The Deity Challenge Lineup - Game # 4 - Sweden

Make anti aircraft gun rather ?

Ah, those. That would work :p

I guess I was being stubborn in that war (and in the previous war with Darius), trying to force units into position at the cost of losing chunks of my army. Not an ideal strategy on a low hammer start :lol:

Nice work clearing the map so effectively from your "slow" tech start :)
 
The slightly longer version with pics from T227 to the end.

Spoiler :



T230 bribed Darius to attack Theo to keep him busy on two fronts while safe guarding Poca's frontal city to avoid Darius capturing it. T235 Plastics and few RLs as I badly need beakers amongst other things.
T236 1st trade route CS quests - too bad it's behind Shaka & Darius. T240 Liberate Kuala Lumpur, give some additional money but Darius allies still it and it gots captured by Theo. T240 Austria offers DoF which changes the plan so I stop selling cities to Darius though he isn't paying nowhere near as much as I hoped for. Huge boost to my income nevertheless. T247 Germany switches to Freedom & backstabs me. Later he also backstabs Maria & Poca which is a bold move from a man without an Army.
T252 Shaka RIP. The bugger had 3k gold, 30gpt, no units, no friends and still would only accept white peace so I'd finished him off as I needed a nice city for my still-to-come Persian holiday. Darius builds Manhattan on next turn which makes me a bit worried.



T268 Maria backstabs me so I'm reevaluation my options again but since my trade routes go to or through her I don't wanna start a war. T273 out of the blue Darius & Poca gang on Maria so I denounce Darius after twice refusing his DoF offer and attack on T275. Had to borrow money from Poca to ally CSs with Uranium. A bit earlier than planned my road network on his borders and within neighbouring CS is pretty comprehensive. Two captured cities sold to Theo & Poca keep me safe within their borders as Darius doesn't yet have OB with Poca - the road building task continues on their territory. With 7 bulbed GS I'll get to RAs and Mobile SAMs for their safety - lack of horse units is not good but without money & hammers I didn't much build those. T285 end of OB from Poca creates a danger spot but luckily I'll get it on next turn without losing units though the repositioning takes time.



Things started to go wrong when Darius upgraded his GA boosted troops and really wasn't short of them. The whole Zulu war & early turns of Persian one I managed without losing a unit but this caught my eye - that worker killed two bombers on that turn so I started paying a bit more attention again.
As I couldn't see a reason for the kills I reloaded from earlier autosave, played the same as much as I could remember and ended with this; pretty much same units & positions.



After replaying a number of times this & the next turn the result was always the same. Bombing the either the Infantry or RA would result 2 dead bombers while from the 3rd one the result would be more expected one. Starting with the worker the 1st will be killed while the other one survived with single digit hp ~30% of the cases. Moving suicidal units deeper into Persian lands revelead nothing to cause the deaths - the game just decided that it's time to lose some bombers as well.
On a normal game I wouldn't have paid too much attention to this but I was taking great care of my units a single loss was worth noticing.
After a thinking this for a while I decided to continue on replayed T288 and stop bombing altogether until stealth for few turns later. That saved two of my bombers, made some room for Persian comeback but nothing major.



Just one of those annoying bugs/graph glitches in the game - one can never be sure what's there in the battlefield. Whether nuking a city would kill the planes in there seemed like lottery - didn't much hamper his ability to bomb me but that's not a novelty. Just a reminded why I've quit playing this game more than once.



More common graph glitch but tricky to spot occasionally. Switching the view usually helps but I can't be bothered to that on every turn just because.



T298 Persepolis down but Darius isn't at all keen on peace. Too bad he was whoring money & units instead of wonders - only Forbidden P has some value out of the 3.



After Liberating Riga & pillaging all his oil Darius is willing for peace but doesn't give up his money but the crappy cities but since I don't have time to play with him anymore I'll take & raze, sell or give away the cities to keep up global disliking between everyone.
The most interesting thing here is the T307 pikeman standing on horses. Not a bad secondary city either - 3 luxes, coal & oil.

T310 DoW Nappy & take Paris 3 turns later with SBs - his rare troops were trying to kill Theo somewhere else.
T313 DoW Germany to get access to Theo as my OB from Poca is again running out on very unconvenient time. Also paid Poca to DoW Darius to get him moving troops away from the capital area. T317 Poca's willing to DoW Theo for peanuts so my troops on her border won't make that much noise.



T321 Friendship is over and I DoW Theo taking one city & dropping XComs near Constantinople which falls on next turn. Poca wasn't pleased when I DoWed him, too - used RAs & SBs for Berlin and nukes on Vienna & Moson K.





T323 Berlin, Vienna & Moson K - apparently Poca had no planes around as my 6-pack XCOMs were clearly an overkill for the last cities.

Policywise full liberty - should play Tradition but I dislike it for being too passive and a safe option while with Liberty one can fail in blazing glory. Commerce opener for money, Tradition opener for border expansion then full Rationalism and few in Order.

All GAs used for golden ages, 2 GSs planted rest bulbed including 3 bought with faith others gifted to CSs including quite a few GGs as I didn't make a single GG bombing.

The start could've been much better but when Shaka came with T30 3-move spearmen and T40 swordmen I gave up the idea of capturing Ulundi. Sadly he wasn't keen on attacking my frontal cities either so my xp gathering plan failed miserably. Even worse was the early DoW with Manila which I couldn't shoot at all before xbows.
Funny thing with Shaka was that while he lost a city to Bismarck early on, was war with Darius & me as soon as he got Impi he killed the Persian invaders, rolled over Germany, took Kuala Lumpur and had the largest Army in no time until Darius' money & tech progression got him the 1st spot.

As for Sweden I didn't much benefit from the UUs but even more so from the UA, not a surprise really but just emphasizes that Sweden is good for pretty much everything. With the gifted GPs I had 3-4 allies for most of the time without money the only quests I could fulfill being the get-a-lux ones. Fortunately most of AIs went Order so didn't need tourism in the game. First own Great Works came on T300+ as I was too lazy to walk accross the continent.

















 
More common graph glitch but tricky to spot occasionally. Switching the view usually helps but I can't be bothered to that on every turn just because.

Does anyone else notice this graphical bug happens with Darius more than anyone else? I don't know if it is true, but from my experience it sure seems to be the case. Every time I go to war with him I am constantly switching back and forth from strategic view just to find his hidden units.
 
I haven't played enough to see a pattern here - it happens with everyone and everywhere and seems totally random.
 
t282 Domination

Spoiler :

When loading up my save I decided to pick up Nanotech rather than Stealth, since it is faster, and should be equally capable of rapidly clearing the board.

While a few stragglers went after Constantinople the main army marched north to Shoshone lands:



There are only three land tiles adjacent to Paris, so it will take a few turns for these X-COMS to burn their way through to the angry French general:




Bismarck is protecting Berlin like he knows the script. No matter:




Ending Thoughts
Obviously this is the most challenging DC in this set of 4. Shaka is no joke and the map has a few extra hurdles: difficult to conquer, somewhat low hammers, and slow early luxuries.
 
i cant remember the last time i took an Austrian married CS. do you get to liberate it? part of me thinks no.

this thread is enormously entertaining. seeing the huge variance in how the AI treats each player and strategy is mind-boggling. this is why you are all deity level players. Persia was a runaway in one of these? didnt expect that. I expected Shaka's results in a few of these but seeing Grendeldef's forward settling on him was crazy. Winning a diplo with never getting to Info era? and buying a vote? crazy. starting with a 2nd city Kili? also crazy since the game still proved to be a big challenge with it. and glory7 lost this one? unbelievable! i also really like tefoqc's donating his GWs because the gains from that were greater than popping him.

ive never played Sweden at deity. ive already read the spoilers so i wont be trying this one (nor embarrassing myself on posting the results, haha) but this thread delivers on entertainment value. great deity challenge, dinglebirdy!
 
i cant remember the last time i took an Austrian married CS. do you get to liberate it? part of me thinks no.

You are correct: no Liberation option for a married CS. I wasn't totally certain either but Ife definitely didn't have that option. I forgot to check if I could raze it though. Anyone know? I might have a save where I can check that later.

Another rare mechanic: Sweden can gift GP from a distance using the Gift Unit menu option; even though the tooltip says the gift will result in 5 Influence the full 90 is gained when the GP arrives. I was more than happy to gift extra generals and great musicians. Writers are mine, however.
 
victorious with #2 and #3 and have won a couple deity games that are not part of the lineup. #4 is not going to happen for me sadly. On my fifth and likely last try I was faced with the harsh reality that past performance is not indicative of future success. Two of my games go after shaka from the start. build archer archer archer archer. show up to take him but never get his city low enough before he comes out to kill all my units. Other games he settled right next to me and I was able to take those cities but never his capital. tried to avoid war with him even moved my capital to the wonder once but shaka found me. Never had the money to make him go away. My most successful game went into the 150s before he came to my borders. Infastructure was my plan that game.All trade routes went to him and he didn't care.Had no army didn't even try to play through the war. who's as hard as shaka in this game? Anyone even close? Iv heard alex is tough but he cant compare to shaka right? What makes opponents hard to deal with in this game? iv always though hyper aggression and rapid expanders make for difficult opponents and shaka is both. Wonder what you guys think?
 
To be honest I was lucky to kill Shaka with archers in my post page 2. I tried to do it once more and it required CB upgrades to kill him (T65ish). Still successful but my T55 kill was a bit lucky (he parked a wounded horseman in Ulundi if I remember).
 
You are correct: no Liberation option for a married CS. I wasn't totally certain either but Ife definitely didn't have that option. I forgot to check if I could raze it though. Anyone know? I might have a save where I can check that later.

Another rare mechanic: Sweden can gift GP from a distance using the Gift Unit menu option; even though the tooltip says the gift will result in 5 Influence the full 90 is gained when the GP arrives. I was more than happy to gift extra generals and great musicians. Writers are mine, however.

Im confused about the great person gifting. I don't need to walk my great person into city state lands or do I? If I gift a great person to a cty state across the map doesn't my great person just walk there and becomes exposed to barbs?
 
who's as hard as shaka in this game? Anyone even close?

No one is close to Shaka in terms of a challenging warmongering neighbor. Oda Nobunaga is a distance second, imo. Attila/Ashurbanipal are hampered by their UUs as soon as the player learns to fight in the field against them. Genghis is poorly played by the AI. Napoleon/Monty are dangerous, but their units are nothing special. Alex is tougher but requires no special tactics, and is easy to bribe.

Shaka is perfectly set up to counter human play: Deity Impis have full Buffalo promos and so counter Ranged and Mounted units extremely well. They are hard to zone because of their extra movement. Their only "contemporary" counter is Longswords on a road network, which is a very costly tech detour. Also Shaka spams land units like no other AI - that is why I wanted to start the war early as possible (~t7 for me) and maintain it so he can't build up a critical mass. Even then there is a random element. Later in my game a one city Shaka with nothing but ~6 Impis easily help off a German army of 10+ units consisting of Rifles and Cannons.

Edit for GP gifting clarification: No walking, just gift the GP like you'd gift a warrior ;)
 
Alex is tougher but requires no special tactics, and is easy to bribe.

Alex is tough for me because he always allies a neighbor CS or two early. It makes my march to his lands too costly or makes my defensive positioning tough with their units also contributing. Shaka is surely number one, though. I just wait til his Impi window is closed. Or for Flight.
 
To be honest I was lucky to kill Shaka with archers in my post page 2. I tried to do it once more and it required CB upgrades to kill him (T65ish). Still successful but my T55 kill was a bit lucky (he parked a wounded horseman in Ulundi if I remember).

You and I basically did the same thing. I wrote about taking Ulundi with three archers, a chariot, and a spear, but in hindsight specifically remember attacking the city with at least two chariots, possibly three. The city was in a good position to negate his buffalo promotions because of the river. A flat land capital with that much exposure was about the greatest place Shaka could have been a next door neighbor.

Edit for GP gifting clarification: No walking, just gift the GP like you'd gift a warrior ;)

I don't think this is explained very well in the game. You gift a great person and several turns later you get a notification saying your influence has increased. I think there has been some confusion about this in the forums.
 
this thread is enormously entertaining. seeing the huge variance in how the AI treats each player and strategy is mind-boggling. [snip] i also really like tefoqc's donating his GWs because the gains from that were greater than popping him. [snip] great deity challenge, dinglebirdy!

I agree! Very entertaining, thx Dinglebirdy. I believe I planted 2 GS, and burned all for tech but the last one as a gift for CS influence. Every other GP was gifted, I had 0 tourism. :lol:

One other interesting feature of my game was how great Austria's religion was for me, I believe 2 happy/temple and 2 happy/garden. But Theo Missionary spammed all game, and so I only had the +14 happy advantage early. I only had enough faith to buy one Rel building of Theo's.
 
I expected Shaka's results in a few of these but seeing Grendeldef's forward settling on him was crazy.

Thx. One rarely gets complimented for a T323 game but yeah, it seemed like an interesting plan at the time.

great deity challenge, dinglebirdy!

Crappy game while playing it but indeed highly successful from challenge's pov - not a walk over and quite a few different approaches with this.

Another rare mechanic: Sweden can gift GP from a distance using the Gift Unit menu option; even though the tooltip says the gift will result in 5 Influence the full 90 is gained when the GP arrives. I was more than happy to gift extra generals and great musicians. Writers are mine, however.

This was my impression as well but my 1st long range gift only gave the 5 influence I walked across the continent with rest. After being unable to gift a partly used prophet I just thought that this has been changed as well.

I believe I planted 2 GS, and burned all for tech but the last one as a gift for CS influence. Every other GP was gifted, I had 0 tourism. :lol:

Same deal here apart from using artists for GAs; 1st own GW came at T300+ as I was too lazy to walk.

Shaka is annoyingly interesting neighbour as he's the only opponent that can radically change the original game. Usually highly successful proxy but really scary when his interest turns to oneself.
I still feel that Impi is OP whichever way one looks at it - the 3rd movement point is a bit too much.
 
...I know Peddroelm is taking a break from civ right now, but his honor/commerce domination strategy would be an interesting watch.

I will give it a try - but I'm not very hopefull - my honor strategy delays military power past turn 100 . Vs some AIs with favorable terrain you can keep a small burning war with them to prevent them to grow to strong until you are ready to attack - keeping a war with medieval Shaka with unupgraded units on that terrain sounds suicidal ... Keeping him at peace (diplomacy) might not be entirely up to me (shaka dows too early - game over) - and even if I make it to upgrated units (ready to DOW) the terrain is not very rich(hammers/luxuries/strategics - I won't not have a huge army) the fight could still be lost even with upgraded LS + XBows and knights ...

Will need 3 cities to get enough army (unitcap) - and keeping the peace with 3 cities might not be an option ...

Think the best unit counter for impis in their time period are galeas but the map (sweden/zulu) isn't quite set up in the ideal way for galeases..
 
I will give it a try - but I'm not very hopefull - my honor strategy delays military power past turn 100 . Vs some AIs with favorable terrain you can keep a small burning war with them to prevent them to grow to strong until you are ready to attack - keeping a war with medieval Shaka with unupgraded units on that terrain sounds suicidal ... Keeping him at peace (diplomacy) might not be entirely up to me (shaka dows too early - game over) - and even if I make it to upgrated units (ready to DOW) the terrain is not very rich(hammers/luxuries/strategics - I won't not have a huge army) the fight could still be lost even with upgraded LS + XBows and knights ...

Will need 3 cities to get enough army (unitcap) - and keeping the peace with 3 cities might not be an option ...

Think the best unit counter for impis in their time period are galeas but the map (sweden/zulu) isn't quite set up in the ideal way for galeases..

You make some good points, but it I think it would be a fun watch...even if you do lose your capital early.
 
You make some good points, but it I think it would be a fun watch...even if you do lose your capital early.

link

Game is almost done - no fast finish time tho:( T314) ... No tourism (gifted early writters/artist) .. Win via 40+ tanks flood .. Uploading will take a while since I'll need to re-record sound on some episodes that gat corrupted sound ...

Spoiler :

settled capital lower on the coast on furs to get 3 whales and 2 fish in range
gifted first gg from honor to ife to get patheon (also got religion - picked 15% production for capital it stuck the whole game)
patheon was +1 hammer per workboat

stole 2 workers from darius and 1 from zulu , no CS dow .

second city was also on coast ( cargo ship exchange with capital ) - kilimanjaro

Plan was to stick to coast so I could use galleas for defence in case impi flood - and it did kind of work ...

took me a long while to get up all those workboats ...

Third city was near mountain with 2 truffles after late NC - I fed it poorly and it was behind most of the game - got me Neusvenstein eventually ...

Shaka kept me in my low science corner up to ~T190 (artilery) ...
Then darius kept me at bay with huge army and airforce until I got landhips (~ T250 ?)

Then fell Austria, Shoshone, Theo (had berlin from darius) and finally Paris ...
 
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