The Deity Challenge Line-up #31 - Ottomans

[adcarrymaokai]

If we're being historically accurate, the American UA's and UU's are pretty comical. As an American, I can honestly say that bombers, foot soldiers, and scouts aren't exactly the main reasons this particular country has had its' moment in the sun. The ability to cheaply annex territory is certainly historically accurate, so I'll give credit there.

Minutemen are actually a staple trope in many video games, so no surprise here. But they come during the Renaissance, which is funny. You can only give US industrial and later eras units, and there are hardly any special buildings (there are plenty of US-based 'wonders' anyway). I think the bomber is fine, and I feel like it is simply there due to legacy. It existed in Civ III.

As for the UA, we should get one that reads, "stealing land from the Shoshone and the Iroquois and razing their cities gives double yields and bonus gold." The US hardly ever purchased any land and mostly displaced Native Americans into reservations. So... not accurate at all.

 

[peddroelm]

might be able to do this map also after a few restarts .

Spoiler :

Think I've made it to ~T180 (won't be a quick win) ..

Finished 4 city liberty , settled great scientist, managed to get an extremely late Oracle in my worst production city (what was I thinking ?) .. Finished Honor , opened commerce and snagged the 2 free autocracy policies (spies and rush buy discount) .. I'm sitting on 3-5 city states 2 culture, 1 faith, 2 mercantile .. Captured quite a few spanish galleases using trireme/caravels while teching/building other stuff . Captured and settled 2 great prophets so I have solid FPT but nothing to dump it on ..

I'm in sight of Madrid but might need to wait for artillery (lost 2 frigates stupidly to a city state caravel ) lost two would be janissaries by not paying attention .. (janisaries with blitz are so fun - pacman ). After Madrid will move to the other continent (Indonesia, Celts, Huns, England & Poland).. Polynesia will be saved for last via water snipe ..I probably won't reach modern era ..

There will be ironclads !!

 

[Solutionfinder]

I`ve decided to give it another go...

Spoiler :

I went liberty then opened honor but not completed it yet as I had to adopt militarism tenet first. I beelined navigation and started war on t180 with Indonesia. The problem is that I only managed to capture Jakarta on t221 so I must be doing sth wrong. It`s true that he built Red Fort and got to navigation about 10 turns after I DoW him but still I have a feeling that I`m missing sth so any suggestions and tips are welcome.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

@Solutionfinder:

Spoiler :

You said it yourself: Red Fort. You got unlucky that Indonesia built it - it's a very effective wonder when defending against frigate/cannon/gatling rushes and caused me problems both in this DCL and in the Iroquois one. Polynesia built it in my game, so I had more time to prepare before having to take on his defence 90 city.

If it weren't for the Red Fort, your attacking force of 7 frigates could have taken Jakarta quickly enough, since Jakarta wouldn't have had more than 60 defence and can be attacked by 5 (non-range) frigates at a time.

An earlier Navigation time than turn 180 would have helped you though; you might have avoided the Red Fort altogether.

To the people out there who are into frigate rushes: what's a solid benchmark turn time for Navigation?

 

[stormtrooper412]

Around 160ish the latest, quipgrade galleases and wham. Frigates stronk

 

[Acken]

Navigation only requires astronomy. You can get it at turn 130. Edu T110 Astro 120 Navigation 130 more or less 10 turns.

 

[vanatteveldt]

My current play of the game (modeled on Acken's aquaduct - NC - workshop - uni 6 city liberty opening) has navigation at t142 but with too few units. (3 galeasses and 2 caravels). The result was that after killing his fleet I had to sail back, repair, and only then could attack ...

Spoiler :

... Jakarta, which fell on t156. I then sailed around to Spain, DOWed her and attacked her t171, captured Madrid t191.

In retrospect I should have waited longer with the spain DOW, as I still had a DOF going and my navy wouldn't really have anything else to do anyway.

 

[Acken]

If you're gearing for a frigate rush you should try to make more galleases. Take Compass before Education.

 

[Solutionfinder]

@Solutionfinder:

Spoiler :

You said it yourself: Red Fort. You got unlucky that Indonesia built it - it's a very effective wonder when defending against frigate/cannon/gatling rushes and caused me problems both in this DCL and in the Iroquois one. Polynesia built it in my game, so I had more time to prepare before having to take on his defence 90 city.

If it weren't for the Red Fort, your attacking force of 7 frigates could have taken Jakarta quickly enough, since Jakarta wouldn't have had more than 60 defence and can be attacked by 5 (non-range) frigates at a time.

An earlier Navigation time than turn 180 would have helped you though; you might have avoided the Red Fort altogether.

To the people out there who are into frigate rushes: what's a solid benchmark turn time for Navigation?

I got to Nav about 15 turns earlier but had to raise frigs and privs first. I wanted to get galleasses early and upgrade them but just couldn`t compensate for the needed infrastructure before Nav.

By non-range you mean without range promotion? If so, when I put one of the frigs without range promotion within 2 tiles of the city it got killed every time. It was city bomb, XB and frig or priv every turn a new one and I had to kill that one first before the remaining frigs could fire on the city again. I don`t know if this was the right way though but bringing frigs within 2 tiles of the city wasn`t a good idea

 

[Solutionfinder]

Wow Nav on t130...that seems impossible.

Yeah not getting galleasses first was a mistake. It certainly felt like one. When I was approaching navigation the 3 west coast cities were set to build barracks and armories so it was more like bad planning all along. Will try to implement this in my game next time. Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Well I find it really difficult to balance teching - infrastructure - units as well. And especially ranged units profit from the 30XP since they gain XP so slowly - I only just got my first logistics frigates after the third naval campaign...

 

[nmp0098]

Spoiler :

This was one of those games where I felt like I mis-timed everything and should have finished much sooner. There was only one really strong culture opponent, and I was able to beat Kame to a lot of the key Wonders. I ended up winning with another GM in the drink, and it felt like having too many bulbs at the end of a science game. It was an interesting game the whole time (would Isabella finally DOW me and kill a musician or two?) and an interesting map, so I had fun regardless.

I decided to move my settler towards the wheat on the river, and I think the spot I chose worked out pretty well. I didn't like any of the expo locations that lux-settling would have given, so I delayed settlers to get a worker out. I could have stolen workers from one of the nearby city-states, but I had both allied after a while because of a favorably located barb camp and I didn't want to mess up that possibility with a DOW. I did steal a few workers from the CS to the North, just because Spain was feeling very stingy this game.

I ended up with later than ideal expos, NC, Education, etc. I added the HG to the capital, so it was in a good position to hammer some Wonders out. I went straight into Acoustics, then after Machinery/Metal Casting I went for Architecture. I was able to build Sistine and Uffizi. I had no realistic shot at PP and LToP, so I didn't even try.

I was behind in my expos all game, and a detour to Chemistry/Fertilizer after ST helped me hammer everything in and close out strong. I only managed to get 4 artifacts because I was behind, but I was able to add all of the late Wonders and get Internet ~T220.

I had to deal with a Hunnic invasion at one point, but I had some Janissaries (infantry by the end) and Xbows ready. I was able to fend him off with help from a rushed set of walls, but he managed to pillage several cargos and set me back a good bit. He was probably annoyed that I stole 5-6 techs from him. Spain kept showing signs of aggressiveness all game, and I sent the Spaniards after Kame twice to keep them both occupied.

I went for full Tradition, Aesthetics, Rationalism (finished late), and put 10 into Freedom. I went early into Freedom, and I didn't get my tourism going until long after Kame had Order pressure on everyone so they all followed him. He had control of the WC and passed several annoying things, like his religion, Order, and IG (which I lost, and was bound to lose if proposed that particular vote).

 

[vanatteveldt]

t231 - work in progress

Spoiler :

After Spain fell I produced some artillery and melee units and shipped them to Jakarta. When Attilla conquered Edinburgh and was close to conquering Medan I decided to snatch Medan from his clutches. Then, I placed a citadel to steal his citadel, which made it a lot easier to massacre his units (mostly with artillery) and kill him.

Interestingly (as detailed in another thread), London was killed of by Valetta, and she was listed as "has not built a capital". However, I decided to conquer London anyway as it had a unique lux and it would be a good naval base.

The turn I conquered Gdansk and London I got DOW'ed by Polynesia and Spain. My first instinct was to ragequit, but then I calmed down, fired up civ again, and started a defensive war. Spain had much more units than I (I had neglected a good defense, thinking Spain was taken care of - quite stupid as just a few gattling guns and artillery would probably have been enough) and Madrid swapped hands three times or so, it is now a village of 1. I gained the upper hand though and am about to conquer Barcelona.

Against Polynesia it is less fun, attacking battleships with frigates is not my thing. I did capture a couple ironclads, and managed to sink two batteships with mainly coastal artillery and a range+logistics frigate that sails out the harbour, fires two shots, and sails back in. He sent a couple of fleets, but I haven't really seen much of an army yet. He has bombers though, so every time I come close I get slapped.

I went autocracy (Polynesia went order first, maybe I should have followed for the diplo and happy). Hapiness was easy for a while but is not close to zero again, unfortunately. The spy bonus really helps though, I have three spies on Polynesia, and stole electricity and flight. He is still well ahead of me, but at least I now have an answer to his bombers, and prora should give me a good happy fix for a bit.

My current plan is to catch up a little on tech, at least to electronics, and do a coastal attack on Honolulu while driving my army North against Warsaw as soon as I have AA guns timed with Clausewitz. Backup plan is to get nukes

 

[adcarrymaokai]

If you're gearing for a frigate rush you should try to make more galleases. Take Compass before Education.

This map can't be finished with just Frigates, and naval combat vs AI is easy, so Frigates actually have a big window of opportunity. Wouldn't it make sense to get Education, then pick Compass and research 1-2 bottom tree techs while making Galleases? You would still want Artillery to take inland capitals. No?

 

[Acken]

I feel you have a lot more time between NC and Edu to start making some than after Edu when you have to make the unis to begin with. Taking compass is a delay of 5 turns on Edu, it will hardly matter on your artillery timing.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Whatever you say, Acken-senpai.

 

[Acken]

Here turn 130 navigation and 10 galleases ready (not enough gold yet though, map is a bit poor). 6 Liberty 2 Exploration 1 Rationalism.

Spoiler :

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Oh well. I don't actually know when I will get to this map again. Started a new job and moved cities, so no time to play any game at the moment. I do want to do Frigate rush and build all Ottoman units for Domination.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

@vanatteveldt: I wouldn't say that ranged units xp slowly. You should normally be able to build barracks, but if you can't fit in an armoury then prioritise building galleasses over it; 15xp is only 5 city shots (4 with honour) and can be earnt.

It's better to have enough galleasses earlier than more experienced ones later. Take Acken's example, he almost certainly doesn't have armouries up in that picture, but is nonetheless ready for Navigation when it comes.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

@Solutionfinder:

Spoiler :

Yes, by non-range I mean without the range promotion. I attacked Jakarta before Indonesia had Navigation; frigates within range of the city were taken down to ~15% hp but not killed outright. They would certainly have died from, for example, an extra privateer attack.

You need Navigation before him, or lots of converted cannon fodder units to sacrifice. Put a 50hp trireme in range of the city and it'll usually be prioritised by the city's bombardment, which does the most damage.