Proposal to End the Russia-Ukraine War

[Crezth]

To the end that I could not find more recent figures on public support for the war—I think it would be reasonable to guess that people against a war would also look unfavorably on the government that is waging it.

Well yeah, but what do public support polls actually have to do with the power that rules Ukraine? Supposedly because they voted it in but they actually stormed it in on the tips of spears right? And even putting that aside, it is a mistake to think aggregate support is indeed general support. It’s aggregate, and the devil is in the details.

 

[Cutlass]

Well yeah, but what do public support polls actually have to do with the power that rules Ukraine? Supposedly because they voted it in but they actually stormed it in on the tips of spears right? And even putting that aside, it is a mistake to think aggregate support is indeed general support. It’s aggregate, and the devil is in the details.

It means that the majority of the people support it. Why shouldn't the majority get to decide?

 

[Joij21]

@Dhoomstriker peace isn't really on the menu at this juncture. Too much emotion and blood thirst needs to burn itself off through a much MUCH higher casualty rate before enough tragedy has collectively built up that it effects even the elites lives whereby via melancholy they can finally come to the table.

Unfortunately this war has taken an ideological turn, meaning it's not really about stuff as in territory, but rather a clash of civilizations if you will. Similar to a cult/religious war that can in essence go on forever so long as there are plenty of people who still believe in the cult/religion that are in power. This is basically a religious war between what is considered "The West" vs "The East", not to mention peace is further complicated by making it so multilaterally dependent rather than just bilaterally between solely Russia and Ukraine. Instead peace now requires literally all of Europe, plus the United States & the aforementioned to all come together and agree on something for peace to be possible. Very difficult when it's so many actors with so many different political agendas.

So again increased tragedy and bloodshed is the way forward to reason. As always it is.

 

[red_elk]

It means that the majority of the people support it. Why shouldn't the majority get to decide?

The actual meaning of the polls is that Zelensky is already the 3-rd most popular politician in Ukraine, despite shutting down all opposition media, cancelling presidential elections, firing Zaluzhny and sending him to work in UK.

 

[amadeus]

Well yeah, but what do public support polls actually have to do with the power that rules Ukraine?

I would think if you map out support for the war and the resistance Ukrainians are putting up, one could draw the conclusion the Russians are not being welcomed as liberators.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

The actual meaning of the polls is that Zelensky is already the 3-rd most popular politician in Ukraine, despite shutting down all opposition media, cancelling presidential elections, firing Zaluzhny and sending him to work in UK.

A fanatical Putin supporter having the gall of giving lessons about freedom of expression deserves the ultimate LOL.

Index

RSF's World Press Freedom Index aims to compare the level of press freedom enjoyed by journalists and media in 180 countries and territories.

rsf.org

Russia
Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, almost all independent media have been banned, blocked and/or declared “foreign agents” or “undesirable organisations”. All others are subject to military censorship.
INDEX 2024: 162/ 180

Ukraine
The war launched by Russia on 24 February 2022 threatens the survival of the Ukrainian media. In this “information war”, Ukraine is on the front line of resistance against the expansion of the Kremlin’s propaganda system."
INDEX 2024: 61/ 180

(And not, more is not precisely better here ..)

 

[saamohod]

The actual meaning of the polls is that Zelensky is already the 3-rd most popular politician in Ukraine

What argument Ivan is trying to make? Do you realize that the first two - Zaluzhny and Budanov - are in no way pro-Russian characters and made their names by kicking Russian asses?

despite shutting down all opposition media

Pro-Kremlin media, Ivan. Only the media that were regurgitating Kremlin's propaganda were shut. Should've been done in 2014 but we're too democratic.

cancelling presidential elections

Ivan playing pretend again as if he's not aware that elections aren't possible in Ukraine during war as per our constitution.

 

[red_elk]

What argument Ivan is trying to make?

Everything's alright, Mykola. Don't be nervous.

 

[saamohod]

Don't be nervous.

Your BS isn't making me nervous, Vanya. I'm kind of used to it.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Too many off topic posts to keep deleting them; Thread closed.