The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991

[El Justo]

Why F-100 super sabre and A-4 skyhawk appear in the game earlier than F-86 Sabre?

Arvln,

i'm not sure why...however, it should be corrected in the update.

also, yes, i have put a city on Borneo for the new version.

 

[El Justo]

C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios

put the scenario there. You can PLAY the scenario by running Civ 3 Conquests and clicking Civ Content once Civilization has already started.

Jeez, El Justo, you're snapping up all the cool historical scenarios! That leaves us Rhye's Mod kids just the Age of Discovery ;p

Haha... stupid slow 3D downloads giggrebnde#&*^#&*&@!

Aeon221,

nice to see ya in the TCW thread

as we know from past experiences, it is really, really hard to stay historically accurate in world-wide type scenarios but i think that we've gotten as close to it as possible for this one.

hopefully, i can read some of your game reports once we finish the update which should be finished soon.

 

[warmwaffles]

El do you want me to post the units that I put pics in for in post 237?

 

[warmwaffles]

Here is what I am talking about where to place the immobile units

 

[El Justo]

Great work! I dont want to know how much time you spend on it. Thank you.

My few suggestions/critic:
Wouldnt it be better to give Amsterdam to the Germans as Hamburg. Then you could give Munich to Warsaw pact as Budapest. Stuttgart could become Munich instead.
Dresden would be better named Prague.
Removing of Hannover could move Berlin more west (one tile above Hannover) making Berlin Warsaw, warsaw Minsk.
Stroudsburg (France) renamed to Strasbourg. It would be nice to name it Zürich (Neutral Alps).
Renaming Split to Belgrad. Renaming Belgrad to Bukarest and give it to Warsaw pact.
Remove Sarajevo and place Wien above it (Neutral Alps).
Remove Thessaloniki and place Sofia (Warsaw) above it.
Ever thought about splitting Warsaw Pact in Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union?
Why are India and the Arab League allied with the Warsaw Pact?
What about making South Africa?
Perhaps Copenhagen to Scandinavia?
Whats the Sense of Scapa?
Ever Thought of Uniting West Europe and Splitting Africa and South America?

Dark Scipio,

well, to be honest, the majority of the time spent (prior to releasing it) was about 4+ months. alot (& i mean ALOT!) of research, mass text entries and a ton of playtesting.

lowlands and w germany have been 'merged' in the upcoming version for a multitude of reasons (production, science, defense, etc)

re your euro revisions:
i'd love to include hungarian cities and austrian ones as well as czech ones but the map (quite small) just won't allow it. speaking of the map, it's Rhye's 134x130 "over-sized europe" map and the 'over-sizing' seems to end right around where the Iron Curtain begins thus preventing me from putting all of the cities & civs that i want to include. i'm not complaining by any means. i swear by Rhye's maps

South Africa is a new civ in the updated version

Copenhagen is now Scandinavian in the updated version

Scapa was included b/c i wanted to boost English production/science, etc as much as possible and cities are the main instrument for that. plus, it was (still is i think) a main naval base for the brits.

i merged lowlands & w germany and also merged portugal & spain in the update version (not finished yet).

Africa is now split up. N Africa/Central Africa/South Africa

South America is now split up also. Colombia/Peru/Venezuela as 1 civ, Brazil as another and Argentina/Chile/Boilivia in the last one.

 

[El Justo]

I question the lack of a certain rather important city called Hong Kong that was a bone of contention between China and the UK until the early 90s

AND the lack of a city in the Falkland Islands!

Without naval bases in those two positions, the UK is HAMSTRUNG! I wish there was a way to simply place a port, rather than having to deal with cities. Its not like EVERY naval facility was also a city... RANT!

Sorry!

Anyway, thats my half pi ;p

heh...good point. i thought of this as well (hong kong) and may still try and see if i can squeeze it in for the brits. it may be tough goin' though b/c of the real lack of space on the map.

i originally had the UK city of Stanley in the falklands but turned it into an Airbase instead b/c, over the course of playtesting, Stanley became a beast of a city on par w/ London, etc. there is cyprus also which was a british possesion until the summer of 1960. as it stands, the UK has an airbase there also (singapore, too).

what a great idea about a "Port"! maybe for civ4...

 

[El Justo]

This is a play test game I have going on a tweaked version I had while El Justo was gone. Basically, the mods I made were to fix bug issues (several mentioned in posts) and I sent this version to El Justo for him to look over and have also been taking notes as well. I also played Italy, China and UK as well and incorporated some info from those positions.

Basically, it is the summer of 1969. There were two earlier wars. The first war was like the third turn of the game and it was a short one. I managed to capture the Korean Capital during this war. This would have dire consequences later. The West Germans put the squeeze on Yugoslavia and the WP and Scandinavia exchanged cities with Murmansk going to Scandinavia and WP picking up Helsinki. SE Asia looses a couple of cities in Burma to the Chinese.

The second war was in 1965 and I was ready to move strong on Cuba and also take a North African port to get a base in Europe. I got two of Cuba's cities and took the North African port before peace broke out. Not much in the way of other changes except the West Germans finish off the Yugoslavs and the Spanish manage to take Riga of all places.

In the next years, I prepare to break out in North Korea and finish off Cuba. I ship just a ton of troops to North Korea and send some troops up to Alaska to take out the Russian naval bases in the Pacific. I finally launch the war in the summer of 1969 just after I get the M1 tanks. On the first turn, I take all of Manchuria and park a huge force outside of Beijing. Havana is secured and Cuba is now in my hands. I also take the next port up in Africa, but not without some casualties. The Chinese don't really have an answer for a pile of M1's, so dig in. The next turn, I take not only Beijing, but 3 more Chinese cities. I also take the Russian port nearest Alaska.

Below is a screen shot of the situation in China. I have just taken the 4 Chinese cities and spot a large force of WP tanks coming to the rescue. In addition to that, the Chinese have a pretty good size force just to the north of Beijing. By the end of the turn, those three stacks of enemy troops are done for (probably a total of 35 units or so). I will wind up resting most of my troops this next turn coming up. No other cities have changed hands yet and the WP defense is holding in Europe. There is a major naval battle off of Denmark with a huge force of WP submarines. Unfortunately for them I have some ships in the area and also have 2 aircraft carriers around as well and those subs are outside of air cover range (or the intercepters did not do their jobs) and after getting worked over by aircraft, my ships move in to finish the job. Unfortunately for me, I find another stack of subs, so my fleet pulls back, but the UK sends in their subs to have some fun as well. There are some lively skirishes in the Med between subs and ships on both sides.

One of the great things about this scenario is that you can get as involved as you want by the decision on which position you play. Want to be a big power broker, play the WP or US or even China can have a big impact. Positions like UK and Italy are also enjoyable and go really fast with the smaller number of pop centers and smaller military.

Klyden,

excellent work my friend!

it's nice to see W Germany/Lowlands taking to the offensive. i had similar occurances w/ Warsaw Pact and Scandinavia trading cities like that.

re Cuba:
i should probably do some play testing w/ them to see what their productivity levels and defense/offense capabilities are like.

re China:
are they strong enough? what type of resistance did you face while taking their cities? one little known fact about china in this scenario is their ability to build an improvement (not a SW or GW) that autopoduces a "People's Armed Policman" unit every 10 turns. however, it is only buildable sometime in the early part of the last era (1976-1989). this is huge b/c every 10 turns, an immobile & free of upkeep unit is spawned. i did this to simulate the unthinkable notion (in RL of course) of an army attempting to invade china as utterly difficult as possible. so, in other words, china stands to become an absolute beast lat in the game.

that's great to see the naval battles and movements. it's always really hard to predict how the AI will not only move their naval vessels around and all but if they'll even build them in the first place! so, this is good news i guess.

i agree about the diversity of civs in TCW. this may lend to a 'good re-playability' aspect for this scenario which is definitely a good thing.

 

[El Justo]

Here is what I am talking about where to place the immobile units

that could be a very good idea Driveby...what does everyone else think?

 

[warmwaffles]

For some reason when I play as W Germany I kill russia china and all the other countries but when I play WP I kill all of europe? on Monarch difficulty with AI agression on the highest thing. Is it just cuz Humans think more logically than the AI? I think the AI produces the cheapest unit possible and how to combat that I thought you should change the shield ratio at which the computer gets like one or two more shields per turn than the human does you know to make it......challenging

 

[El Justo]

For some reason when I play as W Germany I kill russia china and all the other countries but when I play WP I kill all of europe? on Monarch difficulty with AI agression on the highest thing. Is it just cuz Humans think more logically than the AI? I think the AI produces the cheapest unit possible and how to combat that I thought you should change the shield ratio at which the computer gets like one or two more shields per turn than the human does you know to make it......challenging

what do you mean?

yes, the AI is silly.

the AI does go after the cheaper units alot of the time but not always.

i don't know if you can make it so that the AI receives more shields than the human player. in other words, you can't seperate them. i could be wrong but i think this is in the "General Settings" tab in the editor.

 

[warmwaffles]

Look below should explain where it is to be found

 

[El Justo]

oh, i see. i'll keep that in mind if we encounter any other production problems.

btw, do you ever go to shcool? lol

 

[warmwaffles]

Ya make straight A's 4.0 GPA. Sports really help my grades. I plan to be a computer programer, pilot, or computer graphics mostly that is my future.

BTW I finally lost a game. When I played as W Germany I got crushed really bad by the chinese and WP they jumped me around the 50 turn marker. I thought to myself WTF were did all of that armor come from? Think the comp got industrious on me for some strange reason I am going into debug mode to see if I can recreate an event like this. Will get back to you with results.

 

[El Justo]

Ya make straight A's 4.0 GPA. Sports really help my grades. I plan to be a computer programer, pilot, or computer graphics mostly that is my future.

BTW I finally lost a game. When I played as W Germany I got crushed really bad by the chinese and WP they jumped me around the 50 turn marker. I thought to myself WTF were did all of that armor come from? Think the comp got industrious on me for some strange reason I am going into debug mode to see if I can recreate an event like this. Will get back to you with results.

i'm just playin'

i am studying to be a teacher believe it or not.

wow! what difficulty level were you playing on?

i can send you the latest update if you want to try that. i think it's best to play-test the latest version anyhow but it's up to you...

 

[warmwaffles]

Send it!!! Love to play it.

I was playing on Emperor on the highest agression BOY that was a mistake that wasted 45-50 minutes of my life

 

[El Justo]

Send it!!! Love to play it.

I was playing on Emperor on the highest agression BOY that was a mistake that wasted 45-50 minutes of my life

will do.

check your email.

 

[warmwaffles]

Ok I am soooo tired but I got some of the recreation done but still not the same results.

I looked at it in my saved game editor:
It seems WP and China suddenly decided to get all industrious.
But this has only happened 1 out of 20-25 times cuz times when I play one or the other is industrious but this is a first.

Almost all of the towns had built factories and some nuclear plants.

Plus another note China and Russia didn't get along all that well in fact in history they had small skirmishesbetween each other and China would steal stuff right off of the Russian trains. Like ammunition, Guns, and every now and then Armor. Now how can we implement this simple: put a small wonder call plondered russian armor or weapons and give it to the chinese but with a lower attack and defense. I will try to find the site were I found this info.

EDIT: One more thing I know you wont implement M-Units but look at the Fallout Trooper Regiment I love it I might implement it some where....just not here.

 

[El Justo]

some West Germany/Lowlands play-testing results:

- Warsaw Pact (WP) pulled back their 'Iron Curtain' troops on the first 2 turns
- Feb '60: caught a UK spy in Bonn
- Feb '61: WP demands tribute & i relent in order to keep the peace
- Mar '61: China demands tribute & i relent once again
- Apr '61: caught an Israeli spy in Bonn
- Sep '61: Canberra, Australia built "Art of War" GW
- Oct '61: Moscow built "Interplanetary Observatory" GW (doubles science)
- Nov '61: Atlanta built "Rock-n-Roll" GW (boosts happiness/culture)
- Jan '62: Munich is attacked by an 'invisible' unit. i couldn't determine which unit it was b/c only the spy units have the 'invisible' flag but they have the 'hidden nationality' flag also. 'HN' units can't attack cities though
- ERROR: Dutch Barracks in Amsterdam autoproduces 'Portuguese Infantry' units instead of 'Dutch Infantry' units. this will be corrected.
- Feb '62: USA moves an Oriskany class CVN & Adams class DD into German/Flemish waters
- Yugoslavia fortified a stack of 'Serbian Infantry' units between Munich & Odessa on the soviet side.
- Nov '62: WP kept their fairly large Kara Sea fleet at bay outside of Murmansk
- July '63: Arabs declare war on the SE Asians triggering WW3
- Aug '63: a few French armoured divisions arrive near Hanover to defend German soil against soviet aggression
- ERROR - Aug '63: WP city of Warsaw built the 'Berlin Wall' GW i'll have to give the city of Berlin a special pre-placed wonder that'll be required to build the 'Berlin Wall'. this should solve that problem.

a few other thoughts:
the 'Airport' improvement gives the 'trade' bonus as well as the 'veteran air units' flag. maybe split it up w/ maybe an 'Airbase' or 'Airwing' improvement which could make vet air units and require an 'Airport' improvement?

turn times are a tad longer now that there's a few more cities on the map (12 or 15 or so)

WG/Lowlands cities were doing pretty good w/ production levels

the reduced worker rate # for the 'clear pollution' task is very nice compared to the really long amount of time it took in prior versions

science rate was also very good for WG/Lowlands. the new shield costs & min/max turn times for the techs seems to be working nicely. i worked at 90% science/10% happiness and was still in the plus column for my gold/turn (barely though, like +10 or 12)

it's still early in the 'mass declared war' state but i fear that the soviets are about to send a stackof t-55s at me any turn now. city infrastructure for WG/Lowlands is real good but there aren't a whole lot of 'boots on the ground' right yet

i'll post more when i can...

here's a 24 turn play-test as the UK:

Jan '61: Moscow builds "Art of War" GW
Jan '61: Chicago build "Rock-n-Roll" GW
Feb '61: W Germany/Lowlands build "Interplanetary Observatory" GW
Aug '61: Argentina/Chile/Bolivia declare war vs. Brazil
Sept '61: Warsaw Pact declares war vs. USA, etc.

i 'gave in' to enemy tribute demands just to see how the AI reacted against each other.

UK build rates are acceptable.

there was alot of naval movements after war the mass declaration of war.

i set the AI agression rate to its highest setting and it showed.

all of the autopro' errors are now fixed

below is a screen shot of the UK w/ my MI6 (Bond ) chillin' in Scotland, looking for some trouble. i just love that unit!

 

[warmwaffles]

All right I will be back in here a lot more next week end. I have stayed up longer than I should have

I will finish my play testing when I get back from my swim practice. (I hate it but I love to compete)

 

[Metacomet]

Hi,

I was playing with Japan and I noticed that China can take South Korea in one or two turns, maybe you should think to reinforce their positions.

BTW can you think about making a slower version with real city population, culture and improvements. It takes a long time to Japan, one of the most powerful economies in the world, do something. After 3 world wars I'm still creating a decent army, I didn't have the chance to do any military thing because I'm too scared of an invasion .