that might not even be what everyone enjoys, for the studio to profit, is kinda ridiculous in the first place - and I did point out it would be better along those lines to get more copies of a game you already liked for you and your friends.

It also would be silly to deny that nearly half the threads around here are basically from people who haven't got a clue making suggestions equivalent to porting civ Rev to the PC. Especially the ones who specifically say they want element x from civ Rev in civ 5.

Also, I don't think you could deny civ 5 is looking to be a bigger depature from every previous civ iteration than those before it.

So how about actually presenting your evidence, or at least agreeing to wait on what we see. I've done so before and will make some predictions - I have no doubt civ 5 is going to be a simpler, more streamlined game. Not necessarily bad, but it is what it is:

The size of civ 5 maps will be smaller than civ III maps
The number of units/size of armies in battle will be significantly smaller than previous civ versions
The tech tree will be simpler particularly in ancient times (wait...do we already have guesses on that one...:crazyeye:)

And for a bottom line - more people who played civ Rev or civ Facebook or whatever will actually be the purchasers/consumers of the new game.
 
It also would be silly to deny that nearly half the threads around here are basically from people who haven't got a clue making suggestions equivalent to porting civ Rev to the PC. Especially the ones who specifically say they want element x from civ Rev in civ 5.

You want to provide some links to these supposed posts? All I see are threads from people asking for even *more* complexity, not less. Seems to me you're the one being silly

Also, I don't think you could deny civ 5 is looking to be a bigger depature from every previous civ iteration than those before it.

Hmm, yes I'd agree with that-by increasing the depth of the game, via such things as limited strategic resources, substantially improved combat, truly *unique* civilizations, social policies & giving players greater control over their acquisition of tiles for their empire. Now, you want to provide some evidence to the contrary? Oh & please don't say the leader-heads-they're actually *less* cartoony than they were in Civ4 or Civ3.

So how about actually presenting your evidence, or at least agreeing to wait on what we see. I've done so before and will make some predictions - I have no doubt civ 5 is going to be a simpler, more streamlined game.

You are aware that streamlined & simplified are *not* interchangeable terms? Removing whack-a-mole pollution in Civ4 was a streamlining of the whole pollution system &-I think most people agree-represented a *huge* improvement to the late game-but it certainly wasn't a simplification.

The size of civ 5 maps will be smaller than civ III maps

Again, please provide proof of the above claim-all we've seen to date are mock-ups for demonstration purposes. I do recall similar accusations being made about Civ4 maps, yet I found the maps & game-play to be 1000 times more engaging than the ones Civ3 ever provided.

The number of units/size of armies in battle will be significantly smaller than previous civ versions

This is partly true. The number of units you can have will probably be smaller (not necessarily significantly), but it seems like the number of "men" represented by a unit will be greater (take a look at how many "men" make up a unit, compared to Civ4 or Civ3). Also, this is a *good* thing, because individual units & good strategy are now much important than the uber-simplistic stack-of-doom (funny how someone that rails against simplicity wants to retain one of the most simplistic elements of previous games)!

The tech tree will be simpler particularly in ancient times (wait...do we already have guesses on that one...:crazyeye:)

Again, you want to provide some *proof*? I've seen plenty of screen captures of the tech tree, & the only techs which seem to be missing from the tree are those which have been moved to the Social Policy Tree-where I think they make much more sense.

And for a bottom line - more people who played civ Rev or civ Facebook or whatever will actually be the purchasers/consumers of the new game.

....and yet another claim without the slightest amount of foundation. No doubt you've seen an extensive breakdown of the stats for who is already planning on purchasing Civ5. From the polls of seen here, the bulk of people planning on buying Civ5 are in their 30's to 40's, & thus have probably been playing Civ since it was first released.

My bottom line is that, for all the whining & predictions of doom & "over-simplified" that I've heard, whenever a new version of Civ is released, the predictions have proven to be utterly unfounded. I believe your predictions fall into exactly the same category!

Aussie.
 
No!
I will not buy two copies of civ5 because of your petition, which has thus failed as you predicted. :lol:


Uh...however...I will buy two copies of civ5 because I want to, and since we have 4 civ players in our household that number may rise once prices drop. (if we like the game)

I haven't decided which versions I will buy yet as that will depend on the contents of any limited editions sold in stores.

ditto except there are two people in our house that like to inject civ into our viens.

Face it post starter, this game is going to be a massive hit, best game ever.
 
No unfortunately he's not Civ_King. Earthling is still labouring under the delusion-in the face of *all* the available evidence, that Civ5 is simply going to be CivRev for the PC. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would almost be funny!

Aussie.

whats even more almost funny, is that he admits that he hasn't even played revolutions...
 
Revolution isn't actually a bad game, but yes it is a simplified version of Civ with a few less options here and there, its designed to be played on a console with ease. On a PC you can play a more complicated game with the same ease as you could play a slightly simplified version on a console.
Civ5 from what I've seen so far will not be simplified, a few things have been removed and a few things have been added, trading off religion for example for a more depth combat mechanic. The look of Civ5 from pre-release footage has taken a leap off of Civ Rev's books by making the UI less complicated, also it looks prettier, less boxy. All this isn't simplification, but rather removing over complication. You don't need every button under the sun on the UI if you can have 1 button that brings up several more buttons when needed. This helps "simplify" the look of the game without reducing the content. Which will make it more appealing to first time players as well as old pro's.

This however is swaying from the topic's original point, "Civ is going bankrupt help it", I believe you are wrong thread maker, I believe Civ5 will be a success even without a few Anti-Steam supporters, and that the "Redundancies" have nothing to do with the future of Frixasis or the future of PC gaming, till a console is basically made into a PC it will never replace it. Consoles have thier good points, they are better for certain types of games, some FPS games, All racing games, adventure games. But Strategy... its hard to get good strategical games to function well on a console with its simplified control system. PC's have this in the bag, and the demand for Strategy won't diminish. It has a big enough fan base to support it.
So the whole petition to buy two games is uncessary, but still a good idea, lets get more people involved in Civ5, lets get us some fresh blood.

I personally will be buying two copies, but not because I want to give more money to Frixasis, or because I think thier going broke, I'm doing it because we have 2 Civ players and will need 2 copies. I am however buying 2 Deluxe copies from Steam because Frixasis deserve this extra revenue. I will also buy all DLC (so long as it interests me... I wont buy it if I don't want it.. i.e "new art for the tiny people so they have different clothes on when I SEND THEM TO THIER DOOM," that wouldnt interest me.) More units to send to thier doom however or more Civs to slaughter yeah Ill buy all that too.

I support the "Buy Civ5 even if you disagree with Steam" part though, they deserve your money, infact buy it on Steam, Frixasis gets even more money that way, sure the bad evil corporation Steam will get a cut, but by bypassing your local retail store Frixasis/2k will make more Profit even with a Steam cut of the pie because Steam takes less than a normal retail outlet.
So buy Civ5, I dont care whether Steam is an issue for you, or whether you dislike 1UpT, or if you think Civ5 will be over simplified, Hell I dont even care if you are 8 Years old and your mother doesn't want you getting the next Civ because youll spend every waking hour playing it and will never do your homework. DO BUY CIV 5, DO IT RIGHT NOW, BUY THE MOST EXPENSIVE VERSION YOU CAN, which means we will all be emigrating to Australia, get your stores filled boys, the civ fans are taking over.
 
Does steam really take less than a normal retail outlet though? I can believe the dev/publisher getting a larger profit from Steam sales but wouldn't you have to make assumptions about the operating costs of a retail store before knowing whether or not they are really making more than what steam does? Indeed, if it's to be believed that steam take roughly one third of the revenue (I've seen this claimed for indie titles), it seems quite possible that actually Valve are making more profits off each sale than a usual retailer.

Sure, if you want to support Steam as well, buy it on Steam. If you don't want to support Steam, don't buy it on Steam. I don't think the profit argument carries much weight. Most people will just get it where it's cheapest regardless.
 
Let me just say that I think Civ 5 will sell amazingly well, that Steam-haters are in the extreme minority and that the 20 people who lost their jobs were likely (sadly) redundancies.

Firaxis is doing fine and they will make plenty of money. If you want to support developers by buying multiple copies of a game, I think it'd be a lot better to support an indie developer.
 
Commander Bello

I invite you, using links to documents about our 'consumer rights' to explain to me in full how they are being infringed, and this is not just some kinda vague assumption you've got based on not fully understanding/being scared of Digital Distribution / Rights Management?
Unfortunately you will have to raise this question in one of the respective threads, as you may see below.

Moderator Action: Back to topic please. This is not a steam thread. This thread is about supporting our loved game. Talk about this, not about steam.
 
I really want to give them my money, but I'll have to wait until after release to find out if I can play it if I buy it. The size of the download on registration will determine whether I buy it. I can live with everything else, but on dialup, that required download, if it is too big, is a killer.
 
I've already ordered (and paid - Steam...) the Deluxe Edition of the game, made three of my friends buy it and try to convince anyone i see to do the same. I'm 99% sure I'll buy any expansion they are going to release, too.

But buying the same game twice? Nah...
 
Maybe they were let go because the project is finished. Firaxis is "playing" with our minds.
 
Well, I already pre ordered the Deluxe Edition so I did something already. If you want to guarantee a second copy of Civ V bought is cheaper to did what I did: bought two copies of the Civ IV Complete during the Steam sale at US$10 and gifted away to friends, trying to get them hooked. You know, first hit is free.

Or better yet, buy four copies of civ3 on steam. Thats a pretty awesome game and is only 5 US dollars.
 
firaxis is streamlining jobs and you want to gift them money for it.

interesting idea...
 
My son is also a great fan of Civilization series so I might end up buying two copies of Civ 5 due to Steam. If I buy it all. For the first time I'm not convinced.
 
You want to provide some links to these supposed posts?

Well, besides the many duplicate threads on things like leaders and one-unit-per-tile which constantly come up, some other discussions right on the page include "Spearmen vs. Tank," "Domination Victory" (directly copied from Civ Rev here) and "Immigration and Trade" where many posters are proposing simple/one-rule fits all systems. But really, what other people are arguing doesn't matter too much, it's too late for such ideas to make it into the game, that I'd agree with.

Several of your next points are very wrong though, and I can offer several more examples - removal of tech trading, possibly lack of transparent/understandable diplomacy with the AI, and altered victory conditions being a start.

substantially improved combat

Substantially reduced combat mechanics. Removal of full navies and transport ships. Removal of city defenders. Removal of promotions. One-unit-per-tile limits. I'd be pretty confident in saying there will not be a significant increase in "strategy" compared to previous civ versions - where economic management, stack composition, and more were, in fact, strategy, even if you didn't think or like to use "strategy." At best, the system may allow easier exploitation of the AI, I'd give that point, but not necessarily create any better combat experience for the game. And on larger scale, micromanagement would certainly be crazy.

Also, this is a *good* thing, because individual units & good strategy are now much important than the uber-simplistic stack-of-doom

No, again, you don't really seem to want to acknowledge what "strategy" is. Sitting one unit at a chokepoint, maybe an archer or two behind it, which the AI could be too stupid to overcome, isn't any more "strategy" than building a well organized force of siege and cavalry etc... to conquer enemy cities and countryside. If promotions/army concepts are removed, city defense becomes almost automatic, and most empires don't have many units besides those that would sit around at chokepoints - there's not necessarily going to be any more "strategy" and could very easily be much less.

via such things as limited strategic resources

Yes, with removal of resources and resource types, and reduced management on city-by-city bases of happiness/health or your general citizens' well-being.

social policies

Civics/government types were removed, espionage and some side-mechanics seem to be out, and religion was removed - nothing is really gained here, it's just an altered system. Losing religion alone is a pretty large blow as one of the great successes from civilization IV.

truly *unique* civilizations

Fewer civilizations. Removal of additional leader choices and leader and civilization traits. We're unknown on how the AI will play, it may or may not be more heavy-handed and hamfisted than before - where AI leaders are just too pathetically predictable. Again, basically just replacing new things (unique units/social policies/wonders for each civ, instead of old leaders, leader traits, etc...) but not really any particularly new developments.

giving players greater control over their acquisition of tiles for their empire.

Removal of culture mechanics. And for someone complaining about annoying "complexity," I'm not so sure you'll be happy to hear about or perhaps be one of the players annoyed about having to individually "acquire a tile" hundreds of times per game - that really is tedious and step back when you think about it.

I do recall similar accusations being made about Civ4 maps

You're just wrong about this as far as the facts go. Civ4 had smaller maps - it had a lot of other great changes and mechanics, but the game was not designed with the best balance or actually realized on larger maps. Sure, maybe you enjoy smaller, quicker, and simpler games, and that's fine, but any realistic poster would agree civ III had a larger scale to it, without any mods. But disregarding III vs. IV differences - it's obviously true that Civ 5 has introduced a half-dozen things that will make larger/longer games cripplingly annoying to play - individual tile acquisition, unit bottlenecks, and altered diplomacy to start. And really, I'm happy waiting to release to see what really comes out, but there's not been a shred of evidence anywhere of anything but smaller and quicker maps.

the predictions have proven to be utterly unfounded. I believe your predictions fall into exactly the same category!

No, I'm pretty sure my predictions - some already all but verified really, are right on the spot. The really easy ones could really just see later posters point and laugh at those who disagreed - like the size of average maps/gamespeeds players will play on, there will be a clear answer there. Stuff like the combat system will probably see heated debate for years as after all we still see civ III and civ IV fans duking things out over various changes. But some things - how chokepoints/bottlenecks and exploiting the AI work, how exploration, navies, etc... are handled will probably be worked out - and don't blame me when either the answer is more annoying AI cheating or the AI becoming more of a pushover. We really should know what we're getting, civ 5 isn't another Spore at the least where so many people were so overhyped and disappointed. Again, I stress it doesn't mean the game won't be fun, particularly to those who agree with every type of change, but certainly it won't be the same as previous civ versions. And yes, everything does revolve around a few core factors - making a simpler game in most aspects that in the end they want to sell to as many folks as possible.

And back to the OP, since you and others were still missing the point of many posters I guess - I think it's a rather clear answer. If they want more people to buy the game, they should actually, well, make a better game rather than firing employees and shifting the brand to new products or whatever. I think it will sell well regardless because they are aiming at newer markets if you will, but if it fails it's not a big deal and certainly not a big problem for PC gaming.
 
:p After all, we are practically subsidising your purchase.

They overcharge you guys because you didn't observe the release date on BTS :p
I did appreciate all of the Aussie efforts at Beta testing:hatsoff:


Seriously, isn't your higher cost largely due to software taxes?
 
Substantially reduced combat mechanics. Removal of full navies and transport ships. Removal of city defenders. Removal of promotions. One-unit-per-tile limits. I'd be pretty confident in saying there will not be a significant increase in "strategy" compared to previous civ versions - where economic management, stack composition, and more were, in fact, strategy, even if you didn't think or like to use "strategy." At best, the system may allow easier exploitation of the AI, I'd give that point, but not necessarily create any better combat experience for the game. And on larger scale, micromanagement would certainly be crazy.



No, again, you don't really seem to want to acknowledge what "strategy" is. Sitting one unit at a chokepoint, maybe an archer or two behind it, which the AI could be too stupid to overcome, isn't any more "strategy" than building a well organized force of siege and cavalry etc... to conquer enemy cities and countryside. If promotions/army concepts are removed, city defense becomes almost automatic, and most empires don't have many units besides those that would sit around at chokepoints - there's not necessarily going to be any more "strategy" and could very easily be much less.

Combat mechanics are absolutely not reduced. Arguing for this is incredibly silly. The combat strategy in civ 4 involved the composition of stacks and then where to send your one stack of doom (which city to attack, which tile to defend on), which were all fairly straightforward decisions.

The combat mechanics in civ 5 will involve the army composition, which will be slightly less complex than stack composition because there will be less overall units, but it will be more important to maintain a balanced army between melee, cavalry and archers.

Actual combat in civ 5 will have layers upon layers more depth than that in civ 4. Sure, garrisons are removed, but there was minimal strategy involved in this. One will now have to actually maintain a large front with a reduced amount of units to defend themselves. Unit placement to maxmiize zone of control and support bonuses will be SO important, and will not be able to simply have the same strategy applied to it everytime.

Navies will be so much more important than before. Seeing as they could hardly be more useless in civ4.

I'm honestly flabbergasted by your post.

You list a thousand features that are removed yet you fail to mention the thousand more complex features that are added to replace them that increase the depth.

Culture is much more important now then before. Culture was important for two things in civ4: border cities and the occasional time you went for a cultural victory (and even then only in 3 cities).

Culture is now extremely important in every game and offers a bredth of gameplay choices due to the new social policy system. Hell, its almost as imoprtant as research now.

I don't want to create a wall of text, but I would seriously recommend you rethink your point of view on this topic. If you'd like examles I'd be happy to write a full blown essay and email it to you.
 
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