The Byzantine empire

[Lone Wolf]

What really ended Ottoman Expansion was a series of weak rulers rather than a single battle or war.

Cue Poles with their John Sobieski starting a boring and uninspired flamewarlet here.

the ruling class though of themselves as romans, ruling over the roman empire.

But the ancient Russians called them Greeks!

also, they ruled over many more enthnicities than just greeks.

The Russian empire ruled over many ethnicities too, it was still Russian.

 

[holy king]

But the ancient Russians called them Greeks!

now what have bloody russians to do with anything?

 

[Lone Wolf]

now what have bloody russians to do with anything?

They had many contacts with the empire, surely they gained some knowledge of it.

 

[Eniotna]

the ruling class though of themselves as romans, ruling over the roman empire.

also, they ruled over many more enthnicities than just greeks.

Greeks called themselves roman up until the 18-19th century.

 

[warpus]

Cue Poles with their John Sobieski starting a boring and uninspired flamewarlet here.

Many people don't know this, but it actually wasn't Sobieski who was responsible for the start of the decline of the Ottoman empire, but rather his butler, Marcin Szymowiak. His daring acts of heroism are outlined in the somewhat unknown Polish book: "Marcin Szymowiak: bohater, kucharz, dentysta" (Marcin Szymowiak: hero, cook, dentist)

While Sobieski was charging down the hill towards the Ottoman army with his cavalry of Hussars, Szymowiak was busy putting into plan his own action. Yes, it involved dentistry. You'll have to read the book to find out how.

 

[aelf]

Politically and militarily intriguing to have survived as long as it had. Even if it was dying a slow death, though when that really started I'm not sure, it's impressive enough how slow that proved to be.

While personally i have no read many books about it, apart from some about the last years, after the battle of Matzikert, and i had a vague impression from school, i like the symbolic element of the empire, being a lighthouse of civilization surrounded by barbarism, although i do not, naturally, like the fact that ultimatelly it fell to such barbarism.

The Seljuks were really quite different from the Ottomans, you know.

 

[Gelion]

Kudos to the fact that it managed to postpone its death date an additional 250 years after Constantinople was sacked.

Sacked by fellow Christians? I always thought of these "crusader" people as murerous bandits with an imperial comlex....

 

[Lillefix]

One of the most important of all the western civilizations as far as I'm concerned. They were the ones that kept the traditions from antiquity going(many praise the muslims for guarding the works of the greeks, but they neglect the byzantines). The roman law developed under the Byzantine empire is the foundation of most of the law codes used today. We more or less owe the start of the renaissance to the greek scholars who fled from constantinople after it was conquered by the Ottomans. It was the byzantines who kept the muslims at bay for the entire millennium while westen Europe was in almost disarray. We owe them A LOT.

 

[gugalpm]

Russia took that symbol for herself. It now symbolizes Russia's connections to Europe and Asia (or the double rule of Putin and Medvedev, as you wish).

Russia took that symbol for itself some centuries ago...

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

I always thought of these "crusader" people as murerous bandits with an imperial comlex....

That is pretty funny. Guess what country us "crusaders" think of when we hear that description .

Sort of on topic its interessting the difference to this day between Eastern and Western Europe probably comes from having gotten Christianity from the Greeks and the Roman colonies.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Moderator Action: This thread stands a better chance in WH.

 

[aronnax]

One of the most important of all the western civilizations as far as I'm concerned. They were the ones that kept the traditions from antiquity going(many praise the muslims for guarding the works of the greeks, but they neglect the byzantines). The roman law developed under the Byzantine empire is the foundation of most of the law codes used today. We more or less owe the start of the renaissance to the greek scholars who fled from constantinople after it was conquered by the Ottomans. It was the byzantines who kept the muslims at bay for the entire millennium while westen Europe was in almost disarray. We owe them A LOT.

Oh please. The Byzantines didn't kept Muslims expansion from Latin Europe. They hated the West. They hold had been more than happy to let the Muslims bypass the empire if they promised only to destroy Catholic Europe. Heck the entire Crusade was basically this, just switch Muslim with Catholic, a diplomatic ploy by Constantinople to take one enemy to kill off another enemy while gaining land at little lost.

And the Renaissance started years before the Fall of Constantinople.

 

[Lillefix]

That they disliked the catholics didn't stop them protecting them from the Arabs, simply because of their geographic position. In any case the schism happened almost 400 years after the Mohammed.

And yes Constantinople fell a few decades after the beginning of the Renaissance, but that doesn't mean that Byzanthian scholars weren't partially responsible for the
beginning of it.

 

[Kyriakos]

And the Renaissance started years before the Fall of Constantinople.

So in your mind all the greek scholars left the Byzantine Empire only at 1453? No one left before, from fear of the imminent collapse?

 

[Imrahil91]

And the Renaissance started years before the Fall of Constantinople.

Scholars fled from other parts of the empire too.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I prefer the Hittites. They were awesome.

 

[Gelion]

That is pretty funny. Guess what country us "crusaders" think of when we hear that description .

Not yourself obvisouly

Sort of on topic its interessting the difference to this day between Eastern and Western Europe probably comes from having gotten Christianity from the Greeks and the Roman colonies.

Largely true.

 

[red_elk]

Very interesting empire.
Cradle of orthodoxy.
European shield against muslim expansion.
Huge cultural influence to Rus and Moscow tsardom.

About double-headed eagle, it was adopted as Russian coat-of-arms after marriage of Ivan III and last Byzantium emperor's niece, Sofia Paleolog. In the same time, Constantinople was captured by Ottomans, and a little later, in 1480, Moscow tsardom became independent from Golden Horde. Some people considered these facts as a sign of Byzantium empire's ancestry of Russian state

 

[TheLastOne36]

Byzantines today are an overhyped thing of the past, and was weak, regment of the Roman Empire.

Cilicia is much more interesting.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Many people don't know this, but it actually wasn't Sobieski who was responsible for the start of the decline of the Ottoman empire, but rather his butler, Marcin Szymowiak. His daring acts of heroism are outlined in the somewhat unknown Polish book: "Marcin Szymowiak: bohater, kucharz, dentysta" (Marcin Szymowiak: hero, cook, dentist)

While Sobieski was charging down the hill towards the Ottoman army with his cavalry of Hussars, Szymowiak was busy putting into plan his own action. Yes, it involved dentistry. You'll have to read the book to find out how.

Oh you must say more.