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The Emperor Series #02: Washington

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gwaja, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    @vranasm,

    Spoiler :
    I probably could have lived without the Pyramids to be honest. I haven't really taken advantage of Representation as much as I would have liked to, because my largest population cities have been whipping a bit, and have not been running as many scientists as I would have liked to. But, as you will see soon on my update, the Pyramids actually got me a Great Engineer for my 1st GP. And since I prefer to put the Great Library in my GP Farm which has painfully low :hammers: production, it was a no brainer to save him for this purpose.

    I wasn't even the first one to Literature, and I got beat to Music by Louis (which is predictable whenever he is in the game), but I think I am okay.

    I did trade for Monarchy though because I wanted to take as much advantage of tech trades as I can and open up the path towards Feudalism --> Guilds --> Banking route.


    Nice video by the way! Definitely deferring quite a bit from my play.

    @Capellan,

    Spoiler :
    Looks like you went quite far into the Modern Age. Can't really comment since I don't have anything to go by in the means of screen shots or saves, but how did the game end for you? You said economic hit? What happened? Did you get dragged into a long war?


    I will be putting up TES #03 Asoka next Friday. It will be a lot different from this one, for sure. ^_^
     
  2. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Okay, another update to Turn 139 @ 580 AD: As always, criticisms, questions, and comments are much appreciated!

    Spoiler :
    I must be really dumb, I gotta admit, because I forgot to switch to Representation immediately after building the Pyramids. How could I forget that? Well, that's what happens when you are playing this game and doing multiple other things at the same time! Don't be like me and don't do it! ^_^

    Anyways, as suggested, I opened borders with Genghis immediately, and sent my already existing workboat toward his territory to explore the map. New York also switched production out of Temple of Artemis and went back to producing workers.

    Hinduism was promptly founded next turn, and 4 turns after that, the Temple of Artemis was founded in a distant land. For my efforts, I got a nice chunk of cash for fail gold.

    A couple of turns later, I finished Alphabet:

    Spoiler :


    Lately, I have been going for Alphabet instead of Aesthetics after Writing. It was sort of a gamble because at that time, I only knew Genghis and had yet to meet anyone else. Whether this comes back to bite me is yet to be seen, but I had my eyes towards Currency and Code of Laws as soon as possible.

    On Turn 111 @ 100 BC, I founded my next city:

    Spoiler :


    This is a great place for a GP Farm. The only problem is that this place is lacking so much in hammer production until I can put some workshops. But slavery will make this place pretty decent for a while to whip out some infrastructures and running a couple of scientists at least. It would be nice to have the Great Library here, but with so little hammer production and no marble, it was looking rather unlikely.

    On the next turn, as my workboat sailed past the Mongolian waters, I met my next neighbor:

    Spoiler :


    Strange that he didn't found a religion. There must be other religious fanatics on this map. He is right next door to Genghis on the same continent, so my hope was that they would hate each other's guts enough to get into a long series of wars.

    On Turn 113 @ 50 BC, I popped my 1st Great Person. And it was rather a surprise:

    Spoiler :


    A Great Engineer! Jeez... what will I do with him, I wonder? Does instant Great Library sound good to anyone, in the GP Farm of all places? A Great Scientist would have been great, but I will take this guy no problem! ^_^

    A few more turns pass by, and my exploring workboat found another AI, this time on another continent that is not too far from the one occupied by Genghis and Justinian:

    Spoiler :


    Giggles is Christian, and he too, didn't found a religion, it seems. I mean, 4 religions have already been founded at this point, and I have not met anyone who founded a religion. This is strange.

    On Turn 117 @ 50 AD, I got my next desired tech:

    Spoiler :


    Since I had the Great Lighthouse, getting an extra trade route just as I am meeting more AI is becoming more profitable for me. At this point, I had a nice monopoly on this tech as well. Most importantly, now I can tech Code of Laws, which nobody was willing to trade.

    By the way, on this very same turn, the first war broke out on this map, and it was just the one I was hoping for:

    Spoiler :


    Genghis converted to Confucianism a few turns earlier, and yet, he still hated his Confucian brother Justinian enough to declare war on him. I saw him getting into war mode, but I was sure that he would rather wage war on the same continent rather than trying to cross the waters to invade me.

    By the way, the Kashi Vishwanath was built in the far away land.

    Anyways, time for some tech trades now:

    Spoiler :


    Justinian was the only one willing to trade Mathematics at this point, and I knew that Genghis had Iron Working available for trade. Having Currency helps so much in deals like this. Without it, I wouldn't have gotten a good deal out of this one, or this next one for that matter:

    Spoiler :


    Usually, I don't like taking cheap techs from the AI in a trade, but call me lazy. I don't want to self tech Meditation, which I need for Philosophy sooner or later.

    Getting Iron Working also revealed 2 Iron sources on my continent, one of which popped right next to New York:

    Spoiler :


    Nice! That city could use more hammers too. It's funny because that spot where Iron popped was the very spot I was contemplating on putting New York. I am glad things turned out this way.

    Anyways, on Turn 119 @ 100 AD, Taoism was founded. It looks like someone just got Theology. That leaves only 2 more religions yet to be founded, most likely from Philosophy and definitely from Divine Right.

    Next turn, I met another neighbor, whom I wasn't too surprised to see:

    Spoiler :


    There had to be a religious fanatic or two on this map, since I had yet to meet anyone who founded a religion. She shares the same continent as Justinian and Genghis. That continent is beginning to look very big indeed.

    On Turn 123 @ 200 AD, the Apostolic Palace was built under Islam. Now it was only 4 turns earlier that Theocracy was founded by someone, so this means that most likely, a Great Engineer was used to rush this wonder. I wonder who that might be... perhaps Sal?

    Also, on this same turn, I finished Code of Laws, and immediately set my research to Civil Service.

    Meanwhile, Justinian contacted me and made it clear that he just doesn't like the warmongering Mongol next door to him:

    Spoiler :


    No wars for me. Besides Genghis is my only neighbor right next door that I have to worry about. So no thanks!

    A few turns later, I made some tech trades, first with Gilgamesh:

    Spoiler :


    Now why in the world would I trade for Horseback Riding? Well, that's because I made this deal the turn after:

    Spoiler :


    I had a whole bunch of spices on my continent, and I wanted to enable them so that I can use it, as well as getting access to another resource that I can trade. Monotheism is a cheap tech at this point, but it leads to Monarchy --> Feudalism --> Guilds, so I thought it was worth trading for.

    In addition, this could help Justinian keep Genghis in check! ^_^

    On this very same turn, I settled my next city:

    Spoiler :


    It's actually on a riverside plains tile with 2 floodplains, some hills, and the rice that I can work once I get a border pop from Atlanta, the future GP farm. Since Atlanta already has 3 other food resources that can only be worked by it, the rice can be worked in this new city, making it a decent place.

    Next turn, I founded another city:

    Spoiler :


    Not too fond of the city location, this was the best place I can think of. It's only got one hill for hammer production, but at least it can work the whale later. Still, I am really beginning to crave for workshops.

    Another tech trade:

    Spoiler :


    Obviously I don't need Monarchy, but it is the path to Feudalism --> Guilds, and this was the only tech trade that made any sense at all.

    The next turn, Izzy, who had the monopoly on Metal Casting, completed the Colossus:

    Spoiler :


    Even then, she still wasn't willing to trade it, since she still had the monopoly on it.

    A couple of turns later, the Parthenon was built somewhere. I am not sure, but it could be Gilgamesh. At that time, he was the only AI that I have met who had the monopoly on Aesthetics. But of course, I realized that this may not really be the case, soon enough.

    By the way, on this same turn, I settled another city, this time to the north:

    Spoiler :


    I have a whole lot of fish! Maybe Sid's Sushi might make some sense later in the game, perhaps? I mean, the only grain food resource I have happens to be rice too! Anyways, it is nice to not worry about a border pop to work the fish, thanks to some good culture production from New York.

    Next turn, my exploring workboat found another AI:

    Spoiler :


    Did I tell you guys that I hate this guy? He is the founder of Islam, and the builder of the Apostolic Palace most likely. And it turns out that he already had Aesthetics and Literature already. Maybe he built the Parthenon. Regardless, if I don't hurry to Literature soon, I may just lose the Great Library. And I might as well kiss the free Great Artist from Music, thanks to this annoying dude.

    A turn pass by, and Izzy decides to give me a threatening pose:

    Spoiler :


    Um... you are very far away, and therefore no threat to me. You also have a worst enemy, so why would I give into your demand? You can go shove it!

    On Turn 133 @ 450 AD, I finally finished Civil Service:

    Spoiler :


    At this point, I realized that nobody was going to trade me Aesthetics. Since I still had that Great Engineer sleeping in my capital city, I should get to Literature as soon as possible and get that Great Library built. I certainly don't want that annoying Louis grabbing another wonder that I desire a lot. That would make me really upset. So, I chose Aesthetics as my next tech.

    On this very same turn, the Kong Miao was built somewhere far away, as I made the civics change, converting into Bureaucracy and Organized Religion. Slavery will have to stay for now, because I just don't have any use for Caste System just yet.

    Spoiler :


    Now please don't laugh here, because what I did here is really stupid. I am sure you know exactly what I mean. If you are not sure why, read on further. ^_^

    As my exploring workboat neared the tip of the large continent that housed all the other AI except Giggles, I finally met the last of the AI:

    Spoiler :


    Well, hello there! Lots of worst enemies all around! Tell me this... why did Firaxis switch the leader picture between Kublai Khan and Qin Shi Huang? To me, this new change doesn't fit them. I think the old way fit them better. Oh well.

    Another couple of turns pass by. And this time, it is that stinking annoying Louis who thinks he's got some muscles to flex:

    Spoiler :


    You are even farther away from me than Izzy, you have already taken Music for free Great Artist that I always desire, and you are one of the most hated, annoying AI in my book. So why should I give you a tech? Again, go shove it! You will die for making this demand later.

    On Turn 136 @ 520 AD, the Mausoleum of Maussallos was built in the distant land. Oh well... if I had marble, I would have tried for this. At least it never expires, which means I can always capture it later.

    On the following turn, Justinian came knocking on my door, seeking a war ally against Genghis:

    Spoiler :


    Sure! I will go ahead and declare war on the only neighbor that I need to worry about, who just happens to be one of the most aggressive AI in this game! Sign me up! Uh... NO!! REALLY??? ^_^

    Anyways, Aesthetics was done on this turn, and I went for Literature. A quick research of only 2 turns anyway, and nobody wanted to trade it.

    So, on Turn 139 @ 580 AD, Literature is finished, and now I come to a stop for this update, as I need to decide where to set my tech path towards.

    Diplo Situation: Izzy, the founder of Christianity, only has 1 friend, Giggles, who is on another continent, while everyone else is running a different religion. And I happen to be the only Pagan. Wait, now why am I running Organized Religion when I don't even have a religion? GAH!! Remember back when I got Civil Service and said that my civics change was really stupid? That's the reason why! ^_^

    Meanwhile, our next door neighbor, Genghis is also hated very much by Izzy and Justinian. That war between Mongolia and Byzantine is still going on, with apparently not much success from either side. You might think that a unit spammer with the highest unit prob in the game will have some good war success, but as of this moment, Justinian still has 9 cities, while Genghis is held in check with only 5 cities.

    The other noticeable thing diplomatically is that Louis and Qin Shi Huang absolutely adore each other.... I guess it must be a thing between the 2 wonder lovers.

    Spoiler :


    Techs: Jeez... does anyone have anything interesting available for trade? I guess I could sell a tech or two to certain AIs, but I want to avoid those "You traded with our worst enemy!" demerit as much as possible.

    And that annoying Louis... he soundly beat me to Music! And I bet he is working on the Sistine Chapel as we speak!

    Another thing of note is that Izzy still has the monopoly on Metal Casting, which she probably took from building the Oracle.

    Spoiler :


    Map of the North & South:

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    I am 4 turns away from popping a Great Scientist. It's been a slow going with popping Great People. I am sure I could have done a lot better in this regard. At least I have a Great Engineer available to rush the Great Library now that I have Literature. And again, I am smacking myself in the head for running Organized Religion with no state religion! GAH!!

    As for research path, I am unsure as to where to go. I could go directly to Paper --> Education --> Liberalism route now. I could go for Metal Casting now as an alternative to put down a few workshops in cities that badly lack hammer production, since Izzy still has the monopoly on it and will not trade it. I could also think about self researching Philosophy and gain access to Pacifism as well as a religion, though I will definitely not convert to it.

    Most of the time, I usually bulb Philosophy, but since I don't even have a single academy built yet (which is just very very bad for this late into the game), I don't really want to bulb Philosophy. At least, I am hopeful that now that my GP farm has a library set up as well as the Great Library that I can build from the Great Engineer, my GP point production should go up relatively well.

    As for cities, I only have room to put down 1 more city in the south, as you saw it with "C" marker in the map of the south.

    Some courthouses have been built and are in production to reduce maintenance cost and increase my Espionage Points while I am still running Slavery. Eventually, I would like to get into Caste System to fully utilize my GP farm with 3 food resources all to itself. ^_^ This also means that I just might make getting Guilds as early as possible a priority to make up for my hammer deficiencies in some cities, though that would really sidetrack me away from Liberalism path at this point.


    More updates to come soon, I hope! ^_^ Thank you for reading! Throw me a question or a comment or two!

    Save file available HERE!
     
  3. Capellan

    Capellan Is this thing on?

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    338
    @Gwaya
    Spoiler :

    Gilgamesh landed about 18 artillery, SAM Inf and Rifles. I had Infantry, but not enough of them to clean him out quickly, and I lost my best commerce city in the attack (I saw it coming, but only a turn before it happened, and I couldn't rush my troops to the location in time to prevent the loss of a coastal site).

    But it was a useful learning game. I took a break between winning Lib and playing the next section and when I came back and looked at my cities, it was easy to see some of the mistakes I'd made: things I might not have caught if I'd been just playing through.
     
  4. dualmaster

    dualmaster Emperor

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    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    @Gwaja
    Spoiler :

    Can't open the save right now to check the whole diplo situation, but you should probably have given in to those demands. Giving Isabella fish (which you can cancel 10 turns later) doesn't really help her at all but it gives you free diplo points. Giving HBR to Louis also doesn't matter much and gains you quite a bit of diplo (+1 for giving help, and potentially some points for fair trade). It's not an important tech so why not give it away?

    The benefit comes later. If you can get an AI to pleased you can often start begging chunks of gold from them throughout the game (don't demand it, but "Could you spare this for a good friend"). It also makes you less likely to become a war target in the future.

    Basically, gaining some diplo points is worth more than some simple techs or resources.
     
  5. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @dualmaster,

    Spoiler :
    I am not too clear on "You have traded with our worst enemies!" diplo demerit, but it seems every time I give into demands from someone who has a worst enemy or two, I always seem to get diplo penalty from the other AI who are worst enemies of the AI that made the demand. It does seem to dissipate over time and go away, however.

    You are absolutely right that giving up a spare fish and a tech like Horseback Riding isn't such a big deal, but with Izzy, she had 2 worst enemies, and as for Louis, I just don't like him at all.

    And what is this "1st Impression is a lasting one" demerit that I am getting ever since I installed BULL?

    Anyway, my logic was that by the time I get to a point where I have to worry about invasions from Izzy or Louis, I should be in a good position to win the game. But then again, it could pose problems for tech trades later I guess. It remains to be seen.


    @Capellan,

    Spoiler :
    It sounds like you had a rough game. At least it was educational for you, so that's good. I lost my first Emperor game rather miserably as well. Hopefully you will have much better success with Asoka! ^_^
     
  6. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @dualmaster on your 1 AD report:

    Spoiler :
    Great job on getting the Great Lighthouse! I am assuming you had it built in your 2nd city, correct? I also had a monopoly on Currency, but I couldn't really trade it because nobody had anything good to trade. It certainly helps a lot to have early Currency on top of the Great Lighthouse! Also makes the early tech trades much easier. ^_^

    No Metal Casting from anyone... very interesting. Personally I have never bulbed it, but getting the Colossus on this map would be an absolute joy. I missed out on it unfortunately, but maybe you can pull it off.

    The lack of :) resources bother me a bit as well. I am running Representation instead, so it could become an issue later on.

    On your city placement: Why did you not build Seattle 1S of where it is? It could have had fresh water bonus, and you don't lose any resources either. Also, I am curious about Atlanta as well. You could have grabbed the whale in the 2nd culture ring. It is not like there was no food workable without a border pop, since there is a sheep that can be worked right away without a border pop.
     
  7. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

    Joined:
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    1,181
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    @ Gwaja
    Spoiler :
    I would bulb philosophy if Taoism has not been founded by the time the GS pops. Since you do not have any religion, caste system/pacifism won't be as useful. You can always adopt Taoism at the beginning of a golden age and then switch back to no state religion at the end (if your AI relations are worrisome). I really think you should start building your GP farm's pop as quickly as possible. From the looks of the tech race, I would say go towards banking (maybe get Paper first to be safe). I think you have time, especially if you can get another GS to partially bulb Education.

    The other option would be to hope a religion spreads to you in time for your first golden age. In that case, self teching Philosophy would be better.
     
  8. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    BULL shows the hidden AI modifiers that are not displayed in the base game. Since they affect diplomacy, IMO, Firaxis should have given the player that information to begin with. Probably the reason for that feature being implemented by BULL.
     
  9. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @Jester Fool,

    Spoiler :
    I am sure you had a good laugh when I stupidly converted into Organized Religion with ZERO religion whatsoever. I am not sure what I was thinking there.

    You are right... without a state religion, going Caste System and Pacifism is absolutely useless. I am not too optimistic about religion spreading to me either... it is so random. Being on the edge of the map doesn't really help me either. So bulbing Philosophy and getting a religion for myself might make some sense, but then I am also in bad need of getting at least 1 academy.

    Good point on switching in and out of religion during Golden Age though. I will consider it.

    The problem with going the Banking route via Feudalism --> Guilds is that AI are so fond of going that route. I almost always trade for Feudalism later. It's not like I am going to get immediate benefit from Feudalism right away since I won't be warring yet and I have no real need to build longbows at that. However, getting Guilds as early as possible is desired, especially considering the lack of hammers on my cities.

    So basically, I am still undecided.
     
  10. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    That probably explains why, before getting BULL, that some AI were friendly at +10 and some were only pleased at +10.

    But what does that First Impression thing really mean? How does the game determine whether you get a bonus or demerit? Does it have anything to do with diplomatic mechanics between the AI? Like how warmongers like each other, and do not like peaceful leaders, and vice versa?
     
  11. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    Unless I am horribly mistaken, you are absolutely correct. I do think there is some randomness to it (the dreaded RNG :lol:) but for the most part it seems to follow that pattern.
     
  12. Nick Carpathia

    Nick Carpathia Unleash the HAARP

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    There are two different diplomatic demerits: "-x You refused to stop trading with our worse enemies!" and "-x You have traded with our worse enemies!".

    "-x You refused to stop trading with our worse enemies!" applies when you have an ongoing trade with civilization X, who happens to be the worse enemy of civilization Y. Examples include resource trades, gold-per-turn trades, and even open borders. Civilization Y can now demand you break all these trades, and every time you refuse, you get a -1 demerit with civilization Y. You can avoid this by not having any continuous trades with someone hated by many.

    "-x You have traded with our worse enemies!" applies when you make a one-off trade with someone who has worse enemies. This includes things like world maps, golds, and of course, technologies. The magnitude depends on the one-sidedness of the trade, which is dependent on the gold-value of that tech. Due to the nature of the diplomacy AI, where you always give the AI more than they give you, it's very easy to hit this effect. For instance, if you sell say Monotheism for 100g, you might not trip it. On the other hand, if you sell Nationalism for 200g, or trade Education for Feudalism, then there's a good chance you'll get a -4 demerit for that. You can somewhat avoid this by balancing trades with gold, so that the trades are as equal as possible.
     
  13. dualmaster

    dualmaster Emperor

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    @Gwaja
    Spoiler :

    Regarding demands: I'm almost certain that you can't get "traded with our worst enemies" demerit for resource trades. So giving Izzy the fish wouldn't have mattered. But you're thinking along the right lines....if she had demanded a tech with two worst enemies then it's better to deny her.

    As for Louis, the "better" move would be to give him the tech. But "I just don't like him" is very reasonable from a fun standpoint. I had a game last week where Elizabeth backstabbed me early on. I could have just won the game peacefully via space, but I nuked her azz ;).

    Great job on getting the Great Lighthouse! I am assuming you had it built in your 2nd city, correct? I also had a monopoly on Currency, but I couldn't really trade it because nobody had anything good to trade. It certainly helps a lot to have early Currency on top of the Great Lighthouse! Also makes the early tech trades much easier. ^_^

    In my second report, you'll find out that this plan didn't work out...

    Be sure to be trading for :) resources and you should do okay. And don't forget the monuments...

    Seattle 1S is arguably a better location. The fresh water bonus isn't a big deal, but it could help with working cottages for the capital until the capital can work them. Where mine is, it ends up with a lot of lousy ocean tiles.

    Atlanta: I never found my cities specifically to pick up whales. Whales usually come fairly late (I rarely go optics early). Founding Atlanta to pick up the whales would mean a lot more ocean tiles in the BFC only to gain an okay whales tile that can't even be improved for a long time. So I put the city where it would have more land tiles. It also has access to the inland lake which with a lighthouse provides 3:food: making it an ok tile. That lake tile could have been worked by the city to the north (next to the spices) but I hadn't planned ahead for that one. Overall I don't think it is that important. But given the choice I always opt for more land tiles that coast/ocean.
     
  14. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @Jester Fool,

    Too many randomness that I cannot see... ^_^ Oh well, I guess I will just have to deal with it. It will be nice to know the mechanics behind that though.

    @Nick Carpathia,

    I knew the distinction between the 2 penalty types, but I did NOT know about the magnitude of the penalty as to how equal the trade was between me and the AI. That is a very helpful information. Thank you for the clarification! ^_^

    Does the "You have traded with our worst enemy" diplo penalty dissipate and disappear over time? If I remember correctly from past games, I might have seen it disappear after a while. Or am I mistaken about that? Also, is this penalty applied to resource trades as well?

    @dualmaster,

    Spoiler :
    Ah... I did not know that the "worst enemy" diplo penalty might not apply to resource trades. Again, giving up the fish for 10 turns is no big deal, but I wasn't sure if I was going to hit that nasty penalty from AI that don't like her.

    As for Louis, if I get a chance to do so, I always try to destroy him. He just gets on my nerves. It is a different type of dislike than the ones toward warmongers. But at any rate, I don't think he had any worst enemies, so it probably would have made sense to give him a junk tech like Horseback Riding, which I did not even research it myself.

    And yes, monuments galore! I think I even built one in my capital. I only do that if I am playing a Charismatic leader. So far though, not many happiness resources I can trade for at the moment, which sucks.

    I have yet to look at your 2nd report, since I haven't gotten there yet. Guess someone beat you to the Colossus?

    You make a good point on building a city where it works more land tiles than coast/ocean tiles. For your Atlanta, it was purely just for the whales I suppose. Since I lack happiness resources on my continent, every bit helps in that regard. But you are right... by placing it 1S of the sheep, you are just working too many coast/ocean tiles. Maybe if we have Colossus, it might not be that bad, but apparently none of us ended up having it.
     
  15. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    @gwaja
    Spoiler :

    given that you got GLH the city expansion was too slow.

    You got lucky that Izzy didn't throw there red fist immediately. There was high risk involved with low reward. With some odd -1 you traded with our worst enemy you can live for awhile, with red fist turning into war in 10T you can't live that freely, except when you already planned to war that particular AI.

    You should already have an idea how you want to finish the game. I wouldn't go Corps if you want to go war line.

    Btw watch for Gilga he is psycho too and if you look at glance you are not that great off with him. If he comes with demand be sure you will accept. He doesn't like people who don't accept his "offers"

     
  16. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @vranasm,

    Spoiler :
    Absolutely. I could have done much better in city expansion now that every city I have/will have is coastal, and the trade routes alone will pay for maintenance by itself. I am getting there though, with only 1 more spot to plot down another city, and I am set.

    As for Izzy, she is just too far away and on another continent, so I felt that the declaration chance was very low. Had she been right next door to me or something like that, I would have definitely given her the fish for 10 turns and lived with it.

    I mentioned Sid's Sushi only because the resources that I have plenty of happen to be seafood and rice, which are exactly the ones consumed by that corporation. To be honest, I am not too sure what I want to do with this map yet. On one hand, I don't really want a Culture or Space Victory, but on the other hand, I haven't won a game with those victory types for a while. And of course, it's been a very long time since I messed with any kinds of corporations, so I might want to try for it.

    Yes, Giggles is very dangerous. I am just glad he is not next door to me. I actually prefer having Genghis next door than Giggles. At least Genghis is very predictable and techs poorly...

    I will be sure to be a bit more careful in my diplomatic dealings with AI from now on.
     
  17. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Regarding Religion Situation in my game at 580 AD:
    Spoiler :
    Everyone has adopted a religion except for me. The religion spread is dead even, with each of the 3 most dominant religions being adopted by 2 AI each. So there is no clear indication as to which side will be the safest to join. Obviously the two next door neighbors in Justinian and Genghis are running Confucianism, so it may be the safest, but as I have played a few more rounds, Islam spread to me first, which happens to be the Apostolic Palace religion.

    Not sure if I should continue being the only Pagan left on this map or not.
     
  18. LuCiver

    LuCiver Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    267
    RE: Religion

    I'm pretty sure you can still get AP bonus hammers even without being in AP religion (you just don't get full voting rights). build yourself a monastary and spread it around. Your trade routes with the rest of the world depend on keeping open borders with Gil and the mongol- at least until astro- so switching to Islam might not be the best idea right now.

    As for tech path, I would aim for paper->Edu and see how things look in terms of the Lib race at that point. Caste is probably worth it even without Pacifism just to jack up your GP farm at this point, and will improve workshops as well even without guilds.
     
  19. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    True that about the AP bonus hammers. I don't think I have done good enough job with spreading the religion around. What makes it even worse is that it took forever to get a religion, and even after that, there was no auto spreading whatsoever.

    Good point on keeping trade routes with Giggles and Genghis. They are the gateway to all my trade routes, so it is essential that I keep in good relations with them. I will definitely keep this in mind. So far, diplo hasn't been as bad as I anticipated it to be.

    As for tech path, I did just as you suggested, as you will see in the update in the following post. ^_^
     
  20. west45

    west45 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    1872 diplomation

    4000bc-1AD, try #2 after abandoning first time a few days ago.
    Spoiler :
    Moved capitol to pick up more flood plains, overall a good move since it was decent for bureau later on.

    Built GLH 950 BC, and then expanded as fast as I could. GK ended up planting a city on my island after I had whipped my final 4 settlers, really annoying but I did steal its good tiles eventually!

    GK ended up building the mids and of course going into police state. He went into war mode many times, with some begging for gold I was able to stay out of it.

    The tech situation is laughable, I can't understand how izzy is so far behind (and she will be the whole game with nearly a dozen cities)
    Spoiler :












    1230AD Lib to finish

    Spoiler :
    The usual lib mil trad to stomp some neighboors. In the screenshot it shows justininian will trade mil trad, I didn't notice until later.

    Starved 4 merchants (3x1700 mission to gilgs cap) and swapped civics during GA while making cuirs. I wanted to try out caste guilds workshops instead of whip, along with dual xp civics (its great with stables and charismatic). For this kind of war I like to whip my cities bloody and have them regrow in time for the democracy civics and state property. Slow building cuirs and cavs didn't work out too well I think (might be due to lack of tiles to workshop? I used much less cottages than I usually have...).

    GK's cap was quite the prize.. mids, scotland yard, 4 GG's and settled priest/engi. Unfortunately his other cities were complete garbage, justin capped the only good one.

    I captured 7 of justins cities and capped him after since he already had rifling and I didn't have airships yet.

    Once the war was over I used a 2nd GA to get factories up quicker and some much needed civic swaps (US, bureau, state property, emancipation). Starved 2 more GP for a third GA later. I teched towards combustion, flight, industrialism and started assembling my stack of doom. Izzy p-vassaled to me at some point because she was so backwards.

    Gilgamesh capped after 3 cities, loius after 1 (talk about overkill). I begged 1 gold off qin before attacking louis out of habit, and couldn't go after him for 6 turns. took the quick way out and went diplomation.

    Spoiler :




















     

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