The Deity Challenge Line-up - Game #11 - Morocco

[Strickl3r]

Turn 90

Spoiler :

Moved the settler 1 N, because i saw some raw desert tiles to the south. Well that's some extra unworkable tiles with mountains, but couldn't have seen that and got an extra cow for a stable at least.
I bought an Archer and my 4th Libary for cash. Obv did a bad job with scouting the map and i have no influence on city states, but you can't have everything. In exchange i got some trades going with the Ai for extra happiness. To bad the city state already has El Dorado which was in my 3rd ring.

4 City NC will be finished next turn.
2 juicy trade routes almost done for extra cash, science and diplo.
DoF with Boobica and Bluetooth.

So far 3 wars. Bluetooth took Indonesian Capitol and Alex has some fun with Assyra and Pocatello, although they did make peace already without having achieved anything.

I guess i go for science victory. No faith so far for me and i passed on the early shrine, but Boobicas religions gives me a little extra food for my camps at the very least.

 

[consentient]

Spoiler :

Yeah, well, that's not gonna happen.

I found time to get an hour of playing time in. As promised, I decided to go for Petra, and this setup gave me a pretty good opportunity to try a more creative approach at it.

I settled the Capital on grassland/river just South of the copper. My plan was going to be to focus on science and culture, go Liberty, and use the free settler as last policy to complete the tree and just march settler and GE down to the middle of the desert where more tiles would benefit from Petra.

BO was scout > Monument > Shrine > Library >Settler > Granary > Caravan > Watermill

Everything went incredibly well, as I got an early cultural ally (barb camp and returned the settler), both scout and archer accepted promotions, and goodie huts were slightly above average (no religion huts).

I was on pace to complete the tree on t63 and would have settled settler and popped GE on t66 (If settler appeared on the right side of capital). This would have been my earliest Petra ever on Deity.

Like I said, everything was going incredibly well………..until Napolean built Petra on t60. That quiche-eating surrender monkey barely even had any desert in his capital and he builds one of the earliest Petra's in history? Suffice it to say, I walked away, managed to not kick my dog, and found something……ANYthing…..else to do.

I'll go ahead and play this out later in the week, but the Petra gambit didn't work this time. I've already got DoF from the skirt-wearing Celts and I'll probably get 2nd or 3rd religion.

The nice thing about this approach to Petra is that it doesn't totally screw up your game if you miss it. Also, taking Citizenship (free settler) last allows you to take Representation much earlier. This allows you to zip through the tree 10+ turns more quickly, avoids higher science costs from early city, and makes it much easier to complete another policy tree before Rationalism. I think this strategy is workable for early Petra, and if you can get a cultural pantheon, you can probably get Petra before t60. Getting that wonder in a non-capital city is wonderful, as that city can do a lot of heavy lifting. It's like having 2 capitals.

Could you maybe make a video of this 'gambit'? I can't really imagine it conceptually. I'm a very visual learner and had always assumed Petra was a 1/100 type of thing on Deity.

If I could watch you do it using Liberty, I could maybe take a crack at it next time I get suitable dirt.

 

[z284pwr]

Spoiler :

T90 already concerned about Napoleon. Becoming a major wonder spammer and can't get Assyria to declare war for an acceptable price yet and too far away to do anything myself right now. Three cities in the same spots just about every one here has done. Not sure about the 4th, was thinking NW closer to the Celts but they currently have the biggest military and don't think I want to get a back stabbing and lose the city.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Turn 90

Spoiler :

Moved the settler 1 N, because i saw some raw desert tiles to the south. Well that's some extra unworkable tiles with mountains, but couldn't have seen that and got an extra cow for a stable at least.
I bought an Archer and my 4th Libary for cash. Obv did a bad job with scouting the map and i have no influence on city states, but you can't have everything. In exchange i got some trades going with the Ai for extra happiness. To bad the city state already has El Dorado which was in my 3rd ring.

4 City NC will be finished next turn.
2 juicy trade routes almost done for extra cash, science and diplo.
DoF with Boobica and Bluetooth.

So far 3 wars. Bluetooth took Indonesian Capitol and Alex has some fun with Assyra and Pocatello, although they did make peace already without having achieved anything.

I guess i go for science victory. No faith so far for me and i passed on the early shrine, but Boobicas religions gives me a little extra food for my camps at the very least.

Is that El Dorado? LolK, I am totally playing this map. t84 NC with 4 cities. Would prob be t80-81 NC if barbarians didn't pillage a horse improvement and a quarry.

Spoiler :

Scout - Monument - Scout - 3 settlers - Granary - Library - NC

I actually built an Archer in Casablanca and used the El Dorado gold to buy the tile itself -- hence slow growth in Rabat. I just really want to finish Tradition asap. I also used the gold to buy a Caravan to Boudicca and later Bluetooth. He covets my lands, but a trade route made him friendly. Definitely will have to watch out for him.

Boudicca took +1 food from camps, Pagodas, Mosques, and Jesuit Education. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? Gotta start generating all that faith. I might even drop into Piety for extra faith from shrines and temples. I was going to do a peaceful CV anyway, so I should be swimming in policies.

Nabbed a worker from Celts, Denmark, and Tyre. Now we are all cuddle buddies. Also, I never ever give embassy to Alex, but some CS wanted to find Greece and he is far away. Let's hope it won't turn against me.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Like I said, everything was going incredibly well………..until Napolean built Petra on t60. That quiche-eating surrender monkey barely even had any desert in his capital and he builds one of the earliest Petra's in history? Suffice it to say, I walked away, managed to not kick my dog, and found something……ANYthing…..else to do.

I wish they fixed the AI to act less erratic and make better decisions. Right now, the AI's settle in the worst spots, build useless wonders, and nab pantheons that barely benefit them. I mean... come on, Firaxis/2k/whatever, you can easily optimize the AI to pick a pantheon that applies to your terrain/starting location. There are many other things the AI's do, especially on Deity, since they have such an immense advantage.

Actually, this game I replayed the first 30 turns several times to get the feel of how the AI makes decisions. Apparently, when I did not meet Bouddica, she picked +1 from camps pantheon. If I met her, she would pick +30% city strength combat. When I stole her worker and was at war with her, she picked Cathedrals and Papal Primacy for her religion. When I reloaded and made peace, she founded religion several turns later and went for Pagodas. Go figure.

 

[consentient]

I wish they fixed the AI to act less erratic and make better decisions.

Haha! Yeah, in my game last night I stormed Maria with my barbarian army (Bismarck) and for the next 10 turns all she produced were settlers. Doh!

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Jesus Christ. It's turn 100, and Pocatello is already marching his Musketmen on Alex, after completing Himeji Castle.

 

[Shark Diver]

Could you maybe make a video of this 'gambit'? I can't really imagine it conceptually. I'm a very visual learner and had always assumed Petra was a 1/100 type of thing on Deity.

If I could watch you do it using Liberty, I could maybe take a crack at it next time I get suitable dirt.

@ Consentient

Spoiler :

I just recently figured out how to play DCL games on my Mac, so I'm not sure if I can figure out how to make a video. I'm just not very tech-savvy.

I will, however, try to roll a few starts with this gambit as the goal and see how it works and invite comments from others who are better than I am.

Sadly, my free time has gone from "24/7 civ" to "38/7 underwater training/drills" and I do have to work occasionally, so I may not be able to devote much time to this.

If I can stay awake for a bit, I'll try to start a separate thread on this subject tonight, but no promises.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Ok, I am pretty done with this game (as in, "gurl, i am so done"). Peaceful CV is impossible. Diplo is only possible if somebody sends Alex to hell. I might replay tomorrow for a good ole' SV. After a great start, things went downhill.

Spoiler :

I only tried going for the Oracle, Machu Pichu, and Pisa. Boudicca built the Oracle, and Assyria beat me to Machu by 3 turns. I got Pisa, though.

Ashurbanipal nabbed Petra and DF, so he is rolling like a king, and basically he and Alex built every wonder in the game after Classical Era. Alex is controlling nearly every CS, and despite the constant warring between Ashur, Pocatello, and Alex, they are the leaders of the scoreboard. Alex entered Industrial Era at turn 142. I was trying to use my UA, which stunted growth, so my Industrial happened late at t177, and then I Oxford-jumped to Modern by t183.

Then, I had to reload once because Bluetooth backstabbed me in a Dido-esque manner. Didn't quite expect and wasn't ready. Had to bribe him to fight Kameha, who rapidly perished. Now I bribed Harald to fight Boudicca. She lost 2 cities and yet managed to beat me to World Fair -- and this is where I kiss my CV goodbye.

Overall, Moroccan UA is pretty underwhelming. 1 and 3 do not scale past the first 50 turns, so it's almost always better to send an internal food route, especially since that food can allow you to work a 3+ gold tile or a higher culture yield tile. Sure, the AI's are encouraged to send trade routes to you, but it's pretty unreliable. The UI is rather disappointing. It's only good if you got Petra and DF. Otherwise, it makes an empty tile give a total of 1 1 1 . It's 3 units total, and you almost always will have a higher yield tiles or specialist slots which just give a lot more. Kasbah is decent on a flood plane or hill, but that, again, is pretty unreliable.

 

[consentient]

@adcarrymaokai

Spoiler :

Looks like you had a stinker, sorry to hear it. Total opposite of my game in which Ash and Alex were wiped out by Nappy and Pocatello. So Diplo, CV and Science were all possible, although Pocatello's army alone meant that war was OFF THE TABLE, let's just say.

I agree that Morocco are underwhelming later on, but early trade gave me a decent economy to buy the stuff I needed to setup my mid game. Sorry you missed out on Oracle, but the others I've given up going for now. This game was my last try at Pisa, ever. The only wonders I will try for after this are Oracle, Pyramids if I build it early, and religious ones in those rare games where no AI gives a hoot about religion.

I also think that the UA is the reason I build friendships that lasted as long as they did.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

I missed the Oracle because I built NC first. If I had gone for the Oracle, I would have got it for sure. Pisa is actually one of those wonders which are not too hard to get on Deity, unless you are too behind in tech and don't have good production. Somehow, the AI's rarely enter the Renaissance via Printing Press (if ever?), and then they rush Globe anyway. With Pisa GE, you can snag another Renaissance wonder. I wanted to get Uffizi, but Ashur built it before I even researched Acoustics. So there we have some civs entering via Acoustics, and then someone like Pocatello always goes for Gunpowder.

Alex entered the Renaissance at t100, btw.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

t105 - big hopes deflated

Spoiler :

I wandered a bit and and couldn't find a good hill/river spot, much less with mtn, so settled like 3 N of start next to copper on t4. Met Tyre and DOW'd to try worker steals, but it's workers tended to go N. A barb stole one, so I crawled through the gap with an upgraded Spear and wasted like 15 turns damaging a Hand Axe and being chased by spawned Warriors. Finally killed the camp for Kiev and stole a second Worker, but they were never going to get home so made peace.

Scout found El Dorado, so I had a 2nd Settler like t10! Sent it S to go for Petra, and wanted 3rd city to get El Dorado or at least the mtn gap for river/hill/mtn strongpost, but Celts were so fast and took the gap with 3rd city. Was starting ToA in cap and prepping for Petra when both went t60, sheesh. Underpants got DF and Petra, Celts got ToA. Celts in Beast Mode - religion t28, SH t39, enhance t48. She started converting my cities and then built Borobdur, and all 3 Missionaries came my way. I took Earth Mother, and could have had 5th religion with Mosques, but no way to spread, so I planted my GP and will try to get her Cathedrals and Monasteries (meh buildings). May put 1 in Piety just to get faster builds, maybe even go 2 for more late-game faith buys.

Settled near El Dorado (bought Library) and SE river/sea next to horsies, may Citadel the NW later. Sent a 5th Settler and worker SE to get gems and dyes, but couldn't quite get another 400g so they languished like 12 turns until NC was built - big mistake.

Early science is slow, as usual for me, looks like about t 122 Education, Alex and Celts hit Renn t102. Bee-lining Currency really set me back.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

t80 NC, but only t174 Modern. Boudicca did not take Jesuit Education, and I never had cash this game to rush buy universities/schools. Harald's huge army is standing right outside my borders, and no AI wants to DoW him. Alex is controlling every CS on the map. In short: F this game. I also did not get any wonder whatsoever. The Oracle was gone at t80. Is this real life?

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

t214 update

Spoiler :

Just cruising along. Alex is kicking butt on science and diplo. I have been forced to focus on production more than I like while still running scientists, so my cities aren't very big (Harald keeps pillaging my farms up N and my cap turned out to have too many mtns). Hard-building all RLabs as my faith went to a GE for Eiffel, my only tourism. Just 1 RLab so far, in my cap. Harald (with GW) has DOW'd me twice and will again soon. I actually lost a couple units in the first war, because I didn't take an early peace. He bluffed wanting first 4 and then 2 cities both wars. Built a couple canons to upgrade, but cash is tight. Proposed and won the WF with 905 hammers.

This is my first game ever where I went full Tradition then right into Rat (tells me the Tradition nerf has an impact). Usually I have to use 1 or 2 elsewhere, and Patronage or Piety would have helped other game aspects. But the result was using Rat finish to get Radio t183, which was new (I usually am using the Rat finisher way down the tech tree). Bulbed 2x for RParts and Oxforded Plastics t201.

Being in the corner I'm getting almost no use out of the trade ability, and only 2 Kasbah sites seemed worthwhile, so without Petra the immersion part of this game stinks. I bought 4/5 Monasteries and 1 Pub School, fpt is poor. I still haven't explored a bunch of the map as the most efficient science bee-line is to Satellites with no upper tree for a long time (no Astronomy, as I have no Observatory cities).

I stole a couple very useful techs from Captain Underpants (Acoustics and Architecture). I went Order and he followed later. Alex was 2nd and took Autocracy, Harald joined him later. Shoshone went Freedom - Celts have the tourism lead, I am a little worried she will go other than Order and rock the boat - I need her roads. I didn't renew DOF with her after 2-3-4 of them. Celts finished off Assyria after others dog-piled him - Shoshone and Underpants have been in a long war with Celts and finally one of her cities is losing health. I am surprised that Nappy has been pretty peaceful after several early wars, would love to see him pound Alex down. Shoshone leads in most Demographics (Alex has Mil lead). Alex continues to coup my CS and looks unlikely to lose WC hosting.

I would like to build another expo down S to get cargo ships going and to snag more coal. I am surprised to find many islands empty - but only 2 civs went Liberty.

 

[Shark Diver]

t120

Spoiler :

Nothing really exciting to report. I finally got a free hour to pick up where I left off. After missing out on the Petra gambit, I decided to just turtle up and get an ugly SV.

At t120 I've got 3 Uni's up and the 4th in my crappy late expo is coming soon. Everyone seems to like me and I've got enough firepower to fight off just about anyone in this corner. I finished Liberty and grabbed a couple in Patronage, but Alex is killing it here. I made the mistake of accepting a DoW offer from good buddy Kamehameha, thinking I couldn't be touched (and I wanted to see SOME action this game) and I almost lost city to a horde of CS trebuchets.

I like playing Morocco, but this map doesn't allow for any of its' uniques to come into play. Not much of a desert, lousy kasbah spots, and nobody can really send trade routes. Given the mountainous pass, I don't think the Berbers are even going to be built. This is just a blah game.

My GP never showed up and last religion was founded when I had 260 faith. I'll just accept Boudie's religion, but she didn't even have the courtesy to take Pagodas or a helpful reformation belief.

I'll try to finish this, just for posterity, when I have free time again in about a week, but this civ could have been a lot more fun. I don't blame the map provider, just a bad combination of civs/terrain.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

How do you guys all manage to get Ashurbanipal eliminated in your games? In both of my replays, he is a major wonder spammer and a successful warmonger.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

He is rarely a challenging force in any of my games. Who knows what happens in the fog, but when he has tried to assault my cities, and especially wandering around in mixed terrain, his early units are terribly incohesive. As long as he isn't next door he's one of my favorite trading partners. In an earlier ICL (#4 - Arabia) he just sat at 2 cities forever, with plenty of room behind him. I think the coding had him obsessed with the sweet mtn passes I settled in.

 

[consentient]

1. He's in the middle.
2. He built too many of the UU which Moriarte calls "deadly and useless" or something like that.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Yeah well usually Assyria AI builds a bunch of siege towers, does nothing, and soon falls off. In this map, however, he took 3 Greek cities. I sent a spy to his cap, and he is building musketmen and knights. Go figure.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Spoiler :

Wow Nigel! +38 happy on turn 216, very nice. I had a huge problem with happy this whole game since I could not hold any CS's. Alex had 200-400 Influence on all of them except 1 or 2 that Denmark or Celts had control of. I did manage to Coup 2 CS's with 85% chance but Alex took them right back a few turns later. I could of tried to coup a few more but my chances were slim and even at 85% I don't like losing my friends if my spy gets killed so I do not try for it. My faith output was very low and I did not buy the faith buildings for happy since I wanted to make sure I got 1 GE with faith.

I guess yours and others 4 city approach expanding outside of the mtn helps out with more of everything. The only downside is that you are open to attacks. All my gold went to RA's and rushing Science buildings so I couldn't use it for the CS's for all that happy.

About Assyria... They pretty much got attacked from Alex and Poc in my game and it is pretty hard to survive that mess. Poc and Alex were in a total stalemate my whole game along with France and the Irish.