bugwar
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,246
The Cyberwar Thread
- Thread starter Glassfan
- Start date
Well, more like The Minority Report with computer analysis of data functioning as precogs
I mean, it is not like the government ever abuses their power, right?
True. Yet also it's not like criminals and terrorists don't use the Internet.
In Hollywood everyone is falsely accused. But in the real world someone is committing those crimes. What's better - to prevent a murder or execute the criminal?
bugwar
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,246
Spying on millions of innocents for the chance to aid the conviction of a few is following the slope to tyranny.
What is better - to destroy freedom for the illusion of security, or to as John Adams noted:
"It is more important that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt be punished;
for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world, that all of them cannot be punished.... when innocence itself,
is brought to the bar and condemned, especially to die, the subject will exclaim, 'it is immaterial to me whether
I behave well or ill, for virtue itself is no security.' And if such a sentiment as this were to take hold in the mind
of the subject that would be the end of all security whatsoever."
The information superhighway must have a protective presence just as does the physical highway. A nation's formost duty is the protection of it's people.
Without security, there can be no freedom.
Characteristically obtuse.
I would say that Turkish Internet Security Authorities have a responsibility to protect their citizens from cybercrime in the same way police must protect citizens on the street.
Cyber Security Analysis of Turkey
The Security Strategy Document of Turkey is
summarized as follows. There had been many
meetings, workshops, seminars and conferences,
held in Turkey to discuss the issues initially but the
most compact event was a workshop in Ankara,
Turkey. A Cyber Security Strategy Workshop was
held in Ankara on June 16, 2012, through the
initiative of the Turkish Information Security
Association. The members of this society initially
prepared a draft document which further on, was
shared with private and public institutions. This
document was then discussed in a workshop with
the participation of more than 80 IT security
professionals and experts from public and private
institutions, a draft strategy document was revised
in this workshop and presented to the Ministry of
Transport, Maritime Affairs and Communications
[29]. This Turkish Strategy Document states that
in order to protect the nation’s land, citizens, all
assets, today and future, it is imperative that the
security of the cyber space is ensured.
I would say that Turkish Internet Security Authorities have a responsibility to protect their citizens from cybercrime in the same way police must protect citizens on the street.
Cyber Security Analysis of Turkey
The Security Strategy Document of Turkey is
summarized as follows. There had been many
meetings, workshops, seminars and conferences,
held in Turkey to discuss the issues initially but the
most compact event was a workshop in Ankara,
Turkey. A Cyber Security Strategy Workshop was
held in Ankara on June 16, 2012, through the
initiative of the Turkish Information Security
Association. The members of this society initially
prepared a draft document which further on, was
shared with private and public institutions. This
document was then discussed in a workshop with
the participation of more than 80 IT security
professionals and experts from public and private
institutions, a draft strategy document was revised
in this workshop and presented to the Ministry of
Transport, Maritime Affairs and Communications
[29]. This Turkish Strategy Document states that
in order to protect the nation’s land, citizens, all
assets, today and future, it is imperative that the
security of the cyber space is ensured.
I would say that in Hollywood, the guilty are always punished eventually and the falsely accused are always vindicated eventually. The same is not true of the real world, with both false positives and false negatives.
Ok, but again, is it better to prevent a crime or let it happen and then punish it?
Ideally prevent it, but it's a lot more difficult in practice. Putting the question that way ignores the chance of false positives (and an overemphasis on punishment may lead to a bunch of undesired false negatives).
r16
not deity
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 12,176
but do we have the right to use a Made in Turkey Prism to infiltrate the US and steal anything that befits ? Just like the Chinese who are expected to release a bomber these days ?
Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned - from the, "Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure," school of thought. It just seems a no-brainer that law-enforcement agencies, patrolling the highways and byways, can observe illegal behavior and deter crime. The Internet is a new kind of highway. Crime and terrorism are there. So it follows that law enforcement will patrol there too.
Your false positives and false negatives would be present under any system having to do with human beings. We are imperfect and make mistakes.
Why I'm Not (very) Worried about PRISM
I say, meh.
...and thats why Im not shocked or outraged by the recent leaks of government spying. Ive always assumed that the government was spying. The hackers certainly have been theyve been trying to steal my credit cards, passwords, and other details of my digital life for decades now. If I absolutely dont want something to be stolen, I simply shouldnt inter it into the digital landscape. Period.
Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned - from the, "Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure," school of thought. It just seems a no-brainer that law-enforcement agencies, patrolling the highways and byways, can observe illegal behavior and deter crime. The Internet is a new kind of highway. Crime and terrorism are there. So it follows that law enforcement will patrol there too.
Your false positives and false negatives would be present under any system having to do with human beings. We are imperfect and make mistakes.
Why I'm Not (very) Worried about PRISM
I say, meh.
...and thats why Im not shocked or outraged by the recent leaks of government spying. Ive always assumed that the government was spying. The hackers certainly have been theyve been trying to steal my credit cards, passwords, and other details of my digital life for decades now. If I absolutely dont want something to be stolen, I simply shouldnt inter it into the digital landscape. Period.
That doesn't mean we should put everyone through chemotherapy.
Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned - from the, "Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure," school of thought. It just seems a no-brainer that law-enforcement agencies, patrolling the highways and byways, can observe illegal behavior and deter crime. The Internet is a new kind of highway. Crime and terrorism are there. So it follows that law enforcement will patrol there too.
Your false positives and false negatives would be present under any system having to do with human beings. We are imperfect and make mistakes.
Why I'm Not (very) Worried about PRISM
I say, “meh.”
...and that’s why I’m not shocked or outraged by the recent leaks of government spying. I’ve always assumed that the government was spying. The hackers certainly have been — they’ve been trying to steal my credit cards, passwords, and other details of my digital life for decades now. If I absolutely don’t want something to be stolen, I simply shouldn’t inter it into the digital landscape. Period.
That's absolutely true. Consider this: most people might be willing to tolerate 1-2 false positives, but not 1,000. Or 10,000. Likewise, 1-2 false negatives, but not 10,000. By phrasing the question with the ounce of prevention metaphor, you are wiping away this nuance.
I think plenty of people agree with a focus on prevention, but have some concern about the balance of false positives and negatives.
Senate must past mandatory data breach notification bill: Committee
A standing committee has urged the Senate to pass the Privacy Amendments (Privacy Alerts) Bill 2013, stating that mandatory data breach notifications would benefit both Australian consumers and industry stakeholders.
If passed, the bill will require government agencies and businesses to notify customers of serious data breaches in relation to personal, credit reporting, credit eligibility or tax file number information.
"The committee supports enhanced privacy protection for individuals whose personal information has been accessed by, or disclosed to, a third party as the result of a serious data breach," read the report.
It noted that the Office of the Information Commissioner (OAIC) had provided evidence in its submission that data breaches are under-reported and on the increase within Australia.
The Communications Alliance and Association for Data-driven Marketing and Advertising (ADMA) have also criticised the bill, saying that the legislation will come at a cost to industry and that there has not been enough consultation.
IMO. This last paragraph seems to demonstrate resistance by businesses that are breached, fail to honestly report the breach to consumers, and certainly don't want a law to force them to do so.
A standing committee has urged the Senate to pass the Privacy Amendments (Privacy Alerts) Bill 2013, stating that mandatory data breach notifications would benefit both Australian consumers and industry stakeholders.
If passed, the bill will require government agencies and businesses to notify customers of serious data breaches in relation to personal, credit reporting, credit eligibility or tax file number information.
"The committee supports enhanced privacy protection for individuals whose personal information has been accessed by, or disclosed to, a third party as the result of a serious data breach," read the report.
It noted that the Office of the Information Commissioner (OAIC) had provided evidence in its submission that data breaches are under-reported and on the increase within Australia.
The Communications Alliance and Association for Data-driven Marketing and Advertising (ADMA) have also criticised the bill, saying that the legislation will come at a cost to industry and that there has not been enough consultation.
IMO. This last paragraph seems to demonstrate resistance by businesses that are breached, fail to honestly report the breach to consumers, and certainly don't want a law to force them to do so.
r16
not deity
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 12,176
ı have a couple mail accounts on different providers . One had a warning post that somebody tried to enter my account in Mexico , with a correct password . Truly alarmed , ı rushed to change my password and sure enough the service provider now asks another e-mail adress and a phone number ... Not that ı believe am targeted or something but why do companies need new adresses and stuff so keenly ?
bugwar
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,246
DOD at Work on New Cyber Strategy, Senior Military Advisor Says
WASHINGTON, July 1, 2013 The Defense Department released its first strategy for operating in cyberspace two years ago this month, and officials are at work on the next version, the senior military advisor for cyber to the undersecretary of defense for policy said in Baltimore last week.
Army Maj. Gen. John A. Davis spoke to a lunch audience at the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association International Cyber Symposium, noting that two years might equal 20 in the domain that accommodates distanceless travel.
Senior leaders in the department and beyond the department understand that cyber is a problem [and] cyber is important. Theyve made cyber a priority, and there is a sense of urgency, the general said.
DODs mission is to defend the nation in all domains, but in cyberspace, the department shares its role with other members of the federal cybersecurity team, including the Justice Department and its FBI, the lead for investigation and law enforcement, the general said.
WASHINGTON, July 1, 2013 The Defense Department released its first strategy for operating in cyberspace two years ago this month, and officials are at work on the next version, the senior military advisor for cyber to the undersecretary of defense for policy said in Baltimore last week.
Army Maj. Gen. John A. Davis spoke to a lunch audience at the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association International Cyber Symposium, noting that two years might equal 20 in the domain that accommodates distanceless travel.
Senior leaders in the department and beyond the department understand that cyber is a problem [and] cyber is important. Theyve made cyber a priority, and there is a sense of urgency, the general said.
DODs mission is to defend the nation in all domains, but in cyberspace, the department shares its role with other members of the federal cybersecurity team, including the Justice Department and its FBI, the lead for investigation and law enforcement, the general said.
An alternative view...
Cyberspace is not a combat zone
...Thomas Rid, an expert on cybersecurity and intelligence at the department of war studies at Londons Kings College. His forthcoming books straight-up title, Cyber War Will Not Take Place, is a call for sanity: There is no distinct online world, and the many forms of online crime and mischief are not a threat to our existence or our civilization.
People who understand distributed systems and networks realize this: It may be possible, if hundreds of people work on the problem for years, to damage a single centrifuge facility using a virus but still only if theres also a human sabotage agent placed on site. To destroy or disable an entire countrys or regions infrastructure using lines of code or electromagnetic pulses would be impossible or, at least, given the need for human agents at each target, it would be the same as using bombs to do so (and bombs would be quicker and easier).
This is Dr. Rids crucial message: There is no distinct online world; it is simply part of the world, as much as the telephone or the highway. Defence of vital assets remains important, but there is no distinct cyberspace to be defended it is all of a piece.
The danger, Dr. Rid tells me from his office in London, is that the myth of cyberwar will lead us to believe that online security is a matter for the military a notion that the military, eager for funding, is all too willing to promote.
Whenever a boffin employs the word "myth" to denigrate a concept he's hostile to, be on alert for specious rhetoric and ulterior motives.
Cyberspace is not a combat zone
...Thomas Rid, an expert on cybersecurity and intelligence at the department of war studies at Londons Kings College. His forthcoming books straight-up title, Cyber War Will Not Take Place, is a call for sanity: There is no distinct online world, and the many forms of online crime and mischief are not a threat to our existence or our civilization.
People who understand distributed systems and networks realize this: It may be possible, if hundreds of people work on the problem for years, to damage a single centrifuge facility using a virus but still only if theres also a human sabotage agent placed on site. To destroy or disable an entire countrys or regions infrastructure using lines of code or electromagnetic pulses would be impossible or, at least, given the need for human agents at each target, it would be the same as using bombs to do so (and bombs would be quicker and easier).
This is Dr. Rids crucial message: There is no distinct online world; it is simply part of the world, as much as the telephone or the highway. Defence of vital assets remains important, but there is no distinct cyberspace to be defended it is all of a piece.
The danger, Dr. Rid tells me from his office in London, is that the myth of cyberwar will lead us to believe that online security is a matter for the military a notion that the military, eager for funding, is all too willing to promote.
Whenever a boffin employs the word "myth" to denigrate a concept he's hostile to, be on alert for specious rhetoric and ulterior motives.
Similar threads
