The Deity Challenge Lineup #12 - The Maya

Just wanted to say you do appreciated work continuing this series

 

I agree with Acken. You actually are improving it compared to what it was. Great Job!

Turns 70-111

Spoiler :

Ok so after a few hours of break time I got back into this game. I decided my best play was to Backstab Venice and kill that 2nd MOV. Later I had to kill another so that was 3 so far this game. The war only lasted a few turns and he gave me peace with 1gpt as well. Monty is smashing Carthage

I worker baited a few troops of Venice and decided to rush in on the second war since he stole my worker on the first and left it open to attack 11 turns after the first war. So I had 8 Comp Bows surrounding his capital and decided to rush in since my second horseman was almost ready. I lost the first as a trade off for taking back a worker. His two GG (ships) and 1 archer and Tradition city attack 1 shot one of my Comp Bows and I high tailed it out of there! I seen Monty take Didos capital and brought some troops to get her last city which had Solomons's Mines within the borders so I thought hey... Manpanzee says: "we are all missing out on that Wonder" so I vulched her and wiped her off of this planet for good. So you can get those mines another way .

I haven't had a Baktun yet but it is comming. Im pretty sure Im gonna rush NC with a GE first. Im hoping to steal Education off of the Aztecs and it is just going to be him and I on this Cont soon enough. I want to ally up with all the CS's in the way first for some help. Im using trade routes into him for the gold to buy the CS's.

The bad news is he has the GW and it is gonna be a pain so Im going to try to play nice till I get Dynamite. Pretty fun game though with alot of choices and it is not clear if it is a win for me yet or not. I have not met any of the Civs on the other side of the world yet. I better get Venice before I meet them!

I enhanced the Church of the Maya... I went Asceticism for all that happy since I have 6 Pyramids which is a nice +6 happy and Rel Texts ofcourse. The Church is spreading and should take over for alot of gpt (+2 per city).

So far only 10% in tech which is on pace as usual. After thinking a bit it may have been better to allow Venice in the game and try for Monty or Carthage first but his land is a Nightmare and the GW isn't fun either.

15 more turns to... 126

Spoiler :

I saved up a bunch of gold and upgraded 9 Comp Bows to Xbows and 3 Spears to Pikes but never used any of those and only a few Xbows. One of the CS's gifted me a Seige Tower which was awesome but not needed. However I used it anyway . Im 2nd in land, 3rd in Gold, 5th in Production, and 6th in Military Might. The Aztecs have the largest Army with 127k to my 62k which is easy to take out but since he has alot of jungle and the GW I really don't want to fight yet. Although the sooner the better. I have control over 3 out of the 5 CS's and would like those 5 before the war. I think they would help very much so. I did get my first Baktun and rushed the NC on turn 117 which isn't horrible in retrospect. I dunno if it would of been better to have the early NC and rush Machu now instead of Petra. I would say Id love Petra before the Nerf a year or so ago but Petra isn't as awesome as it used to be and since I do not have a high pop yet I dunno if it is doing any good really. I guess you could say that it is going to be awesome later down the road. Either way I have to sleep in the bed that I made. Im pretty sure all that is needed now is for me to take over this Cont to win but who knows what is going on over on the other side of the world. I am 12% (40%-28%) behind in tech from the leader right now so... you know. I decided to faith buy two missionaries to help spreading the faith and I am getting 26gpt for that so that is 13 cities, so not great but not bad. I don't think tithe would of beat that since I am staying with low pop.

I wanted to steal Edu from the Aztecs but sometimes they don't have it so I am planning on Chiv instead and just teching up to Edu by turn 134. I always see Conts maps teching slow so I am not worried for now. Pretty funny my puppet (Venice is 3 pop higher than my Cap). I used to always take MOG with the Maya since that +2 spt for each city connected is pretty nice when you are trying to go wide but I decided not to this game .

I also got into Commerce and usually go Wagon Trails (I just noticed this is Wagon Trains lol. Years of thinking it was Trails. It should be Trails not Trains in my mind) but this time I went Merc Army hoping to get into Mercantilism for cheap unit purchases. Oh and Monty is all green mods right now but I have seen that be fake before. I hope he doesn't ask for a DOF because it might be hard to refuse to abuse the AI with stealing all his gold !

Edit: Stop playing faster than me Shark Diver ! I guess all my warmongering is slowing my turn time down!

 

t200 Update

Spoiler :

I sent the Admiral off to meet the other continent, but World Congress was founded while in route. I did get to propose WF. Admiral found a Wonder to satisfy a couple CS requests, but given all of the AI who took Patronage, Diplo is out.

I had started PT as the only civ with Rationalism open, but it was going to take me 30 turns to finish. My spy told me Korea was building it, even though he hadn't opened Rationalism (oddity…..I think I've seen this before). I aborted and he built it 5 turns later.

Monte surprisingly isn't making any headway on Venice, other that rolling a nearby CS. Korea is a science monster and has the strongest military. Rammy and Poca are cultural beasts and are tied for best civ score. With WF coming up, I joined Rammy in DoW'ing Poca, hoping to distract them from WF. Not a chance……even with 5 cities all on production mode and a GA going on, I got rolled in WF.



This presents a problem, as I hadn't finished Tradition, and only had Rationalism opener. I popped a couple of GW's to finish Tradition. I then Oxforded to Radio and took Freedom as 1st ideology. Korea would open Order about 5 turns later and nobody else has one yet. My next few policies will go into Rationalism, as I don't think I need the Foreign Legionaires just yet. I've got over 2000 gold banked and have over 100 GPT, so I can always buy units if I need to.

Poca settled right in my back yard, right next to Utique and I couldn't faze that city in our short war. Legionaires may be able to take that out, but it's not necessary. He also managed to settle right next to Solomon's mines, so I guess there's a third way to get that NW. Monte still hasn't come for me, and my tech advantage should render him harmless by now. It looks like I'm definitely on the weaker continent, but I've got good infrastructure, 5 cities producing pretty well, and my only complaint is a lack of DoF's so only 1 RA going. I managed to capture 3 GP's from Poca, but none of them had full bars so I deleted all 3. My religion remains strong, but not dominant on the continent.

I GE'd Eiffel, and will finish it in a few turns. I'll have another GE ready for SoL, but will have to hard build Hubble, as even with 60 FPT, I'm going to need to buy some GS.

It's looking like a turtled up SV right now, but I may take out some cities if the opportunity arises.

Thru t247

Spoiler :

Well everyone has taken an ideology besides Venice, and I'm the only one who went Freedom. Come on, Venice!!! As one might guess, the unhappiness is killing my growth and I've already had one revolutionary wave. Because I opted to focus on science, I haven't used all of the happy ideologies yet, working through Rationalism first, but I'll get the -Unhappiness from specialists in about 10 turns, plus Neuscheieneiaststein in about 10 turns, so should be able to remain happy the rest of the way.



I've had a couple of RA's from Shoshone and Venice, but without finishing Rationalism or getting PT, they are rather puny. I'm still 3rd in science, but am over 800 BPT with a couple of Labs finishing up. I have 2 GS stored and several more on their way. I did manage to vote down Arts Funding (it was a tie).

I needed to GG to get some coal, and also to make that backyard settlement by Shoshone useless to him. This was perhaps a bit spiteful.

None of the wars are going anywhere, and I've only been denounced once. I finally found a couple of cultural CS, and spent some money getting to be allies. There are literally only about 8 CS left, so I don't think Diplo is gonna happen for anyone.

I've no navy to speak of, so that's next on the agenda……oh, I guess I could use some planes. I've got a ton of cash, and will likely be able to buy a couple of SS parts. it's all about tech'ing now, and I should be able to coast to SV (famous last words). This assumes I can trade for more Uranium…..as usual, I don't have squat for resources.

 

Ok 104 to 176

Spoiler :

Settled the truffle city, as I was a bit late venice managed to snaffle one of them, but I bought the other two.

As suggested above I took a great admiral as the 2nd person from the long count, and went to meet everyone else, to give me a market for other goods as much as anything else. Then took an engineer later.

Opened asthetics as I tend to do, as the opening bonus is nice, then took acoustics to be in the renaissance for opening up rationalism.

Just trying to sell my ivory across to ocean and catch up.

When the world congress opened up I proposed scholars in residence, which annoyed the shoshone, but probably had to be tried I think.

On turn 142 after I steal astronomy, allowing trade with the other continent, II see I am 10 techs behind the shoeshone, and they just entered the industrial era. I would say the porcalain tower and some crazy teching are going to be needed now, and all I am going to be able to manage is a science victory (maybe).

Turn 146 Dido finally loses her capital, hoping monte will go after Venice next.

Turn 150 we start the porcalain tower. I decide to chop the woods as well as without the PT I am done. As the long count comes up I take a great artist for a golden age as well. and take an inquisitor to make the whole city taoist for the %bonus per follower too.

Manage to get scholars in residence passed, and venice becomes host, so finally a friend!

The Shoshane get the first ideology and choose order.

Turn 176 I complete oxford university and get industrialistation, the shoshone are in modern though, and 9 techs ahead.

I am 5 techs behind korea, but pretty much caught up with everone else

Now I need to be friends with Venice, Carthage and korea for the research agreements, culture up a bit to get the rest of rationalism and try to out tech the shoshane. Plus of course not get killed the aztechs. Probably I am 3rd in their line of fire though, so can probably get away with it a bit there.

Currently got a research agreement with Korea and Venice. Should be able to get friends with Carthage, but probably monte will kill them soon.

I would like to take freedom ideology, but really worried about the what the dissidents might do

The my little empire. Note contains the coal locations, so careful there.

Spoiler :

Now I could use some help where to go from here if anyone has any suggestions.

Spoiler :

Lack of coal is a problem. Almost settled where the shoshone are, but was worried would slow down industrialisation, now of course no coal.

Think I will have to great general bomb either that coal or the coal down by Kabul. Kabul has 3 coal which is enough. The Shoshone have not got any to sell.

Think I will play it safe and just buy some tiles and general bomb the south coal which has 3. Then try to tech it out.

 

t100 update

Spoiler :

Well, I played on, LOL. I have been Allied with 2 Mil CS and Kabul, I was given 2 Cats and a Seige Tower (I have never used one, wow!). I bribed Monte to restart his war with Dido, he had begun massing troops up N. All that seige had to go somewhere... so I took Venice. It got hairy, as he had 2 Pikes, 2 Warriors, 2 Scouts and an Archer, and midway thru the battle he got a Great Galleas. So he killed a CB every turn. I only started with 2 in the vicinity, I was just scouting but got the border warning. Luckily he sent a Pike into the drink, and the other was in range of Uxmal for a few potshots.

So now I have 2 (3rd coming) CB, 2 Spear, 2 Cats and a ST. Not exactly enough to take Carthage, LOL. Dido went full Honor, and luckily Monte went 3 Piety and now 2 Liberty. He has his 4th city towards me. I want to settle the NE coast ivory AND Solomon's Mines (hide behind it on the hill) AND NE of that, maybe in reach of citrus.

It's all I can do not to grow my cities! I was finally able to steal a few workers from Budapest. Monte is the only civ with a religion but me, and he is spreading hard it appears. Went DF, Tithe, Pagodas, Choral Music, and Itin Preachers. May drop 2 into Piety, may take Commerce open, who knows. I plan to delay Renn to buy as many cheap Pagodas as I can.

Pissed that I lost Petra by 5 turns to Venice (mine now!), but it only has 2 desert in the radius now, sheesh. My center city would have become a monster. Venice also has GL. I popped a GE for Machu for Liberty closer, but hadn't noticed it had gone already. What a waste to get Guilds. [edit - got NC with it on t99 which is very early for me.] I would like to get Civ Serv next, but am thinking Theology to start the counter. This has felt like a very unfocused game.

 

Now I could use some help where to go from here if anyone has any suggestions.

Spoiler :

Lack of coal is a problem. Almost settled where the shoshone are, but was worried would slow down industrialisation, now of course no coal.

Think I will have to great general bomb either that coal or the coal down by Kabul. Kabul has 3 coal which is enough. The Shoshone have not got any to sell.

Think I will play it safe and just buy some tiles and general bomb the south coal which has 3. Then try to tech it out.

Spoiler :

I did use a GG for one of the coal spots. I won't tell you which, as one is a better choice, and I don't want to spoil the surprise for you. Generally, though, you can trade for the coal you need for factories. After that, you don't really need it. It's not a priority compared to oil or Aluminum.

 

Today I learned that Tradition/Liberty is only viable if you are Poland. And that, unfortunately, Rationalism/Secularism is mandatory in every game. I wish they fixed it so Tradition and Rationalism were not strictly superior on pretty much every difficulty level. It's kind of boring to know you have to pick a certain tree all the time.

At this point, I have no idea what I am doing. Not doing too bad, but I seriously question the game will drag long enough for my tourism to get up and running. Peaceful CV doesn't look possible. I am behind in tech, and AI's are running away like crazy.

 

Ok I have failed. Turn 228 is pretty much game over

Spoiler :

Was miles behind the shoshone, so was trying to tech as hard as possible. Was still 8 techs behind, but had a chance.

Then venice and Monte attack together and it is all over pretty much. Was hoping they would leave me alone as it was the only chance of a space victory.

Did not play out the war, but it was going to be a loss, and even if I could win was still 8-9 techs behind the shoshoane who had just build the appolo program, in 1580.

Maybe I should have kinda joined in his previous war. Or maybe was the ideologies that did it. Or maybe I should have had an army .

Peace all the way to the end and there might have been a shot, thought I might ahve been ok as I was not next to Monte and had a defensive pact with Venice, did not realise they would backstab.

Was intereseting though for sure!

 

Spoiler :

Well one has 3 coal, one has 7. One will not annoy anyone, one will get at least a bit of diplo agro from the shoshone. In the end I took the 3 as you just need 3 for the factories anyway and a war with the runnaway AI was not going to end well.

of course venice had later factories than me, so picked something else, which was probably a factor in my ultimate demise.

 

t314 Science Victory

Spoiler :

Venice did indeed go Freedom, but they didn't help happiness much. The 30+ turns of unhappiness really slowed down victory time, but I was happy as a pig in @#$%^ for the final 30 turns. IG was never even proposed, but not winning WF made the cultural game a big challenge.

There were wars going on pretty much the final 50 turns, with only Venice and Boudie losing any cities. Nobody was even close to a CV (nobody got influential over anyone) and final World Leader vote had nobody with over 14 votes (35 needed).

I did Lib/Trad and completed both. Completed Rationalism rather latish, and just finished Space Procurements on t305. I built 3 parts in Capital, and 1 more in each of 2 expos before buying the last. Final RA got the last tech, but I was going to have it in 2 turns anyways.

I alternated units with buildings the final 30+ turns, so was never worried about invasion. I indeed up with an extra 8000 gold, which is rare for me. Trading for Oil and Aluminum was easier than usual, but all other trades were like negotiating with a bunch of Alex-clones. After building 1 atomic bomb, everyone was afraid and I got two late DoF's. I never did open up my borders to anyone but Venice.

Fun map, even if the conclusion was mostly "next turn".





PS. I also learned that if you dig up an artifact underneath a holy site you lose the holy site. It didn't cost me as I had enough faith to buy 2 GS (and 3 earlier GE's), but it sure could have. It happened late enough that the loss of faith didn't make a difference.

 

Id have to disagree with the idea that only Tradition/Ratio works. I have played many games with Full Honor or Full Liberty and had no problem with a win. I have watched many LPs with the same outcome. I even seen people go Full Piety and win outright. I would say that Tradition/Ratio is very strong though but not mandatory to beat most Deity games.

Up to Turn 200

Spoiler :

Well as usual I got lazy and did not press into the Aztecs. It has been a very tough choice on when and if I am going to DOW them. I keep seeing all the CS's with all nice units and I have a pretty large army myself. Trade Routes and indecision keep me from attacking. I have had about 35-40 turns saying ok now is the time... now is the time lol! However I keep acting like a little girl and work on building instead of getting on with a war.

Nobody wanted Machu Pichu so I said F it I'll build it and got it on 159. I built the PT on turn 190 something and didn't want to gamble on it but I was spying on Korea and they had no interest in it. I stole techs from Poc, Monty and Korea so far. It was nice to steal Industry from Korea because I thought I was going to get it from Poc and all I got was Steal lol. Damn if Poc didn't vote for Embargoing the CS's and it passed. That was upsetting since I was going to use TRs to them instead of the Aztecs. Also a couple want a TR for influence but I can't make that happen lol! I've been dumping gold in them and doing some quests to keep them on my side. I could not believe Monty lost two spies trying to coup them. Remember when the AI could never miss the coup !?

I think I have 10 coal in my borders and had 7 instant coal from a mine. I sold most of it for 2gpt each and am getting it back to build some Factories. I wanted to Oxford Radio but decided to wait for either Plastics or Satellites to use it. Monty (Autocracy) got his Ideology very early and Korea (Order) just beat me to it. I could go Freedom and get the 2 tennets which would be nice but I love being a Commie Bastard! I can't choose if I should go Autocracy as well to keep happy with Monty. It is a very tough choice. Monty has Full Honor as well so a war might be tough on me.

I put the Artists Guild in Venice and Writers in my Cap. My relgion is starting to get beaten back from the Aztecs and now I wished I had gone Tithe as usual which would have netted me alot more gpt. In 5 turns I'll have Public Schools in all cities and I did annex both of my puppets. The lazy player that I am wants to just sit back and try for SV from here. I know I do not want to go Full Domination this game for sure but I might want to wipe out Monty if that is even possible.

Oh I forgot. I lost the WF by 100 hammers to Poc... 1100 to 1000 geesh! I got a late start on PT so that delayed Oxford so I couldn't get to the 2nd Ideology fast enough

WOW nice job with the win already Shark Diver!! I thought I played fast

Etheric... You still played a pretty good game. I have done worse getting rolled before turn 100 so you know it could of been alot worse. Keep at it and you'll get em next time!

Good Job Nigel... your starting to turn it around! Glad to see you not resign too early!

Edit: Geesh Shark Diver... Full Tradition, Full Liberty, and Full Ratio! You suck... Im jealous lol

 

Spoiler :

Tough choices and that's exactly why I almost always use Oxford for Radio to get to ideologies. it's much faster than building factories, plus you get an extra spy earlier AND pretty much an automatic Eiffel. I also think it's probably a good idea to not only DoW a runaway, but get others to do the same……..only way to slow them down and it might even affect ideological choices. Make the world hate the runaway. It doesn't always work, but it's better than having the game dictated to you (which I learned painfully TWICE with the Rome game).

 

I agree with F.A. that you can win with many different social policy routes. My best games usually mix Lib and Trad, if not completing both.

If more than one AI is running away, I think they deserve to fight each other, don't you? Just tech like crazy and pass them up late. You only have to have to be first to Hubble and you should have tech lead from there on out.

@ F.A.

Spoiler :

Thanks. Games go faster when you turtle up like I did. I could have taken out Venice at any time, but they went Freedom so……Monte never did come after me, so I let him off the hook as well. I should have nuked Poca just for settling in my back yard, but I only got one built before non-proliferation passed.

Petra was a huge help this game, as having 2 super-cities that could build Wonders is a very nice luxury (well, they'd have been super if they had grown more). Maybe I should focus my trade routes a bit more, but I like to spread them out to have balanced cities.

I thought it interesting that the "stronger" continent had borders that were fixed for 150 turns, and all of the city-sacking was done on my continent.

 

Spoiler :

Yeah, but just barely got all three trees completed and 6 in Freedom…..made it with only 9 turns to spare. This is what happens when you lose WF, which is rare when you have 5+ cities and have had time to build Workshops, AND have the runaways involved in wars (not to mention being in a GA. I still got rolled in WF, actually built Opera Houses everywhere (very rare for me), got Eiffel, and still barely got all of the policies done. This was cutting it a bit close, as I needed every single one of those SP.

 

Turns 201-322

@ Shark Diver

Spoiler :

I lost WF too but it was odd losing with over 1000 production to 1100 of Poc's . Usually 700 is enough in most of my games.

Spoiler :

Long story short... I decided to go Freedom since I never do that and wanted to see how it worked. Anyways... it worked just as I thought. I know that people use it all the time and win easy but I had some trouble with it. The whole world went Order except for Monty. It wasn't so bad but when the Revolutionary Wave hit I just said ok I'll switch to Order which killed all but 1 Tenet.

I almost always go Order and if I don't I get into wars with Autocracy but hey what the heck I had this game sown up very early so I tried something else for a change. I also had a huge Army that I didn't care to use because I was a bit bored after the switch in Ideology. It was pretty simple to get an SV with Order from the get go.

I still almost made it work switching and rushing the Shuttle Parts and since it took 3 turns to travel the last part to the Capital Poc decided to blast off instead ... If you look you can see my last part in the Capital in the pic below. The game was still fun and if I would of just been a man and went to war with the Aztecs it would of been even more fun. Next time I suppose I won't be so lazy, however I can't help but be lazy! Im pretty sure it would of been easy to Roll Monty since he was Afraid since about turn 210 and begged me to DOF a few times. I think it was all the units I had and the CS's had and he was in alot of wars.

I am glad to see the AI launch at a reasonable turn time though. Im guessing with Spaceflight Pioneers I launch at around turn 310-315. Perhaps sooner since I would of had Science Factories earlier and in all my cities. Oh and after the two turn switch to Order I went from -10 happy to +27!!

This loss is ok though since I won many a games where the AI should of launced over me and decided not to .

EDIT: Ok I adjusted it Pythonic

Spoiler :

but I do not see how that spoils it. It isn't like you know where they are. You just know that it is in the game.

LOL you need to delete that quote since it says what you don't want it to say on your post

 

Spoiler :

Please keep the spoilers in spoilers tags for us folks who haven't gotten around to playing the save yet (although I shouldn't be reading the thread at all TBH...). Thanks.

 

@ F.A.

Spoiler :

Ouch! Losing on the last turn is painful. Did you choose to switch to Order, or did the game force you into it? I was at -16 happiness at one point, but knew I could recover with all of Freedom's happiness giving tenets, so I slogged through. I took Foreign Legion tenet early, as I felt I needed the troops, but that wasn't the case for you, so I'm thinking you could have gotten the happiness from specialists and stuck it out. Just a thought, as I think switching is pretty painful.

Anyways, my new rule of thumb is going to be to lob a few nukes at any AI that gets 4 SS parts built.

It would be nice if AI occasionally took Freedom to balance the ideologies out.

 

OK, T191 is the last turn for me. Nevertheless I enjoyed this game

Spoiler :

After 70 turns of war alone vs Aztecs I think it is time to retire since my economy and growth has been severely crippled. There is no way they will make a peace deal. Probably I could have concentrated much more on military and taken a few Aztec cities (and thus a peace deal) but that was not my initial plan in this game. The plan was to take out Venice which I did and then grow 4-5 cities. Unfortunately Aztecs took out Carthage and became a monster alone with me on one continent. I have stopped nonstop waves of his troops but he just kept sending more and more.

If anyone is interested Petra was build in the 2nd Carthagian city at around T100 which was later razed by Aztecs. Ironic isn't? I was like 2 turns away from getting petra with GE.

Overall it was fun

 

There is a lot of discussion for this game, which is really fun! I can't believe how fast some of you play - so I have been dodging spoilers ahead of my time frame.

t106

Spoiler :

I saw Machu get built a few turns after I popped my Liberty GE, so I realized the problem was my mtn was not within my borders. I reloaded and took it - too much drain bamage in the 70s I guess... Got denounced by Venice, Dido is hostile, and Monte made peace, getting Dido's expo in the deal. I just got 2 more units from the Mil CS's, another ST and a Cat. These are basically worthless, as I'm going to get swarmed by Monte soon. So 5 seige and 1 Spear given, wtf? This has never happened before.

I'm sure I could take Dido's cap now, but there is so much jungle in between, and it would leave all my units away from defense. Monte has LS and Trebs now, great. I am building CB's, I am heading to Theology, but I should have gone for XBs I guess. 6 turns to NC, so I won't even have walls up when he comes. I have never switched research and building queues so much in a game before!

 

Spoiler :

Oh man, I'd love to see what you could do with 5 ST's. Just walk of to Monte's capital and 1-turn capture it, sue for peace, cause you probably can't keep it. Would be fun to see the attempt.