Nighthawk419
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2011
- Messages
- 4,321
Hello and welcome to the tracking thread for a fun little Civ IV project Im getting ready to do involving the always popular Earth 18 scenario.
Ive always loved playing this map, however I struggle to actually finish games that I start in single player. Im generally a PBEM guy, which involves taking 1 turn at a time over many years to finish games, so the fast pace of single player tends to leave me making constant bad decisions. Even when I start winning it quickly get to the point of well I can finish this game easily and I give up. My longest game on this map involved Immortal rushing with Persia (my favorite obviously) and taking the Arabs, India and half of China before my economy stalled. I also ran out of time on that session once I started repairing the economy. Going back to a single player game where I had a massive empire but forgot what my master plan was other than attack everyone bored me. And frankly after dealing with humans, AI diplomacy is the definition of boring.
However Ive been wanting to play out a game on this map and see the whole thing; I havent cheated yet and opened up worldbuilder. Plus worldbuilder isnt as fun as actually playing out the game and seeing what the land can really do for you. But I wanted to do it in a way thats a slower pace and documenting my adventures in a thread should spark some interesting discussion. Heres the plan:
I will be playing as *all* 18 civs! Thats right, a single player hot-seat game playing against myself with all of the 18 civs to do a very detailed comparison of their positions and gameplay. Of course with such a situation there have to be some rules, some to be able to play against myself and not cheat, and some just for fun. Here they are:
1) Settle in place: This is one of the fun rules. I am going to attempt to be slightly historically accurate, at least to the best of my knowledge, so each capital will be in place, for good or for bad. No moving Inca to the coast or the Mali out of the desert.
2) No first warrior rushes: This is talked about as a strategy mainly in Europe where all the civs are squeezed and you can easily take a capital or two without even fighting. But if I do that, in theory Id do that with multiple civs and Id end up with the Roman empire having Berlin, the German empire having Paris and the French empire having Rome. Im going to pretend like Im playing other humans who might do this against me (rather than the AI) and keep any initial warriors in my capital for defense.
3) Other early rushes are acceptable, however I will be generally playing more of a conservative style and loading up on defense as well, so it will have to be well executed and on specific targets and with good reason.
4) Wonders and Religion: All world wonders will be built where they were built in real life and religions will be founded by the civs around where the actual religions were founded. This is an added fun rule for no reason other than to give myself some pre-set decisions and not race myself even when I know I would lose the wonder or lose founding the relision. Plus it gives a little feel of historical context to the game. Also having some of these things forced will cause me to re-think strategies and possible think outside the box.
5) Cities: to the best of my abilities I will name cities to their closest real-life counterparts in the area.
6) Alliances: Generally the theme is every civ for themselves and assumed warring as a FFA. However in certain situations I will attempt to simulate some realistic alliances if necessary. For example, if Germany is starting to take over Europe and France has just 1 city and looking dead in the water, I will probably be willing to have them team up with other smaller civs to fight the big bad neighbor. Eventually due to some tight spaces in the map though, I imagine some civs will probably die off quicker than others the point is that I am attempting to simulate multiplayer play against myself!
7) I will play on normal speed, short 5 turn bursts, with a summary for each civ after each block of turns. Im doing this simply to slow down the game for myself and force me to write in big detail what decisions Im making and why Im making them, down to the micro level. This will be good for my own knowledge (testing new/not often used strategies!) as well as for the novice or even experienced players. A lot of the things talked about will apply to any map or game and be good to better your experience with civ in general, due to the last rule
8) Victory Conditions/Plan: Each leader I will play towards a certain victory condition and plan that the leader would choose for themselves. The general outline is below:
America: Space Race The plan is to expand throughout current North America, try to hold off warring Monty (see below) and eventually tech up and build the space ship. Generally they will follow an isolationist international policy, but wont be afraid to get involved in international issues if it looks like another civ threatens their victory condition. Locally, I imagine they will always be involved in a war with Monty, therefore cant be afraid to go south and take him out in order to win. These guys will go with the standard cottage economy.
Arabia: Domination/Conquest The plan is to control the middle east and then dominate the globe in whatever path is the most feasible. I will also attempt to run a spy economy with these guys (to simulate terrorism). If I can find a way to win domination with the Arabs and a spy economy this will truly be an epic guide!
Aztecs: Domination/Conquest Similar to Arabia, they will control central America, expand anywhere there is land and try to control the continent, taking out the U.S. Their focus will be on controlling central America first though. They will run a specialist economy focused on farming, which is relatively historically accurate based on the civilopedia. If they can get the entire western hemisphere then they will take to the seas and find the weakest entrance point into the old world and begin the invasion
China: Space Race Probably Americas biggest space race challenge in the long term, the plan is to control eastern Asia, possibly take out the Mongols if they threaten Chinese dominance, then tech up for the space win. Having a large empire is part of the plan, so some wars are likely. They will go with a traditional cottage economy.
Egypt: Cultural Based on the civilopedia entry, Egyptian culture was its strength, so thats why the victory condition. They will be forced to get the early Pyramids, so thats a good start. Otherwise they need to get 3 cities and turtle up for culture. They will go for the ultimate Pyramids-specialist economy.
England: Space Race Generally they will turtle up on their island and tech for space, but similar to the real life English empire, they will expand wherever possible to have a global presence and probably colonies. A large empire is key for the tech/space race and building the spaceship anyway. They will go for a cottage economy.
French: Cultural This one seems obvious with the industrious leader, but culturally flipping all of Europe is a little tougher when you cant build every wonder. The European nations will need to fight to gain an advantage and get some land, so that will probably happen, but generally the French will be content staying small and going for culture. They will go with a hybrid specialist/cottage economy if possible.
Germany: Conquest/Domination Probably the biggest threat to Europe with the victory condition. Plan is simple: control Europe, then go for England and eventually east into Russia They will run a mix cottage/specialist economy.
Greece: Cultural This is a combo of warring and cultural wins. The goal is to own an empire through the classical era but stop when its a decent size and go for a cultural victory. They will run a specialist economy.
Inca: Domination/Conquest With their start this will be tough (or so I hear, Ive never actually played with their start yet) but still expand into South America, head north and see what happens. They will run a hybrid specialist/cottage economy.
India: Space This would be a good civ to go for the peaceful diplo victory, but since I cant vote independently for a diplo win when I am all the civs, they will go for an eventual space win instead. They will try to control the current day Indian peninsula, then turtle up and go for space. They will run a specialist economy.
Japan: Domination/Conquest Same as all the other domination civs... control the current Japanese island then invade the mainland (either American or Asian) wherever there is weakness! They will run a hybrid specialist/cottage economy.
Mali: Space/Cultural I couldnt really decide between space or culture for these guys, so I went with both. Based on what I read about the terrible Mali starting point, I expect it will be a moot point, but you never know They will run whatever economy I can get to work
Mongolia: Conquest/Domination the same story here. Expand wherever possible and send Keshiks to the weakest points I see to dominate Asia They will run a specialist economy.
Persia: Domination/Conquest/Cultural Generally the first goal is to try and dominate the middle east towards Greece, then find the weakest link to attack. However I wont be afraid to stop the warring with these guys and just enjoy a big empire and go for culture if necessary They will run a specialist economy.
Rome: Domination/Conquest the same goal, except I will try to be historically accurate and control the Mediterranean coasts first, rather than zip straight north into Europe. But once the historical Roman Empire is set up anything is a target! They will run a specialist economy.
Russia: Space Their ultimate goal will be space, however they will also want to control all of current day Russia in Asia and will not be afraid to get involved in international conflicts. I will also go classic cold war communism with these guys when it comes to civics. They will run a cottage economy.
Spain: Cultural Another civ I would have gone for the AP victory with under Isabella, but instead we will look to found Christianity and use that power to turtle up for a cultural victory. They will run a hybrid cottage/specialist economy.
And until I think of more rules for myself, thats it! I will update this as often as I can, however it may only be once a week initially, since Ill be writing about 18 (!!!) different starts and plans. It will be slow moving, but I hope interesting to both myself and any readers/followers!
Lastly, if anyone has any further suggestions feel free to let me know. Im hoping this will be interesting, a bit of a history lesson, definitely a civving lesson for all of us, and overall FUN!
Ive always loved playing this map, however I struggle to actually finish games that I start in single player. Im generally a PBEM guy, which involves taking 1 turn at a time over many years to finish games, so the fast pace of single player tends to leave me making constant bad decisions. Even when I start winning it quickly get to the point of well I can finish this game easily and I give up. My longest game on this map involved Immortal rushing with Persia (my favorite obviously) and taking the Arabs, India and half of China before my economy stalled. I also ran out of time on that session once I started repairing the economy. Going back to a single player game where I had a massive empire but forgot what my master plan was other than attack everyone bored me. And frankly after dealing with humans, AI diplomacy is the definition of boring.
However Ive been wanting to play out a game on this map and see the whole thing; I havent cheated yet and opened up worldbuilder. Plus worldbuilder isnt as fun as actually playing out the game and seeing what the land can really do for you. But I wanted to do it in a way thats a slower pace and documenting my adventures in a thread should spark some interesting discussion. Heres the plan:
I will be playing as *all* 18 civs! Thats right, a single player hot-seat game playing against myself with all of the 18 civs to do a very detailed comparison of their positions and gameplay. Of course with such a situation there have to be some rules, some to be able to play against myself and not cheat, and some just for fun. Here they are:
1) Settle in place: This is one of the fun rules. I am going to attempt to be slightly historically accurate, at least to the best of my knowledge, so each capital will be in place, for good or for bad. No moving Inca to the coast or the Mali out of the desert.
2) No first warrior rushes: This is talked about as a strategy mainly in Europe where all the civs are squeezed and you can easily take a capital or two without even fighting. But if I do that, in theory Id do that with multiple civs and Id end up with the Roman empire having Berlin, the German empire having Paris and the French empire having Rome. Im going to pretend like Im playing other humans who might do this against me (rather than the AI) and keep any initial warriors in my capital for defense.
3) Other early rushes are acceptable, however I will be generally playing more of a conservative style and loading up on defense as well, so it will have to be well executed and on specific targets and with good reason.
4) Wonders and Religion: All world wonders will be built where they were built in real life and religions will be founded by the civs around where the actual religions were founded. This is an added fun rule for no reason other than to give myself some pre-set decisions and not race myself even when I know I would lose the wonder or lose founding the relision. Plus it gives a little feel of historical context to the game. Also having some of these things forced will cause me to re-think strategies and possible think outside the box.
5) Cities: to the best of my abilities I will name cities to their closest real-life counterparts in the area.
6) Alliances: Generally the theme is every civ for themselves and assumed warring as a FFA. However in certain situations I will attempt to simulate some realistic alliances if necessary. For example, if Germany is starting to take over Europe and France has just 1 city and looking dead in the water, I will probably be willing to have them team up with other smaller civs to fight the big bad neighbor. Eventually due to some tight spaces in the map though, I imagine some civs will probably die off quicker than others the point is that I am attempting to simulate multiplayer play against myself!
7) I will play on normal speed, short 5 turn bursts, with a summary for each civ after each block of turns. Im doing this simply to slow down the game for myself and force me to write in big detail what decisions Im making and why Im making them, down to the micro level. This will be good for my own knowledge (testing new/not often used strategies!) as well as for the novice or even experienced players. A lot of the things talked about will apply to any map or game and be good to better your experience with civ in general, due to the last rule
8) Victory Conditions/Plan: Each leader I will play towards a certain victory condition and plan that the leader would choose for themselves. The general outline is below:
America: Space Race The plan is to expand throughout current North America, try to hold off warring Monty (see below) and eventually tech up and build the space ship. Generally they will follow an isolationist international policy, but wont be afraid to get involved in international issues if it looks like another civ threatens their victory condition. Locally, I imagine they will always be involved in a war with Monty, therefore cant be afraid to go south and take him out in order to win. These guys will go with the standard cottage economy.
Arabia: Domination/Conquest The plan is to control the middle east and then dominate the globe in whatever path is the most feasible. I will also attempt to run a spy economy with these guys (to simulate terrorism). If I can find a way to win domination with the Arabs and a spy economy this will truly be an epic guide!
Aztecs: Domination/Conquest Similar to Arabia, they will control central America, expand anywhere there is land and try to control the continent, taking out the U.S. Their focus will be on controlling central America first though. They will run a specialist economy focused on farming, which is relatively historically accurate based on the civilopedia. If they can get the entire western hemisphere then they will take to the seas and find the weakest entrance point into the old world and begin the invasion
China: Space Race Probably Americas biggest space race challenge in the long term, the plan is to control eastern Asia, possibly take out the Mongols if they threaten Chinese dominance, then tech up for the space win. Having a large empire is part of the plan, so some wars are likely. They will go with a traditional cottage economy.
Egypt: Cultural Based on the civilopedia entry, Egyptian culture was its strength, so thats why the victory condition. They will be forced to get the early Pyramids, so thats a good start. Otherwise they need to get 3 cities and turtle up for culture. They will go for the ultimate Pyramids-specialist economy.
England: Space Race Generally they will turtle up on their island and tech for space, but similar to the real life English empire, they will expand wherever possible to have a global presence and probably colonies. A large empire is key for the tech/space race and building the spaceship anyway. They will go for a cottage economy.
French: Cultural This one seems obvious with the industrious leader, but culturally flipping all of Europe is a little tougher when you cant build every wonder. The European nations will need to fight to gain an advantage and get some land, so that will probably happen, but generally the French will be content staying small and going for culture. They will go with a hybrid specialist/cottage economy if possible.
Germany: Conquest/Domination Probably the biggest threat to Europe with the victory condition. Plan is simple: control Europe, then go for England and eventually east into Russia They will run a mix cottage/specialist economy.
Greece: Cultural This is a combo of warring and cultural wins. The goal is to own an empire through the classical era but stop when its a decent size and go for a cultural victory. They will run a specialist economy.
Inca: Domination/Conquest With their start this will be tough (or so I hear, Ive never actually played with their start yet) but still expand into South America, head north and see what happens. They will run a hybrid specialist/cottage economy.
India: Space This would be a good civ to go for the peaceful diplo victory, but since I cant vote independently for a diplo win when I am all the civs, they will go for an eventual space win instead. They will try to control the current day Indian peninsula, then turtle up and go for space. They will run a specialist economy.
Japan: Domination/Conquest Same as all the other domination civs... control the current Japanese island then invade the mainland (either American or Asian) wherever there is weakness! They will run a hybrid specialist/cottage economy.
Mali: Space/Cultural I couldnt really decide between space or culture for these guys, so I went with both. Based on what I read about the terrible Mali starting point, I expect it will be a moot point, but you never know They will run whatever economy I can get to work
Mongolia: Conquest/Domination the same story here. Expand wherever possible and send Keshiks to the weakest points I see to dominate Asia They will run a specialist economy.
Persia: Domination/Conquest/Cultural Generally the first goal is to try and dominate the middle east towards Greece, then find the weakest link to attack. However I wont be afraid to stop the warring with these guys and just enjoy a big empire and go for culture if necessary They will run a specialist economy.
Rome: Domination/Conquest the same goal, except I will try to be historically accurate and control the Mediterranean coasts first, rather than zip straight north into Europe. But once the historical Roman Empire is set up anything is a target! They will run a specialist economy.
Russia: Space Their ultimate goal will be space, however they will also want to control all of current day Russia in Asia and will not be afraid to get involved in international conflicts. I will also go classic cold war communism with these guys when it comes to civics. They will run a cottage economy.
Spain: Cultural Another civ I would have gone for the AP victory with under Isabella, but instead we will look to found Christianity and use that power to turtle up for a cultural victory. They will run a hybrid cottage/specialist economy.
And until I think of more rules for myself, thats it! I will update this as often as I can, however it may only be once a week initially, since Ill be writing about 18 (!!!) different starts and plans. It will be slow moving, but I hope interesting to both myself and any readers/followers!
Lastly, if anyone has any further suggestions feel free to let me know. Im hoping this will be interesting, a bit of a history lesson, definitely a civving lesson for all of us, and overall FUN!
