The Deity Challenge Line-up #17 - Germany

[Fluphen Azine]

Well chances are I'll get wiped out (and in your game it looked like Ethiopia was about to destroy you too... although what happened to my Mayan wall that I so carefully planted? Somehow the city name became Duisberg) so don't get your hopes up on me... I am not used to wide starts esp. if raging barbs are on...

@kb27787

Spoiler :

You should not get wiped out. Ethiopia and all the Civs are very friendly from my turn 81 start. I used the Vikings to attack everyone from 2 CS's to all Civs in my original game. I also saved one of his workers from a barb camp and since the rest of the world hated him I was his only DOF until late in the game when I decided I wanted his land and attacked with Rocket Artillery!

With your Turn 80 save... I immediately put Denmark to war with CS's and Pacal. I did not like those cities in my face! Denmark Took down Hamburg and Razed it later building his own city! He also destroyed Pacal in very few turns. I put him to war with Hawaii as well and Hong Kong Captured Hawaii's Capital of all things! I love that lol a CS in control of a Capital the whole game!

So when I got Artillery I attacked Denmark and my CS (KL) took down two of Denmarks cities while I took down his Capital. Later I founded my 5th city Hamburg against the mountain and got the 2 gold and 1 dye hexes! The rest was histroy!

 

[Shark Diver]

F.A. You are having TOO much fun with the t80 start thingie. Wish I had time to join in.

I suppose the last couple of posts probably belong over on that thread, but since it's not detracting from anything DCL and only improving overall play, I don't think anyone will mind too much. Only reason I mentioned it is that I had to double-check to make sure I was reading the right thread. Confused myself……..

My absence from these parts begins early tomorrow morning, but will try to post the promised IDS Dutch start…….it definitely qualifies as "interesting". Wish I had finished up the DCL Dutch game by now, but never found the solid 3+ uninterrupted hours that is going to require.

 

[kb27787]

@kb27787

Spoiler :

You should not get wiped out. Ethiopia and all the Civs are very friendly from my turn 81 start. I used the Vikings to attack everyone from 2 CS's to all Civs in my original game. I also saved one of his workers from a barb camp and since the rest of the world hated him I was his only DOF until late in the game when I decided I wanted his land and attacked with Rocket Artillery!

With your Turn 80 save... I immediately put Denmark to war with CS's and Pacal. I did not like those cities in my face! Denmark Took down Hamburg and Razed it later building his own city! He also destroyed Pacal in very few turns. I put him to war with Hawaii as well and Hong Kong Captured Hawaii's Capital of all things! I love that lol a CS in control of a Capital the whole game!

So when I got Artillery I attacked Denmark and my CS (KL) took down two of Denmarks cities while I took down his Capital. Later I founded my 5th city Hamburg against the mountain and got the 2 gold and 1 dye hexes! The rest was histroy!

Spoiler :

Well, I don't mean right away of course, but say 100 turns later he'll probably wipe me out unless I keep bribing him... (and good thing Russia is still alive in your save because in mine she was gone already)

I have started playing and needless to say I sold some *ahem* stuff... and constructed a new wall of my own... I think I can manage SV (maybe) although I wonder why you didn't want Cerro de Potossi. (btw temple in 31 turns when you need more workers? Granary when your empire is unhappy? Library for a city that is size 1 basically paying 2 gpt for half a beaker??? SOLD! DOWNSIZED!) At the same turn number I was at double your beakers... so medieval wonders are out of the question here.

In any case, given Berlin's location, CV is probably impossible for me (at least peacefully); I've seen a lot of people's saves, but you guys are so blinded by marble (a measly 15% to MEDIEVAL wonders which given your play style you are never going to get) wanting it in the 3rd ring so much you forgot about hydro plant... and +25% TR gold from being next to a river... and more grassland river farms by moving further north. That is not a city which will be building world wonders easily and will struggle to grow beyond 25-30ish unless you beeline fertilizer.

Also you founded satellite cities that will struggle to grow beyond size 15-20... So they will certainly not be building opera houses while still getting the science buildings. So I sold them

 

[consentient]

Hey KB, nice victory. Any chance you can be persuaded to make an LP?

Also, can you clarify exactly what you mean by 'no bribes'? The story that unfolds through the pictures seems like it would have to require some deals to execute, no? (I'm not calling you a liar, as I said, I'm not clear on what the term means to you)

 

[kb27787]

Hey KB, nice victory. Any chance you can be persuaded to make an LP?

Also, can you clarify exactly what you mean by 'no bribes'? The story that unfolds through the pictures seems like it would have to require some deals to execute, no? (I'm not calling you a liar, as I said, I'm not clear on what the term means to you)

no war bribes is what I mean. (so if someone comes to me to wipe me out, then I count it as my loss if I cannot block, or if a runaway runs away then I resolve not to send the warmonger next door after them). To be exact, no putting "declare war on" on either side of the table when negotiating. If people fight, then it's because they want to.

I did bribe for people to make PEACE (going for the peace prize achievement) however, once.

 

[consentient]

@KB

Spoiler :

OK I understand now. So how exactly did you get Haile involved. For me this was the turning point of your game. Had I tried to play peaceful and use similar 'barricade cities' approach, I would never have thought of getting him involved?

 

[Fluphen Azine]

F.A. You are having TOO much fun with the t80 start thingie. Wish I had time to join in.

I suppose the last couple of posts probably belong over on that thread, but since it's not detracting from anything DCL and only improving overall play, I don't think anyone will mind too much. Only reason I mentioned it is that I had to double-check to make sure I was reading the right thread. Confused myself……..

I was pretty sure that I specified what I was talking about before I wrote about it. You are probably right about it belonging on the other thread. I will make an attempt not to post any more turn 80 remarks here. Remember... this tag team style of play was not my idea! I never even thought of it. kb27787 mentioned it and others thought it was a good idea. I took it one step further by actually getting it started. I think it compensates the DCL and IDS. I actually asked for people to only post games from these two and exclude all other save files. This is to help both the DCL and IDS. I was hoping some players who don't play Deity would get involved. Even if they feel they can't finish a Deity game it is not hard to get an empire started with only 80 turns and they can be finished with it from that point or they can try to play someones stronger starting position like kbs! He didn't have a lot of cities up but his infrastructure was really good and it wasn't hard to expand with his start. He also had most of the world in love with him so if some new Deity Player was to try... he/she might not have as hard of a time compared to if they started at turn 0.

Either way it is all in fun as is almost everything about the game. I see people calling themselves pros in this game all the time and I do not consider myself a pro unless I am making cash from this game which I am not. I beat someone the other day in 1v1 MP who says he can win with any Civ because he is a pro since he has over 3k in recorded hours on steam! Nonsense I told him. I have 2600 on steam and another 6000 or so unrecorded. This does not mean a thing. I still am not a very good player just because I have logged many hours!

About the posting on the wrong thread or posting threads that don't belong on strategy and tips... I see this happen all the time. I had a thread on here that was titled ("Worst Civ in the Game"). This thread had plenty of strategy and tips (IMHO) and got moved to the General Forum section. No problem I can understand that but when I see other threads on strategy and tips not having nearly as much strategy or tips inside of them as this thread did I am not sure what to think. A case could be made that Game Series Threads do not really belong in this section as well.

I am only trying to help make DCL/ICL/IDS threads stronger. I post up almost every game I play win or lose and give plenty of details. I notice players who lose usually do not post or they just say I lost because I couldn't pull enough spt and I decided to resign. I do not see how that helps anyone. I think one should be just as proud of trying and failing as they are when they try and succeed but our society does not reward losing! Of course these are just my opinions and do not add up to jack squat which is why I am going to end up living in a van...

 

[kb27787]

@KB

Spoiler :

OK I understand now. So how exactly did you get Haile involved. For me this was the turning point of your game. Had I tried to play peaceful and use similar 'barricade cities' approach, I would never have thought of getting him involved?

Spoiler :

I didn't think of it either, as I said, I let the AIs do whatever they want. But after he captured Palenque and got another city in a peace deal, then afterwards later he Dow'd again, I simply decided to let him finally have open borders and capture Maya's cities through the west (I feared Maya would make peace with the Vikings eventually and give away those cities and I would find myself Harald's neighbor) I was also afraid that since now Ethiopia and the Vikings had touching borders, the Vikings would DoW Ethiopia and capture that isolated puppet city then he'd be MY neighbor. So anyway, I opened my borders so Hally could get his troops there efficiently.

Different ideologies is one thing... Hally went autocracy (and AIs who get autocracy tend to warmonger more than their usual flavor); the ideologies went kinda like this in order: Me freedom, England Order, Egypt Autocracy, Maya Order, then Polynesia Freedom, then it was Hally's turn to pick because seems he was the only one with no coal and had to enter modern to get it, of course since he has a lot of cpt and tpt his AI flavor decided based on the free one early adopter tenet.
Of course, then afterwards Harry picked autocracy too.

Another thing they both were wondermongers so perhaps he wants the wonders.

Anyway Hally denounced Pacal before that (Pacal had denounce-backstabbed Egypt for some reason who had been a mutual friend of ours, breaking down our circle of friendship). When one AI is at war the others tend to pile on him. Since the Vikings were already beating him up, Egypt (despite being miles away) and even Polynesia joined in the DoW although they never really showed up with their troops.

Although that was hardly a turning point (in my favor anyway) since I could just block Pacal's cities forever and keep myself Viking-free as long as he was pleased to give me Open Borders and not make peace (Harald is quite stubborn anyway I was never able to get him to make peace); if anything it made the win much slower as Hally took Palenque and the wonders in it (however there is no way my troops could've made it all the way to block the Ethiopia-Maya border in the north). Like Harald, he had no desire to make peace for some reason otherwise I would've mediated the first time.

 

[Benzy19]

Forgot to mention in my last post that the Hanse is actually super powerful. I never had played Germany before because I thought the barbarian recruitment UA was pretty meh since Deity AI usually take it to them and never read the fine print of the UB. The 5% production from each city-state trade route was huge.

Spoiler :

I had 35% modifier(7 trade routes) in Berlin plus the workshop(10%) and factory(10%), with religious community from Ethiopia's religion(15%). I was rocking 70% production for most of the game in my capital plus the 15% from nuclear plant late game with 50% towards spaceship parts from Hubble I was building parts in 5-6 turns which kind of made Freedom useless as I could have definitely used the 25% science boost from factory considering having only 3 cities but SoL was nice.

Too bad I was so far behind Russia/England in tech if not I'd actually would have been able to hard build wonders. Still was probably one of my favorite games minus the savage using 5 citadels on me.

 

[sun8119]

Went SV and finished on T266.

Spoiler :

Started 4 cities by T80, bought library in the 4th city. NC college was done around T90. Harald was naturally aggressive, I stole his workers and kept harassing his troops and lands for some time. Then made a good peace deal but later on around T150 I bribed him to attack Maya and while his troops were away I took Copenhagen with Xbows and he was pretty much finished.

England slowly ate Egyptians and Polynesians. Ethiopians killed Mayans with my bribes. There was little love between other civs. I, however, managed to keep good relations except with Denmark and later Russia.

Could not use bonus from trade routes with CS cause of embargo. WF was won by me before T160 and this must have been one of the earliest turns it had been proposed - T118. Later on it was turtling to the SV with the help of Freedom and a few more bribes to let AI fight. All parts were bought. I had 2 GS from faith and 2 RA with Ethiopia at the end.

Wonders (very few actually):
Sistine, SoL, Hubble, Big Ben, and Oxford. Occupied SoZ and Terracota Army in Copenhagen.

Policies: Full Trad, Rationalism, patronage opener, Commerce right hand tree.
Ideology: Freedom
Religion: Pantheon +4 culture from natural wonders; The rest came from Ethiopia.

Thanks for the map.

Time for Immortal France or DCL #1 (which I did not play) domination

 

[consentient]

Congratulations on your win with those nice big cities, sun8119

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Finally won this one rather late as usual for me

Spoiler :

Ancient/Classical Era : A nice surprise and a horned barbarian
I moved the settler to the river of course but settled next to the stone rather than on the hill (tough choice). Warrior started exploring roughly east and this proved to be a very lucky choice

Spoiler :

I was so impressed by El Cheatrado right next to my starting position that i didn't even notice the CS border. I took the ruin and crossed the river and quickly met some barbarians

Spoiler :

Woops, looks like those were not just average barbarians

Cap was building 2 scouts while i was teching to archery (an experiment to try and take as many camps as possible). I bought a settler at pop 2 and settled right next to ED on the hill (nice spot with 2 luxes), bought the plain-wheat tile and improved it with Harold's my worker. Hamburg started building archers as soon as i got the tech, i stared working ED for culture at pop2, at least Hamburg would still grow.
Since i had a second city very fast and it was producing archers, i decided to try something else at cap (also i had a scout upgrade)

Spoiler :

A few more archers followed. I took the scout-archer and the warrior and soon a second archer on barb hunting. Took some time as i did not open Honor but i cleared the area and got 2 brutes and an Axeman out of 6 camps. 50% conversion, better than usual
I decided to go tradition-patronage as ED would lead me to open a new tree before Renaissance and Hanse would synergise with Patronage. Oligarchy would also help defend as Harold would not talk about peace (most AIs will offer peace 10 turns or so after a worker capture, but not old psycho).

I got a lucky faith ruin shortly after T20 and took one with nature. Proved a great choice as i got 4th religion and Mosques were still available. Took Initiation Rites for early gold.

Queued tech for pottery>masonry>phylo>contruction. Forgot Animal Husbandry at first and researched it when i realized. First TR went to Haile for Science.

I built my 2 cities once i decided i had enough workers and got Philosophy in turn 60ish. Built NC at cap quickly and then expanded. I had money from selling spices to almost everyone and some pillaging at Harold so i bought one settler, built a second one, and bought a third later. Went for a 5 cities tradition game. Munich (3rd city) went on a hill west of Harald, Cologne was settled by the mountains near Cerro de Potosi but not on the coast (i already knew England was in the game). This was a very easy to defend position in case she wanted to invade me. Finally Frankfurt went on the tundra hills with plenty of sheeps east of Melbourne. Coastal so i could build ships. In the end it was my best city.

Sorry, i forgot to take screenshots for most of the game

I had to fend of multiple attacks from Harold but he never assembled a good army as he was attacking over and over. Eventually Cathy DoWed and eradicated him but not before i offered shelter to more of his workers. I was worried she might go for me after that so i offered her a horse (thanks Budweiser for this trick).

Medieval Era : Building an empire

Soon after Cathy finished Harold, she was denouced by everyone (apart from me) and then every AI dogpiled her. I thought this would keep her occupied and i was quite safe between her and a very friendly Haile so i switched to turtling mode and built my empire. Most trade routes were directed towards my capital but i always had one to a CS as they kept asking me for trade.

Tech was Civil Service>Education>Banking to open Renaissance. I kept trading spices with everyone and then some marble and silver. I was very happy without even building a single colosseum Everyone was friendly with me apart from Lizzy of course. She went runaway during medieval era as she was really safe at her end of the world with only a rather peaceful Ramsesses nearby.

Cathy was really tough. Despite being at war with every AI she only lost single city to Kamy and eventually, one by one, she made peace with everyone.

Lizzy entered Renaissance while i still hadn't started Bancking and i was worried because she had opened Patronage as usual (no other AI had) but tech leader was Cathy who had recovered from all her wars, so i sent my spy to London. Turns out Lizzy had gone Navigation for her ships and delayed Bancking. I got a couple free techs from her.

Oh, my religion was still unimproved because every AI had improved very fast so nobody could take any more belief from me. I wanted to build Mosques and spread to my cities with Missionaries before renaissance. The GP would not cost more in a later era.

By the end of Medieval, as i was researching Bancking i stared sending all of my TRs to CSs to prepare for the Hanse.

Renaissance Era : Trying to catch up

I bought a Hanse in Berlin as soon as i got Bancking and built a 5th Caravan at Hamburg while Berlin started Forbidden Palace. I switched focus to and stopped working specialists to get it as soon as possible. Glad i did cause Lizzy got bancking about the same time as me as my spy showed me, unfortunately for her she built a bank first and i beat her to FB. Spy moved to Lhassa then as Lizzy was now tech leader and i wanted to start turning CS away from her (she had most of them by now).

Finally improved religion and took Sword into Plowshares and Printing Press (AIs had been really cool leaving this one for me).

Tech was straight to Industrialisation for early Ideology. I proposed the culture from NW resolution (can't remember the name) as i wasn't sure i could get ideology in time for Worlds Fair but Haile did propose Worlds Fair. I started producing it in all my cities as soon as it showed up while saving money for Factories, needed more than 3000 without commerce.

Indistrial/Modern Era : Can't really catch up in tech

I finally won Worlds Fair slightly after Industrial Era but the only coal was outside my borders on a forested hill. Took me too much time to mine it so free SP and first SP from boosted culture went into Rationalism. In the end i really needed that so that's fine.
Finally got my coal, bought 3 factories cash and took Freedom. I had saved 2 great writers and was in a golden age so culture went fast. I could get to treaty orgnisation by the end of the 20 turns. I used 2 artists to make the GA last longer (12 turns with ideology is nice) and really started to take CS away from Lizzy.

Lizzy really went runaway during Industrial era. She took most of Egypt in something like 10 turns and left Ramsesses with a single city.
Cathy went Warmonger again and attacked Pacal but he managed to push her back.
Haile was really cool and Kamy went wonder crazy with all the Renaissance cultural wonders.

1st World Congress election occured too early. Lizzy still had most of the CS and even with Forbidden Palace i couldn't get myself elected so i voted Pacal. Take this Lizzy!
The old guy was really pleased, then he proposed Embargo City States I sent him a Diplomat and asked kindly. Finally he voted against his own proposal

Finally, Lizzy entered modern slightly before me (science wasn't really good) but i had took most of her CS away from her with spies, Trade Routes and bribes. She went order and this was great for me as she wouldn't have the tools to fight me on the CS front.
Cathy was next and went Autocracy. Not really a surprise. She attacked Pacal again and wiped one of his cities.
Haile went Freedom which was great for me as it would make him even more friendly and help against England's influence (i had some digs, Eifel Tower and Great Works of Music to help me but she was like 86 when i was 26.

At some point i was tech leader during early Modern but not very long. Cathy took the lead again and wouldn't loose it till the end.

Finally, Ramsesses and Pacal went Ideology and with 1 and 2 cities, they choose Freedom. Yeah. Too bad Lizzy considered it was Ramsesses last insult. The very next turn she DoWs him and 2 turns later he's gone

I had most of the CSs then. Geneva had been taken down by England and another religious CS was still allied with Pacal but not for long. A CS ally had gifted me a Merchant of Venice. Those guys give you 60 when used as conventional merchants.

Atomic/Information Era : Plan is proceeding perfec .... WHAT

I'm still 2nd slightly behind Cathy in tech but i have all the CS allied. I've been able to get Freedom as World Ideology (thanks Haile and Pacal) and to force my religion as World Religion (thanks myself and myself). Nobody even cares about CS anymore and i have 500+ with some of them, and nearly 200 with my least loayl ally.

Cathy goes bad once again. "My words are backed by nuclear weapons" shes says before she DoWs Pacal for the 3rd or 4th time in the game. This time she's clearly ahead of him but the old guy won't go down without a fight. I've seen Mayan Knights try to defend their land. I couldn't really help him as my own cities were defended by Composite Bowmen . He resisted much longer than expected but in the end he couldn't stand against the Russian war machine. RIP Pacal

Worst thing is i know she will come for me. She probably hates every single AI more than she hates me but i'm the easy prey. Time to prepare for the inevitable. I take my last tier 2 freedom tenet for 6 Infantries, my CBs get upgraded all the way to machine guns and i quickly build bombers and fighters : 1 of each for every city. I have a couple units from Sofia, the only militaristic CS on the map. I'm waiting for you Cathy.

Now, this is the UN 5 turns before the first election (hey, i remember where the PrintScreen key is ).

Spoiler :

That's when Cathy DoWs me. Now i have troops waiting for her, i may be behind her globally but my planes are not! No way she can break through quickly without a-bombing me and no way she can a-bomb me without bombing her own troops thanks to her attacking from Copenhague with Munich very close. She won't get me down in 5 turns, even if i badly underestimated her. At worst she will take Munich. Nothing can go wrong, right? Right ?

aaaaarrrrrgh

2 turns after Cathy, or 3 turns before my victory, Lizzy and Kami join against me. What are they trying to achieve? They have to cross all of Russia to get to me by land and should they go by see, they either have to land near Cologne

Spoiler :

Or fight against 4 Nuclear Subs to get to Frankfurt and AIs can't handle subs.

Well, turns out they didn't even try. Kamy took Zurich and Lizzy took 4 of my CS near her. 4 !! I could afford to loos a couple CS, i made it sure i had extra votes, but not that much. Now i need to start over and to make things worse both Lizzy and Cathy started spaceship. I still don't know what victory Haile is trying to get.

My fault neglecting the army for too long. I knew i could defend my lands but i forgot i had to defend my CSs. Am i going to loose an El Dorado game? No way i would give up, i now have 20 turns to get enough votes. I have nuclear Subs but they can't take cities so no way i can cross the ocean and reclaim my CS from England. It all started because of Russia, she will pay for this. I have a strong Economy, let's buy bombers, i have a good production, let's build rocket artys. Swithching to Liberation mode.

Cathy was already badly weakened from her failed attempt at taking down Munich. I took Copenhague quickly with Statue of Zeus, teched to Mobile Infantry as i was still nowhere with tanks. Aarhus followed some time later.

Psycho didn't really understood what was happening when he woke up and saw my bombers flying above his city. He quickly built some Composite Bowmen in case Cathy would turn on him once more I offered him some spice and silver then moved to the real Russian empire, splitting my army half to the SE towards captured Sofia and the other half NE towards Palenque.

It took me more time to reach the former Mayan capital than to liberate it. Two russian cities fell to the south and were offered to Psycho (no time to waste with resisting cities) ensuring his friendship but Sofia was hard to reach. In the north i turned my attention to Kamy. He was lagging in techs and it took only 3 shots from my artys to take down a city. Too bad i only had 2 of them so i had to spend 2 turns on a city. Took one of his cities for Pacal and liberated Zurich then he asked for peace offering a nice sum of money.

At last i could bring my north army back to Russia. Cathy understood this time, she offered half her cities for peace, including the smallest one, but the one i really wanted : Sofia. I offered one of the cities to Pacal so he was back to 3 cities like Psycho. Cathy DoWed him right away and reclaimed this city Well, at least there was no way she could reach Palenque before the second election and Pacal was really happy with me

Spoiler :

In the end, i didn't even need them, but it's nice to see those 2 were grateful

Spoiler :

 

[Shark Diver]

Great write-up Bob Morane. Very fun story to read and nice win.

 

[tarafran]

domination Victory @284

Spoiler :

Started on the hill ,got the eldorado right away and built my second city 2 tiles from it.
Got Dowed pretty fast after that from my Vikings neighbors who gave me my first capital . Second to go was Moscow.Next was Honolulu then the Mayans with the help of Vilnus(with a huge army) all along
Next came the Ethiopians that where leader on tech and culture and armies.
I had to watch mine as I did not built much of it except from stealing it
I did hang around to burn most of his city and finish him off as I did with the previous AI
I got a late religion that gave me some war units and some GE, finish tradition after an honor opening for the barbarians that gave me a good deal of meat shields
I went with freedom and got the 6 mercenaries and pause my campaign to build up my cities with culture ,building railways to England waiting for the Panzer tech
from there it was butter ,my first time with them ,there are pretty awesome

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Whoa, t93 and Chichen Itza is still available. And I just have a GE from Liberty finisher which was intended for Forbidden Palace. Yay or Nay?

By the way, Oracle was gone on t59. That's... new. I am actually really invested in this game, and I am taking screenshots, so there will be a detailed report.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

First 96 turns. I just made a big mess and will probably need a big army just in case. And OMg Yaaassss. A Germany map. El Dorado and Denmark... you know, it reminded me of the Morocco game, and the point from that game was well taken (if you spawn next to Harald, kill him with fire).

Spoiler :

I DoW'ed Harald right on turn 10 before meeting anyone, and he lost his entire army trying to capture hamburg on the hill.

I kept harassing him until he offered me a peace deal with Arhaus. I assaulted him exactly 10 turns later, around t70, he slowly retook Arhaus but left his cap and Kaupang defenseless.

Now I have taken out Harald (rest in pieces), and used my GG to grab some silver from Cathy. I hope she doesn't mind, and if she does, my army is standing there anyway. I mean, she does mind, but everyone has already denounced me, so there is no going back. Diplomatic Victory it is.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Lolk... Apparently, DoW'ing twice is enough for eternal hate even if the civs hadn't met you at the time of your first DoW. I had to literally sell everything I had to keep others from DoW'ing me and DoW'ing others, so it looks like my only option would be domination, but since I wanted Diplo, I am going to replay this map. I am still going to kill Harald. I will just make sure he can't make more than 2 cities.

 

[Acken]

It has more to do with wiping a Civ this creates massive hate.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Oh, it's that? I totally forgot. In the Immortal Germany game, I killed Sejong, but the hate was more moderate because it was Immortal, I guess.

The replay is definitely not going as spectacular. He didn't rush his army to my second city and actually built spearmen and crossbowmen, so I am having a difficulty finding an angle and not getting bombarded by his army.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Not wiping out Harald made a huge difference, but some scumbags still plot behind my back. Cathy is upset about her stolen silver, and Harald is just going to hate me forever.