The Day After Judgement Day

[Borachio]

Nah, atheists may be good or bad, but it takes religion to make otherwise good people do evil deeds.

This is a strange view. I've not thought about it in these sorts of terms before. (Though I think I've come across the idea before. Somewhere.)

Are you serious?

Doesn't it just amount to saying that if someone does something bad and they're religious, then their religion is to blame?

Or, if Hitler had been religious - conventionally, that is; I could make a case he was very religious - then his religion would have made him do all that evil stuff?

Nah! I don't get this way of thinking at all.

It's like saying if someone eats shellfish and they do evil stuff then it's the shell fish that's responsible. Or, other things being equal, the lack of shellfish - assuming they've a prohibition on shellfish.

 

[attackfighter]

After imperialism everyone realised that judging foreign cultures based on ones own moral standards is an incredibly ignorant and bigoted thing to do.

Yet here we are, 2013, and the remnants of the stone age persist in debasing -- their historical legacy, of all things -- the old testament, because it doesn't necessarily "mesh well" with their modern notions of civility.

According to the poster above me we should debate whether Hitler's religion was to blame for his actions.

This is the nonsense I put up with.

 

[Borachio]

You are totally mistaken - in the sense of exactly the opposite is true: I maintain that Hitler's religion, or lack of it, had nothing at all to do with his actions.

And the same, I suggest, is true for religious people, to some extent. (Clearly those whose religion prohibits them from eating shellfish, who would otherwise eat shellfish, are influenced by their religion.)

But jihadists, and others, just have an atavistic drive to kill other people instead of a religious conviction to do so, imo.

 

[El_Machinae]

Facile/false historical 'evidence' is both the cause and effect of atheism.

Yeah, I can see how that could be true. At least my cause, in any case. The false historicity of the Bible (compounded with people's belief in those histories) was probably an important factor in my loss of faith.

 

[Borachio]

That's a good point: how can false historical evidence be the effect of atheism?

If it wasn't for atheism there'd be no false historical evidence?

 

[Cutlass]

That's a good point: how can false historical evidence be the effect of atheism?

If it wasn't for atheism there'd be no false historical evidence?

Basically, atheism is one of those things that people are so utterly incensed about that they feel no compulsion to attack it with any form of truth or ethics at all. Any lie is justified, because the perceived evil is just so great.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

If it weren't for atheism then there would be different false historical evidence. It is one of many concepts about which bias (either for or against) can lead men to dishonesty.

 

[Aroddo]

No. Just no.

Yes. Live with it. Ancient jews weren't angels. 66 years after Jesus death there still were no "Christians" around. However, there were many jews who took up arms and rebelled against the romans, slaughtering everyone good enough for God.
Mind you, the jews were no better or worse than most other tribes at that time. Genocide was jolly good, as long as it hit the other guys.

In response Emperor Nero sicked a huge army of soldiers on the now independent jewish kingdom, crushing all resistance in the whole countryside before marching on Jerusalm ... where the ews had nothing better to do than tear themselves apart in a civil war.
Eventually Jerusalem fell and the romans put the city to the torch.

From all accounts the ancient jews were the spitting image of "modern" Taliban.

Facile/false historical 'evidence' is both the cause and effect of atheism.

Unlike the bible, historic evidence is evidence based.
I don't blame the Bible authors, however. They didn't intend to write a history book but a propaganda piece ... and in that they succeeded beyond all expectations, as history has proven.

 

[Lord Baal]

Yes. Live with it. Ancient jews weren't angels. 66 years after Jesus death there still were no "Christians" around. However, there were many jews who took up arms and rebelled against the romans, slaughtering everyone good enough for God.
Mind you, the jews were no better or worse than most other tribes at that time. Genocide was jolly good, as long as it hit the other guys.

In response Emperor Nero sicked a huge army of soldiers on the now independent jewish kingdom, crushing all resistance in the whole countryside before marching on Jerusalm ... where the ews had nothing better to do than tear themselves apart in a civil war.
Eventually Jerusalem fell and the romans put the city to the torch.

From all accounts the ancient jews were the spitting image of "modern" Taliban.


Unlike the bible, historic evidence is evidence based.
I don't blame the Bible authors, however. They didn't intend to write a history book but a propaganda piece ... and in that they succeeded beyond all expectations, as history has proven.

You don't actually know any history, do you? Christianity was a small but growing sect of Judaism before the Revolt. It took four years for the Romans to crush said revolt because they decided to have their own civil war during it. The comparison of Jews, an incredibly widespread religious affiliation with any number of sub-groups, dissenters and converts, as "the spitting image of the 'modern' Taliban" is both inaccurate and offensive in the extreme.

It's nice to see that Gibbon's propaganda piece, while having not lasted as long as the Bible, is still going strong. Especially as it has considerably fewer positives.

 

[timtofly]

You all make it sound like atheism was only the product of Abrahamic religions. It would seem that even pagans would disagree with that, since atheism could be the rejection of everything spiritual and just another term for materialism.

Perhaps the Bible gets things wrong, but maybe the authors realized what spirituality was and focused it down into one word God. This focus led to the ability of humans to even figure out materialism and the complete absence of the spiritual. Perhaps humans will never box themselves totally into a materialistic corner, but it could be possible through education and the total abandonment of anything spiritual.

There was an old world and it seems to have disappeared totally from our collective memory even though it's remnants are all around us. Who knows what caused their judgment day?

 

[Borachio]

Yes, indeed. Many of the Ancient Greeks were atheists. Presumably before they had any contact with the Jewish religion.

I'm not sure I'd equate atheism with the rejection of everything spiritual, though. But of course it depends what you mean by spiritual.

edit: but yeah, I suppose taking the usual sense of the world and not going into the matter very deeply, I'd say I can see what you mean.

(I don't want to find myself confronted by a lot of angry atheists denying they're anything like "spiritual".)

 

[timtofly]

There are some who would say tobacco, drugs, and sex would be considered spiritual, but most just see the empirical side of those things.

 

[Rashiminos]

Horsecrap. They are the same God.

The power of the arguably defunct Roman empire to influence the minds of the laity is ever-present. I should think such a statement is an invitation to conversion, in your case.

 

[Wrymouth3]

Old Testament God and New Testament God don't really work well together. Dude seems schizophrenic.

According to Marcion, Old Testament God was the biggest douche in the world and is a completely different God. Needless to say, this man is the most legitimate in describing the end of the world:


Link to video.

 

[Lord Baal]

According to Marcion, Old Testament God was the biggest douche in the world and is a completely different God. Needless to say, this man is the most legitimate in describing the end of the world:


Link to video.

I remember his debut. It was awesome. 97 punches in a 212 second match.

The God of Abraham is both the Jewish and Christian god. The Islamic God too, for that matter. That these different religions believe different things about their god does not alter the fact that they believe in the same god. One might as well say that the two major ranches of Buddhism worship a different Buddha.

 

[gangleri2001]

The Day After Judgement Day

It will be...

Spoiler :

Link to video.

 

[Rashiminos]

The God of Abraham is both the Jewish and Christian god. The Islamic God too, for that matter. That these different religions believe different things about their god does not alter the fact that they believe in the same god.

Only a part-time devotee, got it.

One might as well say that the two major ranches of Buddhism worship a different Buddha.

*facepalm*

 

[AdamCrock]

"- What happened here ?!
- The judgement day happened !"
(John Connor)

Terminator

 

[Lord Baal]

Only a part-time devotee, got it.

*facepalm*

I am well aware that Buddhists aren't meant to worship the Buddha. I have still met some who do. When people resort to smilies, images and gifs, it tends to mean they don't actually have an argument.

Regardless, that is not the point, which you have, as usual, refused to actually address, instead resorting to trollish language in a sad, pathetic attempt to get a little attention. The Abrahamic religions worship the same god, all the Buddhist offshoots venerate the Buddha, all Marxists masturbate furiously to Das Kapital.

 

[Rashiminos]

Regardless, that is not the point, which you have, as usual, refused to actually address, instead resorting to trollish language in a sad, pathetic attempt to get a little attention.

Did you not claim to be a Jew in another thread? Are you not, in this thread, attesting to the veracity of the 'God' (and Son) of the Bible (and the Qu'ran, now that you've added it) in this thread? Does that not imply a necessary religious change on your part? I addressed the point succinctly in my other post. So far, your proclaimed faith does not match your proclaimed view. I addressed another point in both the "Adam and Eve" thread and the "Read the Bible thread."

Spoiler :

Of course, if one were capable of acting according to his {mistaken} viewpoint {about me}, then he'd do as he said he would do before.

The Abrahamic religions worship the same god,

Jesus's tribulations with the Pharisees illustrate his conflicts with Orthodox Judaism. Even though these religions may agree on a monotheistic principal, the details are no small matter as numerous episodes of violence bear witness to...

all the Buddhist offshoots venerate the Buddha,

Buddha is not considered to be a deity. His teachings are not considered perfect, and are subject to expansion, elaboration, and revision. That there are multiple paths for exploring those branching from the path Buddha described isn't a reason to not acknowledge the earlier contribution.

all Marxists masturbate furiously to Das Kapital.

Another foundational work.