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The Deity Challenge Line-up #31 - Ottomans

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Acken, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    At which turn did you get SS and LTOP ? Curious as i missednboth with a o90 turn liberty 5 city NC and edu 103, both gone at turn 140 or so
     
  2. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    135 and 144 respectively. LToP will always remain that wonder that can be dicey to get.
     
  3. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    If we're being historically accurate, the American UA's and UU's are pretty comical. As an American, I can honestly say that bombers, foot soldiers, and scouts aren't exactly the main reasons this particular country has had its' moment in the sun. The ability to cheaply annex territory is certainly historically accurate, so I'll give credit there.

    I would re-do America with many ideas, but will refrain from doing so as my political views may come out and that would not be cool in this forum.
     
  4. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    I'm currently on a really remote island with very limited internet speed, so can't upload images. I'll be finishing this game in the next several days and just wanted to say that I absolutely luv this map. I got lucky in that most of my early game gambles paid off. I got:

    Spoiler :

    Museum of H****, Petra (in NE expo), Oracle, 5th religion (DF, +1 food from S&T, +1 Production, RT). One city took advantage of Spain's religion and gave me a Mosque and Cathedral (not sure if Cathedral's are smart or not?).

    I've been at war with Spain since my t15 worker steal. I built 1 trireme and now my fleet sup to 13 ships (t120ish). I have 2 Logistics/Range C-bows, and will launch an easy offensive on Spain after WF gold upgrades my 4 Galleas.

    This is definitely going to be a Domination attempt, and since this is easily the strongest early navy I've ever had, I'm hoping to break a personal record.

    I did a Lib/Trad mix (Trad opener, all of Lib for Petra GE), t86 NC, t116 Education (war diversions, but my tech is catching up). I do love having 2 "capitals" (that's how I think about Petra in 2nd city).

    I'll go into full war mode around t190 with 4 frigates, a ton of coastal raiders, and 2-3 ranged future machine gunners.

    CS alliances have been golden, as I've got solid culture/faith/etc from every CS on my continent. Spain beelined to their UU"s and they just keep getting destroyed by my C-boys and "X" CS that lies between us.

    Biggest issue is happiness, as I've been negative a few times. Gold is plentiful.

    Spain conquest will be easy, and will leave BFF Kamehameha alone until the end.

    I think I'll go for Indu for Ideology, as there are no tech runaways. Given my naval strength, I'm considering Freedom for the 6 melee studs. We'll see after WF, which I'll win easily.

    Again, this is a perfect map for this civ and my luck/strategy this game.

     
  5. Bimblecrumbs

    Bimblecrumbs Warlord

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    T223 Domination

    Turn 181 onwards.

    Spoiler :
    My science was positively alchemic, so I needed the following key techs quickly: I bulbed cavalry, Oxforded Dynamite and finished my research agreement with Spain for Rifling.
    For guild specialists, I also popped 2x GW and GA as soon as they spawned.
    I built Big Ben in Istanbul to further reduce purchasing costs.
    I also made a point of buying as many CS allies as I could afford to (11 by the end), mainly to reduce the number of enemy ships swarming the map.

    Navy:

    Continuing from where I left off... on the first turn, 7 of Polynesia's ships died, 5 of which were converted [Picture 1]. It's sort of unfortunate that AIs are so bad with ships; Polynesia didn't live up to his army score and Honolulu fell on turn 190 [Picture 2]. I left a few melee specialist Frigates to defend it until he gave me gold in a peace deal at around turn 200. The rest of them circled his island hunting for prize ships, making sure that if he attacked me again there'd be next to no navy; it's a great feature that converted ships also give you honour gold as if they were kills.

    At this point I coup'd Kuala Lumpur for it's 12 Iron to support my growing pirate army.

    London looked to be a good target for my land army, so I went for Spain (Isabella was top in army by then) with my fleet. I took my time and farmed as much gold as possible through unit kills and sea trade routes; the land army would definitely take longer. Once Madrid was conquered [Picture 3], my navy chilled for the rest of the game with little to do.

    Army:

    The sole reason for it's efficiency was Riflemen with Janissary promotions; the 50hp/kill and 25% attacking bonus make them extremely overpowered, especially when combined with Cover II. About 10 of them led the way in a wide sweep of the continent; I was able to advance my entire army 1-2 tiles per turn because of their healing ability, without stopping for breaks.

    I had saved about 4k gold for all of the following. To begin with I bought a military academy and 7 cannons in Jakarta. Most of the Janissaries were swum over from my lands. From then on I bought 1 unit per turn in Jakarta until the end of the game; mostly Cavalry but a couple more Artis too. Honour was able to finance this, and was definitely worth it at this stage of the game. Cargo ships from Jakarta also provided much needed gold; these only went to the closest city states so that I could mostly protect them. I had also built a road to Edinburgh for a quick attack.

    I took out Cardiff first and razed it, thinking that I would have happiness problems; as it turned out I didn't need to. Since I'm actually Welsh irl I guess I should have taken sympathy on Cardiff and let it live :)

    After Cardiff Attila had a lot of units blocking me from assaulting Edinburgh, so I warred him too and pushed both fronts [Picture 4]. Again, Janissary Rifles alone made this possible.

    Next Malang and Edinburgh fell, and I took white peace from the Celts. There was a handy road network from Jakarta to Malang and up to Kiev, so Cavalry could reach the front in 2-3 turns.

    While I left a few units to slowly wear down Attila's court, most pressed on to England and Poland [Picture 5]. Unlike The Huns and Celts, whose Rifles made advancing a lot tougher, they still had Muskets, and died quickly for it. Most of Lizzie's army was over to the west, which made taking Nottingham more simple. After Nottingham I surrounded and pillaged York but only took London.

    At about this point both of my spies tried to coup Antanarivo from Poland and both died. To be fair up until then I had been lucky with coups, so it was about time I failed 1 or 2.

    Most of Poland's units were west of Kiev [Picture 6], so I bought it out and sandwiched his army against Polynesia's lands. He only had 1 Winged Hussar, which was disappointing. A final push north with a load of melee units and 3 Artis finished the game up [Picture 7].


    As an alternative strategy I considered taking the small Polynesian city just west of Warsaw, and buying a few units to lay siege to Poland's cap. In the end I decided not to simultaneously war Polynesia and Spain at the same time as it seemed too risky, but it may have resulted in a slightly faster victory.


    Techs: Philosophy ---> Education ---> Metal Casting ---> Machinery ---> Steel (stolen) ---> Navigation ---> Industrlialisation ---> Chemistry ---> Dynamite ---> Rifling ---> Scientific Theory.

    Social Policies in order: Honour 6, Commerce 4, Exploration 1, Autocracy 3, Commerce finisher, Autocracy 5.


    Sorry to you non-German speakers if it's annoying that the screenshots are in German. I'm currently living here and learning the language and it's hilarious to come out with words like "granary" and "gunpowder" from time to time! "My disagreements with you have become too much to bear" is a personal favourite :D
     

    Attached Files:

  6. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    Damn. Ss was gone at turn 130/133 in mine. Wanted to try for a CV as i it s the type of victory i rarely use, and thus wanted to grab one of the two to ease my probable future screw up. Well, too bad...

    I m gonna stay on that path though. Rush ST and then archeology for mass digging. I m considering building something like 10 scouts so i can camp on archeology sites when they spawn. And then rush plastics and internet.

    Or should i go plastics before archeology ?
     
  7. peddroelm

    peddroelm King

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    @Bimblecrumbs very nice write up and victory time ..

    How did you manage Spain early - surprised she didn't forward settle you .. Well timed bribes ? My reason for not going "full water" on this map is the need to deal with Spain first ..
     
  8. Bimblecrumbs

    Bimblecrumbs Warlord

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    @peddroelm

    Spoiler :
    I settled Edirne as my 2nd city pretty early due to the high production start, so she had no chance at that spot. My 2nd and 3rd cities were placed such that an AI would probably only settle the inland Grand Mesa spot - that's what Isabella eventually did. I was ready to block additional settlers but they only came once I warred her much later on, so I killed them.

    I didn't bribe her, no. For some positive modifiers I sent an early cargo ship to her and a 2nd at Machinery (forgot to say I got that before Education). I had planned to get open borders asap, so as to willingly accept her religion, but her missionaries came and converted my cities before that, so she was content. Spain's DoF request on turn ~140 was a real surprise.

    Another poster mentioned a similar situation to my game; she sent 10 or so units to hang out around Edirne, but they ended up not attacking. This may have been due to my rush building some Composites as a deterrent, or maybe my outgoing cargo ships provided enough of an opportunity cost for her not to attack me.
    Later her units came back a second time, accompanied by a settler, and founded Valencia. I just looked it up and Valencia is the name for the 9th city Spain founds; so she didn't prioritise settling south much at all. It was funny to watch 3 Janissary Rifles eat through 15+ pikes/cannons/conquistadors without batting an eye.
     
  9. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    T267 Resign, lost Edirne. I really had a lack of focus all game, was not making any progress.
    Spoiler :
    Double out-of-the-blue DOW from Isabella and Elizabeth.
    My plan, such that it was, was to sit back and wait for UA boosted Ironclads. But map is tight w/ coal, so that idea was doomed from T0.
     
  10. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    T277 Cultural win

    Spoiler :
    A pretty easy game in which i went four city tradition. Could have won earlier but Polynesia and Indonesia denounced me before the end. May have to try a liberty CV again some time.
     

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  11. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    Right here with you on the lack of focus. Played too quickly and settled dumb cities. I really dont deal well with liberty and cultural victories to just go for the two here. Will probably start this DCL from scratch. I'll try and go for a tradition + cultural win as i'm bored with science ones
     
  12. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Plastics isn't very important for culture. I got only 1 lab in my game and I reached airports and Internet. Getting archeology faster is more important.

    Neither sistine or Ltop are necessary so you can keep going.
     
  13. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    I know those arent mandatory but my liberty play sucks big time lol. And moving down near the river for istanbul was a bad move down the line. Also pretty sure i m way too late on my culture building. Maybe can be salvage still but i ll have to go back a few turn i think.

    Uffizi will be out of reach as well i think. Not mandatory either but still a bad thing. Maybe i ll go for an explo opener and get the louvre then rush eiffel tower andminternet and airport
     
  14. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    I definitely should work on my culture game. Usually it comes down to:

    1. Be too late for Pisa, roll a dice with SC and Uffizi
    2. Be too late for most of the artifacts and only score a few
    3. Take Internet before Airports
    4. Somehow still win around 300ish

    Any benchmarks?
     
  15. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Getting artifacts is probably the thing you're mostly missing since while wonders aren't really necessary getting a lot of artefacts still has a huge impact on total tourism.

    The next thing to understand about culture is that it simply is easier the faster you are to reach the end. Fighting 20K culture with 500tourism is a lot easier than 60K. If you get longer games you'll have to be more creative to raise your tourism. Winning the games at the right time, passing good world congress bonuses etc.
     
  16. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    That's why I dislike the World Fair. It usually comes up just at the worst possible time when I should be popping those archeologists but at the same time, I have to win the WF so that nobody else can.

    Also, what should be the priority, Airports or Internet? I usually finish NVC and Internet around the same period but then I wait for Airports so that musicians can be stronger
     
  17. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    If you get labs, bulbing your GSs should allow you to reach both. If you don't get lab I preffer Internet first and then maybe buy a GS + 1 natural and reach airport that way. Then buy all airports with accumulated gold. Internet is the bigger boost so may as well start accumulating earlier.

    You can chose to propose WF later too. If you have no wonders the first resolution probably is limited though. And lately I've been skeptic about world religion... the hatred sometimes make me feel it's not worth it.
     
  18. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    t191. I'm planning for domV, two capitals captured with frigates.

    Spoiler :



    In the midgame I beelined navigation and built a force of frigates and privateers. I first captured Jakarta (nice wonders, truffles) and then Cordoba and Madrid (GLH, copper, iron).

    Polynesia is way ahead of me in tech 58% vs 51%, last cargo ship showed 9 vs 2 techs not discovered; they have coal, oil, and alu. It's tempting to try to take them out, but honolulu has 76 defense and I don't have logistics yet on my frigates. Also, he has a lot of CS allies (11), so it will be an annoying conflict. I do have good economy (3000g, 160gpt) so I could buy some of the more annoying CS.

    The problem is that there are no coastal capitals left except for honolulu, and I'm just building my land army. So, my fleet (13 frigates, 7 privateers) would more or less just do nothing. I guess I could have kept war with spain to collect promotions? I could also declare and limit myself to sniping his fleet first, but that would worsen my hapiness situation and probably result in a complete loss of my trade routes.

    Possible mistakes / dubious decisions:
    - I build a city near old faithful, Iron, and gems in the northwest corner. Maybe I should have used the iron city state to get iron instead
    - Should I have captured / kept Cordoba? I hate not having contiguous borders, but I guess I could have capture Madrid 5-10 turns earlier
    - I had too few privateers initially. I had something like 6 frigates and 3 privateers in my first attack to spain, it would be better to have a more even distribution or even more privateers, since they should soak most damage. (for indonesia it didn't matter much as they didn't have navigation yet)
    - I took too many policies in exploration. Opening and tradition make sense, but the +3 prod and +gold are probably not worth it - I could have finished commerce by now and got the happy boost.
    - I build barracks + armory + academy in more or less all useful cities, maybe the academy is overkill except for the 3 best cities?

    Advise?
     
  19. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I tried again from turn I closed out Liberty, using the GP as GPr to found last religion. I still lost (T339) by a wide margin, but that beats quitting. I made much more conventional choices with religion and SP. I still went wide, self founding 9 cities, but can’t recommend that approach. I am playing it again from T23, with four city Tradition.
     
  20. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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