1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Deity Challenge Lineup #12 - The Maya

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by consentient, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,472
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    @ Shark Diver

    Spoiler :
    I look at this as a technical loss because I played each turn with no reloads and the outcome was Poc beat me to a launch. If you really look at my game this was a win in reality even though the defeat screen popped up :). I have had many games where the victory screen popped up but it did not feel like a win. It was a technical win but the AI should of beat me to a VC very easy. Things like the AI not launching all it's parts when it could of or when they have 32k gold and do not buy out all the CS's when they could easily win a Diplo VC.

    This game is a little goofy like that sometimes you win but you really didn't win and sometimes you lose when you really didn't lose. This is one reason why people like Domination so much. When you actually put in the time to Dominate the world... nobody can say you really didn't win or you really didn't lose. You forced the issue and you won for sure.

    I was only -10 happy at worst case. I could of made it look like -2 in a hurry with some large gold deals for lux trade. I wasn't sure how much more unhappy would happen. Is a revolutionary wave at -32 the highest it can get? That wouldn't matter either since all I needed to do was build some happy buildings and get some more happy with tenets like you suggest. I took FL too just because I was gonna stomp Monty but I could of easily taken -1/2 happy for specialists. I think if you look at my game you can see I was fooling around alot :). The game was already won and I was sorta experimenting and being lazy.

    I think the game forces us to either choose Order mostly or Autocracy for an easier win. That doesn't mean Freedom isn't easy either you just need to set up your empire to absorb the unhappy that is comming. Actually I love Order anyway since I find the choices in it better for my playstyle.

    Perhaps I will just play Domination games from now on to not fall into this mess. However that takes me double to triple the amount of time to finish a game so Im not sure I will convert so easily :).

    On a side note if I had Full Tradition like yourself I would not even have to think about it. Monarchy takes care of everything and I have soooo much faith I buy GE's like candy and rush parts all day long! Another thing I was thinking, if I was a littler smarter, I could of built a railroad from Venice to my Capital to maybe shave off one turn for the win but I was very lazy and didn't think about that even though I knew a 3 turn trip to the Capital might be too much! I had my workers just idle lol.

    This loss doesn't bother me at all. I actually was rooting for Poc to launch on the turn that he did :). The games that really bug me are the games that sometimes happen to me like the Dido Map you rolled. I really lost that game because my ego wouldn't let me stop the war with the Arabs and since I stalemated for too long I lost for real!!
     
  2. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 King

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    690
    Location:
    Great Plains of North America
    @SD
    Spoiler :
    I lined up my 2 ST's (3 Cats behind city) on my side of the river, to keep his melee on the other side. What with cover and 12 strength, I assumed they would act as meat shields, but they took no hits for a few turns. He sent a LS around my right flank with a CB and GG. I lost a couple units killing the LS and GG, war of attrition, as his Trebs whack my Spears petty hard. This is by far the bloodiest battle I have ever had defending - he only has 1 melee left and cap is at full health. I will have lost 1/3 to 1/2 of all my units, and am 5 turns away from XBs, LOL. Much too late. I probably should have DOW'd him while he was next to my CS allies, derp.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,587
    It's not mandatory, but it's easier to play and guarantees good results. It's like people figured out that you can just get 4 CB's/XB's and take 1-2 capitals early on, then get Artillery/Bombers for the rest. Sure, you can try building catapults and horsemen, but it is still harder to do than CB/XB rush into Artillery.

    I think Liberty is better than Tradition once you hit ~t250 because all your cities will be big, with good gold, happiness, hammer, culture, and science generation but that point -- which will overshadow Tradition starts -- is already too late for Diety where you have to win around t300. If games lasted 400-500 turns, Liberty would be better (and Piety, too).

    I have been trying to play and ignore Rationalism, but that pretty much always guarantees being behind in tech.


    I am not going for Hubble, since I am aiming for a peaceful CV. Unfortunately, Siam is sitting at 30k culture t239 because he got a bunch of wonders and won WF, but he also has the second highest military after Monte, who has been trying to take Venice for the past 70 turns. Enrico is secretly a master tactician?

    I will try to win, but just given the amount of tourism I must generate, it doesn't seem plausible to win anywhere in the next 100 turns. We'll see.
     
  4. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,472
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I agree with everything you said. I have seen people ignore Rationalism and win though. They tend to warmonger the whole game and dominate the world and use Full Liberty or Full Honor with Full Commerce. Ofcourse we both agree that Rationalism is the stronger policy though. I don't think the game will ever have true balance. One Policy is always going to be stronger over the other but I think it is viable to win without Ratio, it is just a pain to learn how to do it and it may not always be a viable option.
     
  5. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,587
    I am not talking about warmongering. I am talking about peaceful CV, which heavily relies on getting to the Internet asap and faithbuying/producing musicians. As expected. Korea launched on t306. Siam had 60k culture. I think, I might have had a chance if I went Liberty/Rationalism, but even then I am not very sure. This is actually not the first game where I fail a CV because of Siam.
     
  6. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Spoiler :

    Why does the paragraph above remind me of "White Men Can't Jump"?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-2u5jIfjxo

     
  7. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Spoiler :

    I'm sorry, but when you realized that there was a cultural runaway (common), why not adjust your game plan and Hubble towards SV? I had to do so on the Polynesia game, and it was a most satisfying (lucky) win. I'd rather be wrong and win than be right and lose…..or something like that.

    My point being, you played the early and mid-game well. The victory was there, but it sounds like you were stubborn. If someone has 60k in culture, no amount of Al Gore's creations, including Internet, are going to overcome it very often. Hubble would have given you options, and those 2 GS could have gotten you to internet just as quickly as the straight beeline if that made sense.

    Hubble…..always Hubble.


     
  8. consentient

    consentient Domination!

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    3,331
    Peaceful CV on Deity is simply not enjoyable for me. Every time I've achieved it, I've had a dream start and it's still been an absolute grind, with the exception of doing it with Sweden, who I think people seriously under-rate. If you are lucky to enjoy 3 or 4 DoFs for the whole game, and fill out Patronage before Freedom, the sheer number of GP is crazy.

    Much more fun (and easier) is warmongering CV.

    I think peaceful CV is only enjoyable on Immortal and below.
     
  9. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Due to weather I decided to spend a day indoors multitasking between this & cleaning the garage so I managed 150 turns in one day which is rare for me.
    The start looked too good for Pacal so few extra rules, no Guilds, no Rationalism, no internal caravans or horse units and up to T26 I was doing fine but since then it's been downhill with variable degree of steepness.


    A short recap now included.

    Spoiler :



    Settled on site, DoWed Venice T16 to steal a worker after few turns of camping and 2nd worker on T26. Same turn I also stole one from Budapest and due to two culture ruins kicked out a free settler and was thinking this going nicely. T33 Desert Folklore but Monte was going Piety which didn't promise good.
    T45 DoF with Honor Dido but no luck starting a war between her & Monty while both asked me to join such a war. T55 denounced me without an apparent reason but she has never needed one and the DoW came few turns later. Luckily she split the troops and I managed to build walls in Palenque on time; Chitzen wasn't under any serious threat. T65 4th religion but only Cathedrals left from happiness buildings. I also made white peace with Pizza-Enrico i hope on DoF but the bloody bat denounced me and was mostly too poor to buy my stuff anyway.






    T75 made a serious bargain before DoWing Dido but it seemed worthwile. Despite of Piety only Monte's capital had religion so I went for 2nd prophet before spreading and not to my enjoyment four turns later all his 4 cities, Utique & at least 3 CSs were converted but at least T85 enhancing was decent. Meanwhile I was struggling with poverty & miserability in classic Liberty style.
    T88 Liberty finished & GE heading for Tikal, T92 4c NC, T93 Petra in Tikal and as far as kept looking closely enough Enrico didn't start to build it. T94 Oracle, Theology & Honor opened.




    T101 GAdmiral as the first GP to scout the deep waters, T106 finally DoF with Venice, T113 Education, T115 peace with Dido as she only had one city, T116 Sejong started spying, T120 DoWed Monty as he had 4 missionaries available to kill, T124 Machinery after which I actually started moving towards his lands and killed a Venetian spy - I was expecting to kill Monte's & Dido's Spooks, T139 WC by me & T142 took 1st & so far only Aztec city. Due to not having enough shooting practice I severy lack range XBows and every freakin' city is on a hill behind a hill from few directions so it's basically feeding workers in hope of getting a suicidal mustketman to emerge - no change of hitting a city, nevermind taking one though that might kill the chance for future DoFs.
    T152 LToP which is where I left the game.

    Sejong, Poca & Boudicca also opened Honor but no one seems to care about swapping arrows with anyone.

    No immediate happiness problems but I could use a lot more money and the classic funny thing happened while I let Kongo drop from being an ally - Monte allied it on same turn and a Kongolese caravel was camping on Uxmal three turns later; my allies have no interest whatsoever in engaging battle so I'm units for Almaty, too to keep my road intact.
    I've killed two Venetian spies & forgiven twice as AI is totally incapable of switching the target so I won't be renewing the DoF; I'd rather kill him but that might seem like an overkill.

    I was hoping much faster growth and I'm behind everyone but Dido in tech. Pocatello has as many cities as the 4 combined on my continent and is leading in everything including dominant religion, Sejong build HS in front me but has no religion and everyone apart from Dido has at least 2 WWs.
    I'm saving cash for GG upgrades or factories but it seems I don't have the luxury of choosing first an ideology; any ideology. Some sort of happiness buffer would be nice before ideologies kick in as I have zero tourism and barely larger cpt.
     
  10. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,587
    Oh, did M'banza-Kongo gift those siege towers? I was never allied with them because they were my worker farm. I did not steal a single worker from the AI's, but I stole 4 or 5 workers from M'banza. Basically, parked my warrior two tiles away from that Ivory and got a prize every 7-10 turns. Was fun.



    Hubble is always there -- to the point where I simply do not want to play SV any more. It's the most boring VC to me.


    I never play as a warmonger, but I think I should try to do warmongering CV. I have already started experimenting with warmongering/bootcamping, and it's not too bad. Plus, it's some variety. I want to revisit that Arabia ICL and do some continent-clearing. Have never done that before. I wonder if I should read a guide/watch an LP or just yolo it myself.
     
  11. consentient

    consentient Domination!

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    3,331
    @adcarrymaokai


    I am positive you are a better player than me, and I found the Arabia ICL really easy after getting quite used to Deity.

    My single piece of advice for warmongering CV is to choose victims by the order of how much you need their wonders, if possible. Getting Notre Dame at the right time can be game-breaking.
     
  12. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,472
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    @ Grendeldef's Strategy

    Spoiler :
    Half way through my game I realized your way might of been better. Even though my way would of worked if I would of just started attacking with all the troops I built plus 3 CS gifts every 14 turns and the 5 CS allies that I had to help. However I just got lazy and tried to SV up after I had the game won. After looking at your start I think it makes more sense to keep Venice in the game and take out Monty and Carthage first before taking out Venice. Ofcourse I did not like the idea of Pizza-Enrico (LOL) using his MOVs to take my allies.

    Pretty sick how an AI without a religion will build the HS!


    @ Shark Diver

    Spoiler :
    That video went perfect with my statement lol! I just realized your in the Cayman Islands. I took a trip down there a few years ago. I had a really nice time doing some snorkeling and driving around the island in a jeep. I also stopped at a small house who made us some really authentic island food! It was funny since there was actually 2 restaraunts with the same name but I found the right one that was suggested to me from a local. The older lady made us some awesome grouper wich was the first time I have had that and loved it. I also had a really nice chicken dish and I had to try the Goat since I never had it. Amazing and I guess the drink of choice down there is fruit punch which was a little sweet but fresh!
     
  13. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    470
    Not the greatest game ever:

    Turn 103

    Spoiler :


    ruins were good, culture, pop, map, upgrade, 40 faith(lol never got 40 faith(pre pantheon, but post 1st religion)

    All religions went pre turn 80, no way to found one even though i prioritized the UB, so to bad I'm gonna lose my +1 food from camps at some point.

    Got all the barb camp quests near me so i got 4 free units so far, but lost 1 atlantits to barbs which i bought early.

    Lost Oracle turn 78, would have finished it on turn 80 which is a 9 out of 10 from my experience or at least close to that.

    Stole 1 worker from Ur and 2 settlers from Dido, just made white peace with her and bribed monty in for just 1 double luxury few turns ago. With my 2 additional workers about to finish i will have 6 which means i will be in good shape soon.

    Got my academy pre Education, because i can^^, NC late with 3 cities on turn 95.

    I wonder, if i should prioritize a granary over the UB in my 4th city ???

    Got my money banked for a university btw.

     
  14. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Spoiler :

    Dido's mandatory backstab came so early that Venice only had one city so leaving him be seemed a safe option besides Liberty rarely is self-supportive early on so I was hoping a decent trading partner. Had he taken a city earlier I'd have gladly taken Venice before peace - the delay might've had something to do with me killing a couple of MoVs.
    The other obstacle was lack of money hence I had no CBs but only Atlatlists and military CS trio I only allied a turn before DoWig Monty hence I couldn't keep'em all more than few turns but the Siege Towers became very handy. As so often quite a large proportion of my modest income went for buying tiles.

    Sadly, a non-religious AI building HS isn't even rare but happens quite often. I assume it's because an AI has some free space in it's wonder whoring quota more than anything else. I'm far too cynical to see a more logical reason for it.




    Pre-pantheon faith ruin gives whatever is needed for the next pantheon.
     
  15. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    470
    Well than i guess i wouldn't have found a pantheon without that ruin at all, haha, even with the UB from pacal, which was build even before i finished the monument, because i wanted it so bad.
     
  16. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    @ F.A.

    Spoiler :

    Grand Cayman some of the time. California right now. Not sure I have a home anymore, but Caymans would be it.

     
  17. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    470
    Cayman Islands wtf? You better pay your goddamn taxes to the country where you got your education from :D
     
  18. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Whoever said I was educated? I hope I haven't given THAT impression.
     
  19. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    470
    Just a joke anyway obv^^

    turn 193, looks like that's game over

    Spoiler :

    I was his 1st target for the whole game had to bribe him 2 times with his units at my border. Now he has the whole continent and it's only me left. That's what i call a carpet of doom. Even if he doesn't get a city(don't see much range units) He will pillage everything. I can go Oxford Dynamite real quick, but the mistake was not to go Domination earlier or at least go for monty as long as he was busy with Dido.


    it's always amazing how much effort firaxis, 2k put's in his games. He just donatet 6 prophets to me while declaring war and entering my territory. Doesn't feel right, it just looks like the ai is considering the prophets as beeing actual military units.
     
  20. Manpanzee

    Manpanzee Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    310
    Targeting a spaceship launch around T270. I feel like I'm having a strong game relative to the AI constraints I'm facing. Spending way too much money on unit maintenance/upgrades, but that's what happens when you get stuck next to an aggressive runaway.

    Spoiler :
    --Two wars with Monty so far, without much impact. One was a defensive war in which nothing happened, another was an offensive war in which I took advantage of a convenient opportunity to liberate Budapest and then made peace once that goal was achieved. Monty has been at war with Venice and Carthage pretty much constantly, but my city locations have prevented him from getting enough units through to actually accomplish anything. It's a funny situation... feels like Venice and Carthage are both minor powers under my protection.

    --I am still 3rd of 4th in tech, and Monty has the lead. He's the only AI in Rationalism and he built the Porcelain Tower. I really have never had a sufficient edge to attack him. The good news is my teach steal has been awesome, and Venice proposed Scholars in Residence, which passed. Total tech costs for victory will be unusually low this game.

    --Despite my tech deficit, I was able to get first Ideology. Went with Freedom, which seems like a no-brainer given my lack of Tradition/Engineer purchasing.

    --World's Fair is coming up in 7 turns. I've just started my eternal Golden Age and am focusing on hammer buildings. My culture has been kind of poor this game, and I really really want to win the Fair. I think I have a decent shot. I'm behind a bit on hammers, but Korea is the only AI who isn't at war, so I think if I commit to it I'll be able to get there.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page